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Theme Changer

 Topic: The Quran is wrong [Embryology]

 (Read 16821 times)
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  • The Quran is wrong [Embryology]
     OP - June 20, 2011, 03:51 PM

    Hello,

    You've all probably seen Hamza Tzortzis and Adnan Rashid with PZ Myers at the convention.
    In case you haven't, or need a reminder, here's the clip summarizing the best fails.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msOlpj886H4

    Summary
    1) Adnan Rashid asks if Aristotle specifically mentions that bones are formed first, and only afterwards the muscles are clothed around the bones.
    2) Adnan Rashid quotes Keith Moore, explaining how bones are formed first, and afterwards the muscles.
    3) PZ Myers corrects Adnan Rashid and explains how bones and muscles actually form simultaneously.
    4) Adnan Rashid then claims (unashamed) that 'Thumma' can be used both for sequential as simultaneous events.

    And now the interesting part:

    I looked up the verse (Quran 23:14) and noticed 'Thumma' is not the conjunction between the bones and muscles parts of the verse. The conjunction used is 'Fa'.
    I looked up the different uses of 'Fa' (link below) and found the following
    Quote
    And it [the term 'Fa'] is said to occur sometimes [among other uses] denoting conjunction in an absolute manner, with delay; as in the saying [Quran 23:14]


    Conclusion: The Quran states, according to Arabic grammar, that bones develop first, and muscles afterwards (there is a delay between both stages, see above).
    This is incorrect according to PZ Myers.
    The Quran is therefore wrong, hence not the word of God, but merely the words of Muhammad who, due to the time in which he lived, didn't have the right knowledge on embryology.

    Source: http://www.tyndalearchive.com/tabs/lane/  (How do I make this into a highlighted word to click on?)
    Hit the letter 'fa' (20th letter) > Read bottom of second column (leftclick to enlarge)

    <dust>: i love tea!!!
    <dust>: milky tea
    <three>: soooo gentle for my neck (from the inside)
    <dust>: mm
    <three>: it's definitely not called neck
    <dust>: lol
    <three>: what's the word i'm looking for
    <dust>: throat
  • Re: The Quran is wrong [Embryology]
     Reply #1 - June 20, 2011, 04:16 PM

    Yes, or:
    1. Allah didn't know anymore how He created mankind, so He made up something He seemed to remember;
    2. Allah purposely deceived Mohammad by telling him a wrong story, to test the belief of later Muslims...

    Religion is organized superstition
  • Re: The Quran is wrong [Embryology]
     Reply #2 - June 20, 2011, 04:51 PM

    The Quran is therefore wrong, hence not the word of God, but merely the words of Muhammad who, due to the time in which he lived, didn't have the right knowledge on embryology.


     Most people in our times (including myself) don't know shit about embryology.
     But I trust PZ Meyers on this.He's got a beard.
  • Re: The Quran is wrong [Embryology]
     Reply #3 - June 20, 2011, 04:56 PM

    Beard or no beard, I know something about embryology, and Mr. Meyers is right I think

    Religion is organized superstition
  • Re: The Quran is wrong [Embryology]
     Reply #4 - June 20, 2011, 05:36 PM

    But I trust PZ Meyers on this.He's got a beard.

    The right kind of beard.

  • Re: The Quran is wrong [Embryology]
     Reply #5 - June 21, 2011, 08:17 PM

    Hi All, This is my first post. This seems like the perfect forum to challenge my faith. (btw, I am not a sunni, nor do I beleive in organized religion)  dance

    Here is my rebuttal, as I don't see any mistakes in the Quran. Judge for yourself:

    According to the Qur'an
    [23:13] Afterwards We placed him in the form of seed in a sure receptacle
    [23:14] Afterwards We made the seed coagulated blood; and We formed the coagulated blood into a piece of flesh: Then We formed the piece of flesh into bones; and We cloathed those bones with flesh: Then We produced the same by another creation. Wherefore blessed be God, the most excellent creator!
    -Translation by George Sale (a non-muslim)

    To sum up, as per the Qur'an
    -sperm enters egg
    -sperm becomes "coagulated blood" while in the egg
    -the "coagulated blood" is turning into flesh (this stage is called "Morula")
    -bones start to form therein
    -more "flesh" ultimately covers the bones





    According to today's Science community

    (Sources:    
    nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/anatomyvideos/000025.htm
    nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002398.htm)

    During the first 12 hours after conception, the fertilized egg cell remains a single cell. After approximately 30 hours, it divides from 1 cell into 2 and 15 hours later, the 2 cells divide into 4. And at the end of 3 days, the fertilized egg cell has become a berry-like structure made up of 16 cells. This structure is called a morula, which is Latin for mulberry.

    The cells continue to divide 8 or 9 days following conception into a blastocyst. Although it is only the size of a pinhead, the blastocyst is composed of hundreds of cells. The blastocyst is slowly carried by tiny hair-like projections in the fallopian tube called cilia toward the uterus. During the critically important process of implantation, it must attach itself to the uterine lining where it will be able to get nourishment from the mother’s blood supply. If the blastocyst is unable to attach, the pregnancy will fail to survive.


        Week 3 of gestation (embryo development); week 5 of pregnancy
            The brain, spinal cord, and heart begin to develop.
            The gastrointestinal tract begins to develop.
        Weeks 4 to 5 of gestation; week 6 - 7 of pregnancy
            Arm and leg buds become visible.
            The brain develops into five areas and some cranial nerves are visible.
            The eyes and ear structures begin to form.
            Tissue forms that develops into the vertebra and some other bones.
            The heart continues to develop and now beats at a regular rhythm.
            Rudimentary blood moves through the main vessels.
        Week 6 of gestation; week 8 of pregnancy
            The arms and legs have grown longer, and foot and hand areas can be distinguished.
            The hands and feet have fingers and toes (digits), but may still be webbed.
            The brain continues to form.
            The lungs begin to form.
        Week 7 of gestation; week 9 of pregnancy
            Nipples and hair follicles form.
            Elbows and toes are visible.
            All essential organs have begun to form.
        Week 8 of gestation; week 10 of pregnancy
            The eyelids are more developed.
            External features of the ear begin to take their final shape.
            Facial features continue to develop.
            The intestines rotate.

    The end of the eighth week marks the end of the "embryonic period" and the beginning of the "fetal period."

        Weeks 9 to 12 of gestation; weeks 11 to 14 of pregnancy
            Eyelids close and will not reopen until about the 28th week.
            The face is well formed.
            Limbs are long and thin.
            Genitals appear well differentiated.
            Red blood cells are produced in the liver.
            The head makes up nearly half of the baby's size.
            The baby can make a fist with its fingers.
            Tooth buds appear for the baby teeth.
        Weeks 13 to 16 of gestation; weeks 15 to 18 of pregnancy
            The skin is almost transparent.
            Fine hair called lanugo develops on the head.
            Meconium is made in the intestinal tract.
            More muscle tissue and bones have developed, and the bones become harder.
            The baby begins to make active movements.
            The liver and pancreas produce fluid secretions.
            Sucking motions are made with the mouth.
        Weeks 17 to 19 of gestation; weeks 19 to 21 of pregnancy
            The baby can hear.
            The baby makes more movements.
            The mother may feel a fluttering in the lower abdomen.
        Week 20 of gestation; week 22 of pregnancy
            Lanugo hair covers entire body.
            Eyebrows and lashes appear.
            Nails appear on the fingers and toes.
            The baby is more active with increased muscle development.
            The mother can feel the baby moving.
            The fetal heartbeat can be heard with a stethoscope.
        Weeks 21 to 23 of gestation; weeks 23 to 25 of pregnancy
            Bone marrow begins to make blood cells.
            The lower airways of the baby's lungs develop but still do not produce surfactant (a substance that allows the alveoli to open for gas exchange).
            The baby begins to store fat.
        Week 24 of gestation; week 26 of pregnancy
            Eyebrows and eyelashes are well formed.
            All eye parts are developed.
            The baby has a hand and startle reflex.
            Footprints and fingerprints are forming.
            Air sacs form in lungs.
        Weeks 25 to 28 of gestation; weeks 27 to 30 of pregnancy
            Rapid brain development occurs.
            The nervous system is developed enough to control some body functions.
            The eyelids open and close.
            The respiratory system, while immature, has developed to the point where gas exchange is possible.
        Weeks 29 to 32 of gestation; weeks 31 to 34 of pregnancy
            A rapid increase in the amount of body fat occurs.
            Rhythmic breathing movements occur, but the lungs are not fully mature.
            The bones are fully developed, but still soft and pliable.
            The baby's body begins storing iron, calcium, and phosphorus.
        Week 36 of gestation; week 38 of pregnancy
            Lanugo begins to disappear.
            Body fat increases.
            Fingernails reach the end of the fingertips.
        Weeks 37 to 40 of gestation; weeks 39 to 42 of pregnancy
            Lanugo is gone except for on the upper arms and shoulders.
            Fingernails extend beyond fingertips.
            Small breast buds are present on both sexes.
            Head hair is now coarse and thicker.

    Cheers!  grin12
  • Re: The Quran is wrong [Embryology]
     Reply #6 - June 21, 2011, 09:53 PM

    Your links don't work, I can't check anything you quoted.

    <dust>: i love tea!!!
    <dust>: milky tea
    <three>: soooo gentle for my neck (from the inside)
    <dust>: mm
    <three>: it's definitely not called neck
    <dust>: lol
    <three>: what's the word i'm looking for
    <dust>: throat
  • Re: The Quran is wrong [Embryology]
     Reply #7 - June 21, 2011, 11:12 PM

    Sorry, I forgot the http://www component

    http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/anatomyvideos/000025.htm
    http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002398.htm

    http://i53.tinypic.com/xlxypz.png
    http://i56.tinypic.com/k9w0nt.png

    Regards
  • Re: The Quran is wrong [Embryology]
     Reply #8 - June 22, 2011, 03:25 AM

    where does the quran say that "-sperm enters egg".  ?
    the author of the quran is not even aware of the existence of the egg

    Where does modern science say that "-sperm becomes "coagulated blood" , which itself turns into flesh?
    There is no stage where coagulated blood is involved

    where does the quran say that "bones start to form therein"?, and then that 'MORE' flesh covers the bones?
    it says the lump gets turned into bones .  Not that within the flesh, bones start to form.
    There is no suggestion that some flesh already existed, when the bones are covered with flesh.


    You have obviously interpreted the quran so as to fit modern science. But in doing so, you get the science wrong, as well as the quran wrong.
    If the quran really does mean the things that you claim, then Allah was lying when he said that his book is "pure and clear". It is extremely unclear, and for a perfect being, his writing style leaves much to be desired.
  • Re: The Quran is wrong [Embryology]
     Reply #9 - June 22, 2011, 06:02 AM

    @Three44: According to Keith Moore's book the fingers form before their bones do Smiley

    @Sunnie:

    > sperm enters egg
    1: It doesn't say "sperm" it says "Nutfah" which is a fluid and so excludes the possibility of it being a sperm which is not a fluid.
    2: It doesn't say that it enters the egg, it says it enters a place of safe lodging.

    Effectively it says "the (mucky fluid) goes into (a safe place)" - the egg is certainly not safe if it doesn't attach to the wall of the uterus now is it?


    > sperm becomes "coagulated blood" while in the egg

    At no point is either the sperm or the egg "coagulated blood" as far as I know, which medical reference do you have which states that it is?


    > the "coagulated blood" is turning into flesh (this stage is called "Morula")
    Incorrect, the flesh develops out of cells not blood.

    > bones start to form therein
    AFTER the shapes of the fingers have already developed.

    > more "flesh" ultimately covers the bones
    The flesh and bones develop at the same time from the same cells.  So if the Quran is saying that bones come before flesh in time then it is wrong, and if it is saying "bones are clothed with flesh" then any idiot can see that.

    Not only does it tell us absolutely nothing, but also reflects common misconceptions of the time such as that semen passes through the kidneys.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: The Quran is wrong [Embryology]
     Reply #10 - June 24, 2011, 02:17 AM

    Allah was lying when he said that his book is "pure and clear". It is extremely unclear, and for a perfect being, his writing style leaves much to be desired.

    @dr_sloth
    HAHAHA. But don't you atleast agree that the words used were simple and clear. Nonetheless, I definitely agree that the irrelevant concepts (such as formation of a human) are very unclear. This is because, the Qur'an is not a science book. Having that said, I find all theses to be extremely clear...



    @TheRationalizer
    It seems you are the most logical person here. Perhaps I can learn from you. For sake of argument, if the author was all-knowing, using the vernacular of the time, what words could have the author of the quran used instead to describe to the normal man in regards to the fertilization of the egg via sperm.

    Cheers

  • Re: The Quran is wrong [Embryology]
     Reply #11 - June 24, 2011, 03:06 AM

    > the "coagulated blood" is turning into flesh (this stage is called "Morula")
    Incorrect, the flesh develops out of cells not blood.

    Yes, flesh develops out of cells..but what do the cells develop from?  Wink
    Also, "coagulated blood" is not the same as blood. To me, it seems very plausible that the Qur'an's author is trying to explain cell plasma or nucleolus proteins etc, and is calling it "coagulated blood". So this "coagulated blood" maybe becomes the first cell, which then multiply and start to form organs/flesh.

    Again, this is not a science book which will describe the chemical reactions taking place... it should've just said that "Allah designed humans", instead it went a bit deeper, possibly to induce passion...

    > sperm becomes "coagulated blood" while in the egg
    At no point is either the sperm or the egg "coagulated blood" as far as I know, which medical reference do you have which states that it is?

    Medical science can not confirm nor deny this.

    > bones start to form therein
    AFTER the shapes of the fingers have already developed.

    Where is your reference? One of the first organs that start to develop is the spinal cord... not fingers. Please see my reference.

    cheers
  • Re: The Quran is wrong [Embryology]
     Reply #12 - June 24, 2011, 04:52 AM

    @dr_sloth
    HAHAHA. But don't you atleast agree that the words used were simple and clear.



    yes 'clearly' wrong.   your interpretation is not the clear one
  • Re: The Quran is wrong [Embryology]
     Reply #13 - June 24, 2011, 06:32 AM

    @TheRationalizer
    It seems you are the most logical person here. Perhaps I can learn from you. For sake of argument, if the author was all-knowing, using the vernacular of the time, what words could have the author of the quran used instead to describe to the normal man in regards to the fertilization of the egg via sperm.


    He made you all from his swimmer and her egg. From things too small to see with your eye grow creatures as large as elephants and whales, for He is able to do all things.

    Where is your reference? One of the first organs that start to develop is the spinal cord... not fingers. Please see my reference.


    The first thing to note is that the spinal cord is not bone but a collection of nerve tissues which connect to the brain which run along the back bone, so the development of the spinal cord at 3 weeks I can't see as being relevant.


    The following references are from
    - The Developing Human third edition (with Islamic Additions), Keith Moore, Published by Dar Al-Qiblah for Islamic Literature.

    The Quran miracle claim is that "clothed the bones with flesh" shows how bones form first and then muscles, but Moore's book says...

    - The limb muscles (Page 363)
    The musculature of the limbs develops IN SITU from the mesenchyme surrounding the developing bones.

    Which shows that they develop at the same time as muscles.  It is simply the word "bones" and "surrounding" that was picked up on and used as the miracle. The sequential time part of the miracle was invented simply because "muscles surround bones" is so damned obvious.


    There are numerous hadiths which are supposed to be miracles too, but when you look at the data within Moore's book it shows how wrong they all are - which is quite funny so one day I will do a video about it Smiley


    Here are some other details from the book in case you


    - Histogenesis of Cartilage (Page 344):
    Cartilage develops from mesenchyme and first appears in embryos of about five weeks.

    *I am led to believe that there is a word in Lane's lexicon for cartilage "Ghardoof/Ghadroof" but I haven't verified it yet


    - Histogenesis of Bone (Page 344):
    Bone always develops by transformation of pre-existing connective tissue; it develops in two types of connective tissue, mesenchyme and cartilage.


    - Development of typical vertebrae (Page 349):
    Ossification begins during the embryonic period and ends at about the twenty fifth year.


    - Chondrification (Page 349):
    During the sixth week chondrification centers appear in each mesenchymal vertebra. The two centers in each centrum fuse at the end of the embryonic period to form the cartilaginous centrum...(cont)...Ossification becomes evident in the vertebral arches around the eighth week.


    - The Embryonic Period (Page 70):
    Fourth to Eighth week


    - Muscles (Page 361):
    The muscular system develops from the mesoderm.


    - Grastrulation (Page 54):
    Many cells of the epiblast detach themselves form neighboring cells and migrate inwardly to form a loose network of tissue called "mesoblast", which spreads laterally and cranially to form a layer between the epiblast and the hypoblast known as the intraembryonic mesoderm.....(cont)....The mesoderm gives rise to smooth muscular coats, the connective tissues, and the vessels supplying organs. Mesoderm is also the source of blood cells and bone marrow, the skeleton, striated muscles, the reproductive and excretory organs.


    - The limbs (Page 366-367) - for this I will add numerical points
    The general features of limb development are described in Chapter 5. Development of the limb bones is described in Chapter 15, and formation of the limb musculature is outlined in Chapter 16. The purpose of this chapter is to consolidate this material.

    1: The limb buds first appear as small elevations on the ventrolateral body wall toward the end of the fourth week.
    2: By the end of the sixth week the messenchymal tissue in the periphery of the hand plates condenses to form digital rays (finger rays)
    3: As the limbs elongate and the bones form, myoblasts aggregate and develop into a large muscle mass in each limb bud.



    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: The Quran is wrong [Embryology]
     Reply #14 - June 24, 2011, 06:33 AM

    @Sonnie - have you seen Klingschor's video showing where the embryology in the Quran came from?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRBrl02tnnY

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: The Quran is wrong [Embryology]
     Reply #15 - June 24, 2011, 04:58 PM

    Also, "coagulated blood" is not the same as blood. To me, it seems very plausible that the Qur'an's author is trying to explain cell plasma or nucleolus proteins etc, and is calling it "coagulated blood". So this "coagulated blood" maybe becomes the first cell, which then multiply and start to form organs/flesh.


    If you were right would it not have been better to say "like coagulated blood" or "looks like coagulated blood" because then it wouldn't be incorrect, whereas at the moment it is.


    Again, this is not a science book


    To be honest that statement is just a way of saying "It's only wrong because it's not supposed to be right."  You don't have to be scientific to explain it, you can use subjective qualifiers like "looks like" and that would make it clear that it is a simile rather than an attempt at an accurate description.


    Medical science can not confirm nor deny this. (The embryo is never a clot of blood)


    Not only can it, but it already has.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: The Quran is wrong [Embryology]
     Reply #16 - July 01, 2011, 06:20 AM

    Here's the final blow by mister Rationalizer

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2aaM73CRBI&feature=channel_video_title

    Too bad I didn't get any credit for the Fa stuff :( But I don't mind, I'm glad it's out there now!

    <dust>: i love tea!!!
    <dust>: milky tea
    <three>: soooo gentle for my neck (from the inside)
    <dust>: mm
    <three>: it's definitely not called neck
    <dust>: lol
    <three>: what's the word i'm looking for
    <dust>: throat
  • Re: The Quran is wrong [Embryology]
     Reply #17 - July 01, 2011, 08:23 AM

    Three44, I am happy to put your credit in the description - what would you like me to write? Smiley

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: The Quran is wrong [Embryology]
     Reply #18 - July 01, 2011, 10:06 AM

    Hi All, This is my first post. This seems like the perfect forum to challenge my faith. (btw, I am not a sunni, nor do I beleive in organized religion)  dance

    Here is my rebuttal, as I don't see any mistakes in the Quran. Judge for yourself:

      that is O.K., you don't see any mistakes., but WHAT DO YOU SEE IN QURAN dear sonnie? words of Allah?? God??

    Quote
    According to the Qur'an
    [23:13] Afterwards We placed him in the form of seed in a sure receptacle
    [23:14] Afterwards We made the seed coagulated blood; and We formed the coagulated blood into a piece of flesh: Then We formed the piece of flesh into bones; and We cloathed those bones with flesh: Then We produced the same by another creation. Wherefore blessed be God, the most excellent creator!
    -Translation by George Sale (a non-muslim)

    Let us put out right translation sonnie., there are plenty of translation and the right one is here not that old   George Sale stuff  here you go
    Quote
    023.013: Then We made him a small seed in a firm resting-place,

    023.014: Then We made the seed a clot, then We made the clot a lump of flesh, then We made (in) the lump of flesh bones, then We clothed the bones with flesh, then We caused it to grow into another creation, so blessed be Allah, the best of the creators.

     I just want you to note  that"THERE IS NO ARABIC  WORD "blood" in those two verses

    Quote
    To sum up, as per the Qur'an
    -sperm enters egg
    -sperm becomes "coagulated blood" while in the egg
    -the "coagulated blood" is turning into flesh (this stage is called "Morula")
    -bones start to form therein
    -more "flesh" ultimately covers the bones

    Nope.. no blood in those verses

    Quote
    According to today's Science community

    (Sources:    
    http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/anatomyvideos/000025.htm
     
    http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002398.htm
    ...........................
    Cheers!  grin12

    O.k. what is there in those links is nothing to do with what is there in Quran

    here is a better link http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/prenatal-care/PR00112/METHOD=print

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: The Quran is wrong [Embryology]
     Reply #19 - July 01, 2011, 10:48 AM

    Yes, flesh develops out of cells..but what do the cells develop from?  Wink
    Also, "coagulated blood" is not the same as blood. To me, it seems very plausible that the Qur'an's author is trying to explain cell plasma or nucleolus proteins etc, and is calling it "coagulated blood". So this "coagulated blood" maybe becomes the first cell, which then multiply and start to form organs/flesh.

    Again, this is not a science book which will describe the chemical reactions taking place... it should've just said that "Allah designed humans", instead it went a bit deeper, possibly to induce passion...
    Medical science can not confirm nor deny this.
    Where is your reference? One of the first organs that start to develop is the spinal cord... not fingers. Please see my reference.

    cheers


    Coagulation in regards to blood is what happens when you cut your self. The blood vessel uses 2 different things clot and some kind of fiber to get the blood to harden so "repairs" can be done to close to hole.
    This also happens with a early miscarriage happens. Blood well be Coagulating around the small pile of DNA and cells so it can be removed from the body when the women next time has her period. Coagulated blood is in a word DEAD blood.

    Now for what makes a cell that is easy.
    It is a combination of Protein, water molecules, DNA and some other stuff i can't remember now.

    We know this shit and WE have known if for several hundred years at least GET with the goddamn program and stop being ignorant.
    I suspect you don't even know what blood is made of?.
  • Re: The Quran is wrong [Embryology]
     Reply #20 - July 01, 2011, 10:57 AM

     
    Coagulation in regards to blood is ..................

    Many of these fools who are high school drop outs don't know the difference between Coagulation of blood and clotting of blood., If in a laboratory some one says blood clotting as Coagulation of blood., I will beat them up and send them to high school biology class.

    Coagulation of blood
    means simply take blood and heat it up and until it gets cooked., what you have there is    denatured proteins and denatured  proteins with-in red cells

    Clotting of blood
    is a series of enzymatic reactions  that stops the blood flow during a fresh wound..  for e.g. heparin will do nothing when blood is getting coagulated where as it blocks blood clotting.,

    Many of these fools  interchange these words and talk nonsense. Any fellow  who talks science out of silly verses in Quran for that matter from any RELIGIOUS BOOKS  are high school drop outs and  fools..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: The Quran is wrong [Embryology]
     Reply #21 - July 01, 2011, 12:43 PM

    Here is an embryology crib sheet I put together based on Klingschor's references + a couple I found myself.  Does any if it look a little familiar? Smiley

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: The Quran is wrong [Embryology]
     Reply #22 - July 03, 2011, 08:32 AM

    Many of these fools who are high school drop outs don't know the difference between Coagulation of blood and clotting of blood., If in a laboratory some one says blood clotting as Coagulation of blood., I will beat them up and send them to high school biology class.

    Coagulation of blood
    means simply take blood and heat it up and until it gets cooked., what you have there is    denatured proteins and denatured  proteins with-in red cells

    Clotting of blood
    is a series of enzymatic reactions  that stops the blood flow during a fresh wound..  for e.g. heparin will do nothing when blood is getting coagulated where as it blocks blood clotting.,


    Are you sure you don't have those two definitions confused?  I thought that a clot was merely a blockage, whereas coagulation is a process which leads to clotting?

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: The Quran is wrong [Embryology]
     Reply #23 - July 03, 2011, 08:33 AM

    @Sonnie - I wonder if you are going to now abandon this thread, or if you are going to read the references I posted and comment on how the words in the Quran mirror perfectly the erroneous stages of Greek/Roman medicine?

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: The Quran is wrong [Embryology]
     Reply #24 - July 03, 2011, 08:42 AM

    Yes, flesh develops out of cells..but what do the cells develop from?  Wink

    You mean muscle cells? Ultimately they are developed from (undifferentiated) stem cells. Certainly not from blood. Blood is a tissue and one type of tissue cannot just turn into another.
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