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 Topic: 17 year old girl punished publicly in Swat

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  • 17 year old girl punished publicly in Swat
     OP - April 03, 2009, 02:42 PM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU_6Li_xrsk

     What a bunch of swines. Why the hell did the pakistani goverment sign a peace treaty with these bastards?

    The talibans are just following Muhammed's example. Only difference is, Muhammed was living in the sixth century, while they are not. Perhaps time to start thinking rationally, and leave the religion virus behind? I wish more people would see Hassan's brilliant video on Muhammed.
  • Re: 17 year old girl punished publicly in Swat
     Reply #1 - April 03, 2009, 02:50 PM
    Finally some good news comes out of Pakistan, I am so glad that the media and majority of the population of Pakistan is outraged by this, I think with this the Taliban have a nail in their own coffin, for example some thought sharia law is good, now majority of them think it is bad, and realize what it means if they were under sharia law.
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: 17 year old girl punished publicly in Swat
     Reply #2 - April 03, 2009, 02:54 PM
    Yes, I'm glad to see the pakistani media openly condemning this.

    Btw, here is a report from daily mail on the incident, which tells why she was punished

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1166842/Please-stop-Taliban-flog-girl-17-begs-mercy-honour-punishment.html

    "But some claim the commander ordered the flogging to get revenge after the girl refused to accept a marriage proposal."
  • Re: 17 year old girl punished publicly in Swat
     Reply #3 - April 03, 2009, 02:57 PM
    Appearantly the man practically sitting on top of her and holding her arms down is her BROTHER!  finmad  It makes me seethe with anger to know that the politicians of Pakistan obviously don't care about the wellbeing of their female citizens.

    Here's what the Times and the Guardian have to say about it:

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article6022878.ece

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/02/taliban-pakistan-justice-women-flogging

    It just makes me SICK  vomit that these jerks take obvious delight in torturing women and making their lives miserable!
    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: 17 year old girl punished publicly in Swat
     Reply #4 - April 03, 2009, 03:02 PM
    Oh the dailymail, its even funny reading the comments, "animals" ect, duh we are all animals! re: evolution we are the 5th ape.
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: 17 year old girl punished publicly in Swat
     Reply #5 - April 03, 2009, 03:04 PM
    By the way it is her brothers who beat her, as other men are not allowed to touch her. No of the brothers smacks the other brother and verbally abuses him, with I thought was slightly funny.
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: 17 year old girl punished publicly in Swat
     Reply #6 - April 03, 2009, 06:20 PM
    "This video has been removed due to terms of use violation" :S
    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: 17 year old girl punished publicly in Swat
     Reply #7 - April 03, 2009, 06:28 PM
    What surprises me is how the Pakistanis seem so shocked at this.
    What were they expecting?

    BHuh?B
    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
  • Re: 17 year old girl punished publicly in Swat
     Reply #8 - April 03, 2009, 07:51 PM
    Quote from: Submissive Bob on April 03, 2009, 06:28 PM
    What surprises me is how the Pakistanis seem so shocked at this.
    What were they expecting?

    BHuh?B

    They still see Islam as a sweet & progressive religion, and tailor it to suit.  They get a reality check when the see the true version staring them in the face, but instead of accepting it, they react. They will never learn, and history will repeat itself over & over again until they do.
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  • Re: 17 year old girl punished publicly in Swat
     Reply #9 - April 03, 2009, 07:59 PM
    Brother beating brother, slapping sister... isn't that traditional pakistani/punjabi behaviour?
  • Re: 17 year old girl punished publicly in Swat
     Reply #10 - April 03, 2009, 09:13 PM
    Quote from: Nour on April 03, 2009, 02:57 PM
    Appearantly the man practically sitting on top of her and holding her arms down is her BROTHER!  finmad  It makes me seethe with anger to know that the politicians of Pakistan obviously don't care about the wellbeing of their female citizens.

    Here's what the Times and the Guardian have to say about it:

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article6022878.ece

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/02/taliban-pakistan-justice-women-flogging

    It just makes me SICK  vomit that these jerks take obvious delight in torturing women and making their lives miserable!


    I don't doubt that they don't care, because the politicians in Pakistan are a bunch of corrupt bastards. But the reason the Taliban have got control in that area of Pakistan is because that region has always been notoriously difficult for outsiders to control. That is why the pakistani government decided to take the easy way out and do a deal with the Taliban instead of trying to sort the place out!

    Listening to that girl crying does make you feel sick.
    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: 17 year old girl punished publicly in Swat
     Reply #11 - April 03, 2009, 09:16 PM
    Sorry Balthier, I couldnt even watch it and had to switch it off
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  • Re: 17 year old girl punished publicly in Swat
     Reply #12 - April 03, 2009, 10:28 PM
    Quote from: faro0485 on April 03, 2009, 07:59 PM
    Brother beating brother, slapping sister... isn't that traditional pakistani/punjabi behaviour?


    Don't you think that, that comment actually says more about you then the folks you tried to insult with your slander?
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: 17 year old girl punished publicly in Swat
     Reply #13 - April 03, 2009, 10:30 PM
    I have a sneaking suspicion that the guy wipping her was getting sexual gratification from the act, dirty bastard.
    Take the Pakman challenge and convince me there is a God and Mo was not a murdering, power hungry sex maniac.
  • Re: 17 year old girl punished publicly in Swat
     Reply #14 - April 03, 2009, 10:33 PM
    Quote from: pakman on April 03, 2009, 10:30 PM
    I have a sneaking suspicion that the guy wipping her was getting sexual gratification from the act, dirty bastard.

    Did you spot a boner?
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  • Re: 17 year old girl punished publicly in Swat
     Reply #15 - April 03, 2009, 10:34 PM
    Quote from: pakman on April 03, 2009, 10:30 PM
    I have a sneaking suspicion that the guy wipping her was getting sexual gratification from the act, dirty bastard.


    it was her brother but yeah i see your point
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: 17 year old girl punished publicly in Swat
     Reply #16 - April 04, 2009, 04:44 PM
    Absolutely barbaric, disgusting and shameful. Bloody tribal brutes.

    I had to switch it off when my daughter and son could not take it.

    Totally against Qur'aan.

    BMZ
  • Re: 17 year old girl punished publicly in Swat
     Reply #17 - April 04, 2009, 08:33 PM
    Quote from: BMZ on April 04, 2009, 04:44 PM

    Totally against Qur'aan.

    BMZ


    24:2
    (As for) the fornicatress and the fornicator, flog each of them, (giving) a hundred stripes, and let not pity for them detain you in the matter of obedience to Allah, if you believe in Allah and the last day, and let a party of believers witness their chastisement.


    The parts I have put in bold, is seen in the video.

    She was suspected of fornicating, and thus was flogged.

    The men who held her down, were her brothers, and not a single bit of pity was shown whilst she was screaming at the top of her lungs.

    I don't see how this is "totally" against the Qur'aan BMZ.
    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Re: 17 year old girl punished publicly in Swat
     Reply #18 - April 04, 2009, 08:44 PM
    Waiting for your reply to Tommy, BMZ.   whistling2
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  • Re: 17 year old girl punished publicly in Swat
     Reply #19 - April 04, 2009, 08:48 PM
    Quote from: Tommy on April 04, 2009, 08:33 PM
    Quote from: BMZ on April 04, 2009, 04:44 PM

    Totally against Qur'aan.

    BMZ


    24:2
    (As for) the fornicatress and the fornicator, flog each of them, (giving) a hundred stripes, and let not pity for them detain you in the matter of obedience to Allah, if you believe in Allah and the last day, and let a party of believers witness their chastisement.


    The parts I have put in bold, is seen in the video.

    She was suspected of fornicating, and thus was flogged.

    The men who held her down, were her brothers, and not a single bit of pity was shown whilst she was screaming at the top of her lungs.

    I don't see how this is "totally" against the Qur'aan BMZ.


    The thing is, she wasn't even suspected of fornicating! She was seen talking to someone who was not her mehram and 14 taliban burst into her house issuing this verdict! Even Islam is not totalitarian enough for these people!
    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: 17 year old girl punished publicly in Swat
     Reply #20 - April 04, 2009, 08:51 PM
    Quote from: aliadiere on April 04, 2009, 08:48 PM

    The thing is, she wasn't even suspected of fornicating! She was seen talking to someone who was not her mehram and 14 taliban burst into her house issuing this verdict! Even Islam is not totalitarian enough for these people!


    Do you see the part in bold?

    That's the condition for the Taliban's suspicion.

    In Islam, if a woman is found outside with her mehram, then she is suspected of fornication. It's only for guys that the public have to first have at least four witnesses before bringing him to flogging. But for a woman, it's obviously different.
    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Re: 17 year old girl punished publicly in Swat
     Reply #21 - April 05, 2009, 12:35 AM
    Quote from: Tommy on April 04, 2009, 08:51 PM
    Quote from: aliadiere on April 04, 2009, 08:48 PM

    The thing is, she wasn't even suspected of fornicating! She was seen talking to someone who was not her mehram and 14 taliban burst into her house issuing this verdict! Even Islam is not totalitarian enough for these people!


    Do you see the part in bold?

    That's the condition for the Taliban's suspicion.

    In Islam, if a woman is found outside with her mehram, then she is suspected of fornication. It's only for guys that the public have to first have at least four witnesses before bringing him to flogging. But for a woman, it's obviously different.


    My mistake, I meant "seen outside without her mehram"
    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Re: 17 year old girl punished publicly in Swat
     Reply #22 - April 05, 2009, 04:31 AM
    Quote
    Islamabad

    Religious parties appeared reluctant to openly condemn the case of lashing a 17-year-old girl in Swat while not giving any clear statement regarding the unfortunate incident.

    According to details, a 17-year-old girl in a village of Swat named as Kabal received 34 lashes in public for going out with her father-in-law while this incident happened almost 10 years ago.

    ?The News? tried to contact the leaders of leading religious parties of the country, including Samia Raheel Qazi, Qazi Hussain Ahmed and Maulana Fazl-ur-Rehman in order to take their stance over the barbaric act and its religious justification but they either did not picked up their phones or refused to comment on the incident, saying that they were not aware of the actual circumstances.

    The representatives of religious parties, however, did not deny the right of trial of the culprit but somehow justified the act of lashing in one way or the other.

    Renowned religious leader Umme Hassaan said that she could not say anything regarding the incident as she was unaware of the circumstances which have lead to the lashing of girl.

    ?I can?t really make any comment on it as there must be some ground behind the incident,? she said while adding that the media should also investigate before propagating that incident.

    She said that trial was the right of every culprit according to Islam but who knows that they might have conducted the trial before announcing the punishment.

    Jamiat-e-Ulema Islam Media Director Hafiz Sajjad Qamar said that his party could not comment on the incident as it was a matter between the government and Taliban. ?It is the government who signed the peace deal,? he said.

    Qamar said that one could not deny the punishment of lashing as Islam allowed lashes in various crimes. ?It really depends on the nature of crime but such punishments exist in Quran and Hadith,? he said.

    He however said that there must be trial before any punishment as no punishment could be given without knowing the actual circumstances and background.

    A female religious scholar requesting anonymity said that the video could be propaganda against the peace deal in Swat. ?There were various videos released during the Afghan war which later proved to be false,? she said.

    She said that such punishments should be given in privacy while women should be involved in the procedure rather men. ?It is condemnable that men were holding the women as there must be women while doing so,? she said.

    She however said that Taliban could not do it as openly as they were quite sensible people.

    Islamic Dawah Academy Director Abdul Jabbar Shakir openly condemned the incident saying that evidences were required before giving any punishment to the culprit. ?Going out with father-in-law is not a crime and such punishment does not exist in Islam,? he said.

    He said that such practices were bringing a bad name to Islam as no punishment could be given without trial and evidence. ?According to Islam benefit of doubt must be given to the culprit not to those who were having doubts on somebody?s character,? he asserted.

    ANP MNA Bushra Gohar said that the unfortunate event was the outcome of army?s failure in Swat that has led to such barbaric acts by some forces. ?Such incident speaks volumes of inefficiency of the army that failed to control handful of extremist groups who are now spread everywhere,? she said.

    She said that the unfortunate event would definitely have a negative impact on the peace deal between the government and Taliban. ?This is a criminal act and our party condemns it while every possible measure would be taken to curb such incidents in future,? she said.


    http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=170816

     finmad These people are so backwards and barbaric! I'm beginning to lose faith in humanity  finmad
  • Re: 17 year old girl punished publicly in Swat
     Reply #23 - April 05, 2009, 05:37 AM
    Quote from: heartbomb on April 05, 2009, 04:31 AM

    She however said that Taliban could not do it as openly as they were quite sensible people.





    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Re: 17 year old girl punished publicly in Swat
     Reply #24 - April 05, 2009, 06:58 AM
    Quote from: aliadiere on April 04, 2009, 08:48 PM
    Quote from: Tommy on April 04, 2009, 08:33 PM
    Quote from: BMZ on April 04, 2009, 04:44 PM

    Totally against Qur'aan.

    BMZ


    24:2
    (As for) the fornicatress and the fornicator, flog each of them, (giving) a hundred stripes, and let not pity for them detain you in the matter of obedience to Allah, if you believe in Allah and the last day, and let a party of believers witness their chastisement.


    The parts I have put in bold, is seen in the video.

    She was suspected of fornicating, and thus was flogged.

    The men who held her down, were her brothers, and not a single bit of pity was shown whilst she was screaming at the top of her lungs.

    I don't see how this is "totally" against the Qur'aan BMZ.


    The thing is, she wasn't even suspected of fornicating!  She was seen talking to someone who was not her mehram and 14 taliban burst into her house issuing this verdict! Even Islam is not totalitarian enough for these people!

    She was seen leaving the house with someone who was not her mehram. Not just talking.

    And stop  taking the side of cowards who are acting in the framework set to them by the book they are following.
    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: 17 year old girl punished publicly in Swat
     Reply #25 - April 05, 2009, 07:34 AM
    Quote from: Tommy on April 04, 2009, 08:33 PM
    Quote from: BMZ on April 04, 2009, 04:44 PM

    Totally against Qur'aan.

    BMZ


    24:2
    (As for) the fornicatress and the fornicator, flog each of them, (giving) a hundred stripes, and let not pity for them detain you in the matter of obedience to Allah, if you believe in Allah and the last day, and let a party of believers witness their chastisement.


    The parts I have put in bold, is seen in the video.

    She was suspected of fornicating, and thus was flogged.

    The men who held her down, were her brothers, and not a single bit of pity was shown whilst she was screaming at the top of her lungs.

    I don't see how this is "totally" against the Qur'aan BMZ.


    First, they did not produce four witnesses, which is a prime requirement.

    Second, they did not flog her a hundred times. If she were a Zaania, they could have given her a hundred.

    Where did this 30+ come from?

    The bloody half-baked Mullahs of tribal areas have no clue about this verse 4:15, in which Allah has shown mercy instead of any punishment. 

    وَاللاَّتِي يَأْتِينَ الْفَاحِشَةَ مِن نِّسَآئِكُمْ فَاسْتَشْهِدُواْ عَلَيْهِنَّ أَرْبَعةً مِّنكُمْ فَإِن شَهِدُواْ فَأَمْسِكُوهُنَّ فِي الْبُيُوتِ حَتَّىَ يَتَوَفَّاهُنَّ الْمَوْتُ أَوْ يَجْعَلَ اللّهُ لَهُنَّ سَبِيلاً

    My own translation: "4:15 If any of your women have committed any indecency, get four witnesses to testify and if they do, confine them to houses, till they die or Allah makes a way out for them."

    Do we see any order to whip or lash or beat in above? If you ask a Mullah, he will justify it using Hadith but cannot justify under Qur'aan at all.

    I have read that the Chief Justice of Pakistan has asked that all the whipping buggers be produced in Court.

    BMZ

  • Re: 17 year old girl punished publicly in Swat
     Reply #26 - April 05, 2009, 07:35 AM
    Quote from: IsLame on April 04, 2009, 08:44 PM
    Waiting for your reply to Tommy, BMZ.   whistling2


    Done, Islame

    I am watching F1 at Sepang, Malaysia.

    Will write more later.

    Thanks
    Baig M Z
  • Re: 17 year old girl punished publicly in Swat
     Reply #27 - April 05, 2009, 08:09 AM
    Quote from: BMZ on April 05, 2009, 07:34 AM

    The bloody half-baked Mullahs of tribal areas have no clue about this verse 4:15, in which Allah has shown mercy instead of any punishment. 

    وَاللاَّتِي يَأْتِينَ الْفَاحِشَةَ مِن نِّسَآئِكُمْ فَاسْتَشْهِدُواْ عَلَيْهِنَّ أَرْبَعةً مِّنكُمْ فَإِن شَهِدُواْ فَأَمْسِكُوهُنَّ فِي الْبُيُوتِ حَتَّىَ يَتَوَفَّاهُنَّ الْمَوْتُ أَوْ يَجْعَلَ اللّهُ لَهُنَّ سَبِيلاً

    My own translation: "4:15 If any of your women have committed any indecency, get four witnesses to testify and if they do, confine them to houses, till they die or Allah makes a way out for them."


    Wow! And this is Allah(SWT) apparently showing mercy? If a woman commits an "indecency" & there are 4 truthful or untruthful witnesses to testify against her, she's to be confined to her house till death? Why?  finmad

    Most countries give the punishemnt of "life imprisonment" for crimes like mass murder, terrorism etc, but of course Allah(SWT) justifies mass murder & terrorism for His sake against "unbelievers" plenty of times in the Quran. Allah(SWT) also gives men the right to have sex with their "right hand" possessions & the authority over their wives who have to be obedient.

    But a woman is to be confined to her house till death for "indecency" just because four witnesses testify?

    And how will Allah(SWT) make a way out for them? The Quran is according to Allah Himself, His last advice to mankind, Muhammad is His last Prophet & Muhammad said that the Quran is his "miracle" so will a new Prophet come to make a way out? Even if a good guy like Bahaullah comes, Muslims will refuse to accept him. Will there be a voice booming from Heaven saying that the woman should be let out now? Allah has stopped performing miracles since Muhammad's time so I doubt that'll happen.

    Methinks receiving a few good  040 is far preferable to being confined to a house until death-which can happen 40-50 or more years later. In this case, I say it was better, the "whipping bugger" Mullahs used Hadith instead of the Quran. Alhamdullilah for hadiths! worship
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: 17 year old girl punished publicly in Swat
     Reply #28 - April 05, 2009, 08:22 AM
    Quote from: BMZ on April 05, 2009, 07:34 AM
    First, they did not produce four witnesses, which is a prime requirement.

    Second, they did not flog her a hundred times. If she were a Zaania, they could have given her a hundred.

    <snip>

    BMZ

    Oh, great. So tell me, how do you know there were not four witnesses? Presumably some people saw her and reported her actions.

    If there were four witnesses then your complaint becomes that they whipped her the wrong number of times, and should have given her a hundred lashes instead of only 34. Fantastic. You're such an inspiration to us all.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: 17 year old girl punished publicly in Swat
     Reply #29 - April 05, 2009, 08:40 AM
    I've read some of the responses of Ummah members (whilst the majority of them were horrified by this, there were some people who agreed with it).

    Quote from: Mikha?eel
    Got nothing worthwhile to add then i take it? :rolleyes:

    This is a trial by the media. She's a woman, therefore she has to be innocent, the evil misogynistic Taliban are at it again, they just loooove punishing women.

    You lot would make very very poor Judges, thats for certain. None of you were there. None of you have access to the evidence the Judge had, and yet here you without the full facts slandering them. Thats assuming this is even true, and what junaid has brought would suggest it probably isn't.



    Looks like most of you have been taken in by the media propaganda campaign against the Taliban.


    Quote from: Leena_Cnd
    I wish they had flogging in the west:torture:
    It would solve a lot of problems, and cheaper
     on the penal system.

    Instead of bailing out the bankers, I say . . .
    flog  :inlove: them in town square



    Quote from: AbuMubarak
    so i hope you funamentalists see, we have tried your sharee'a and it does nothing but oppress women

    so now the world can see why we must fight sharee'a wherever it appears and find a more moderate islam

    signed- barack obama


    The response to AbuMubarak was:

    Quote from: bushbaby
    are you saying that you'd agree with such floggings on your streets in America?


    And he said "do you prefer abortions, unwed mothers, birth control pills and free condom giveaways?"

     Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

    He also said he saw the beating and that he "got worse from [his] father".

    I wonder why I'm not surprised at seeing those types of responses.


    http://ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?t=208900
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