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 Topic: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology

 (Read 9521 times)
  • Previous page 1 2« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #30 - November 05, 2010, 12:09 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on November 05, 2010, 12:26 AM
    Your fate is sealed with predestination but you have free-will which will decide the outcome of your predestined fate.

    Because God is a mobster boss of a casino in the desert. You're just a bum playing one of his cosmic games. A game that is rigged. The House always cashes in. A game he knows the results of but you have to play because you don't know the results. Why does he let you suffer through this? Only to have your knees broken at the end of the night? We don't know. Why create a fucking casino in the desert? We don't know.

    The cosmic game; you never asked to participate but you're now forced to. It's like that Russian roulette scene in Deer Hunter and you're Robert De Niro. There's some insane Vietnamese angel shouting "DI DI MAU! DI DI MAU!" and you're playing for your eternal soul. This is God basically:

    (Clicky for piccy!)

    He's just crazier-looking. And doesn't lose.


     Cheesy Cheesy Afro Afro
    "He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife."
    ~ Douglas Adams
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #31 - November 05, 2010, 12:13 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on November 05, 2010, 08:27 AM
    Men and women are equal, but polygamy is allowed and polyandry is not. 4:34 is for men to use against women and not vice-versa.


    Yeah important point. Funny Muslims never bring this up.
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #32 - November 05, 2010, 12:15 PM
    Muhammad was the most perfect man of all time, and yet he was one of the worst role models anyone could ever think of to emulate.

    Allah is everywhere and can hear every one of us in our times of trouble, but he prefers us to speak to him in Arabic (duas). He also wants us to worship and praise him in Arabic only (5 daily prayers).

    When Islam is against idol worshipper, but Muslims pray and prostrate towards Kaaba, and literally worship the Black Stone (Al-Hajar-ul-Aswad).
    "He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife."
    ~ Douglas Adams
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #33 - November 05, 2010, 12:18 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on November 05, 2010, 12:26 AM
    Your fate is sealed with predestination but you have free-will which will decide the outcome of your predestined fate.

    Because God is a mobster boss of a casino in the desert. You're just a bum playing one of his cosmic games. A game that is rigged. The House always cashes in. A game he knows the results of but you have to play because you don't know the results. Why does he let you suffer through this? Only to have your knees broken at the end of the night? We don't know. Why create a fucking casino in the desert? We don't know.

    The cosmic game; you never asked to participate but you're now forced to. It's like that Russian roulette scene in Deer Hunter and you're Robert De Niro. There's some insane Vietnamese angel shouting "DI DI MAU! DI DI MAU!" and you're playing for your eternal soul. This is God basically:

    (Clicky for piccy!)

    He's just crazier-looking. And doesn't lose.


    Check this vid - applies for Islam

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5auJ3Dg-zNs
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #34 - November 05, 2010, 12:24 PM
    Quote from: Lukatic on November 05, 2010, 12:15 PM

    When Islam is against idol worshipper, but Muslims pray and prostrate towards Kaaba, and literally worship the Black Stone (Al-Hajar-ul-Aswad).


    Is it worship? I mean do you have to kiss the black stone? What does kissing the black stone mean? Is it like kissing the Quran? Is veneration same as worship? I would say yes to the last one.

    Is veneration of the Quran an extension of veneration to God? God's word? Or is it some weird idolatry? Where does the line end? At one point you have veneration of the object itself and on the other side veneration of the essence of the object.
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #35 - November 05, 2010, 12:35 PM
    Quote
    At one point you have veneration of the object itself and on the other side veneration of the essence of the object.


    Good point of distinction.

    Surely that is how many that Islam describes as 'idol worshippers' view their own practise?

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #36 - November 05, 2010, 12:46 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on November 05, 2010, 07:41 AM
    OK let's put it this way Quran says man and woman are equal but yet you need 2 female witnesses for one male witness. And the inheritance laws for women are not equal; daughters inherit half of the sons. Men are the maintainers of women etc.

    The point of equal but different is within an Islamic context, there are glaring inequalities between the genders but this sentiment "equal yet different" is parroted with its contradiction neck in tow. Like an albatross around its neck the argument will bring itself down and whoever espouses it.



    Muslims explain the inequalities in inheritance by saying that men get more because men have to provide for women.

    But how do they explain that when an aqiqah is performed, one animal is sacrificed for a girl and 2 animals are sacrificed for a boy? I can't see that being explained in any way other than boys being more valuable than girls.
    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #37 - November 05, 2010, 01:04 PM
    Quote from: Mixu Paatelainen on November 05, 2010, 12:46 PM
    Muslims explain the inequalities in inheritance by saying that men get more because men have to provide for women.

    But how do they explain that when an aqiqah is performed, one animal is sacrificed for a girl and 2 animals are sacrificed for a boy? I can't see that being explained in any way other than boys being more valuable than girls.


    But the first point only makes sense within that traditional islamic framework; the man being the bread earner. But in today's world it's not sustainable to have one income for the household. Besides I think the age of marriage is increasing as well.

    I mean I know the muslim argument but I still feel its unfair, especially in today's world where marital roles have changed and are still changing.

    I honestly wonder how many parents follow this rule when they write their testament. It's archaic but yet when you divide the riches equally, isn't that bidaa? If it’s not following the command of God, are they not breaking the command of God? Or do you not have to follow that rule rigidly?
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #38 - November 05, 2010, 01:14 PM
    Quote from: billy on November 05, 2010, 12:35 PM
    Good point of distinction.

    Surely that is how many that Islam describes as 'idol worshippers' view their own practise?




    Yes exactly. Ancestry worship is not (at least to one guy that explained it to me) not worshiping your ancestors, you can be a Christian and still "pray" to your ancestors. I don't know the full details.

    Christians might not venerate the cross itself, its a way to get closer. Or statues of the Virgn Mary etc

    Same goes for statues of Buddha.

    Or statues of Gods and Goddesses in Hinduism.

    These various forms of statue-worshipping seem to come from animist roots, and then the statutes and objects evolved to become focal points for ones worship.


    The pagan arabs, some might have actually venerated the objects, and some used the statues to get closer to their Gods. And their Gods was a way to get closer to God.

    Muslims will say we face Kaaba, we don't pray to Kaaba, we don't worship Kaaba. Then pray tell, what is the kissing the Quran about? Or being extremly careful when handling it. What is the Black Stone about?

    How come muslims can define the boundaries, but when magnified the lines seem blurred. Pointing this out will cause outrage. Imagine calling a muslim an idolater, the irony. Yet muslims go around accusing other religions of idolatry and make snide, spiteful remarks as well, at best, and worst, violent threats.
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #39 - November 05, 2010, 01:27 PM
    You'll find that a lot of the Islamic reasons for women being  half a witness etc.  Boils down to " because God said so". Same thing with why homosexuals should be killed.  When you start asking for real applicable reasons why things are that way the conversation devolves into agricultural based stereotypes.  Men are stronger than women, need to protect women on and on.  The problem also is that it doesn't allow for exceptions based on the reality of the situation.  Does a MMA woman fighter need a physical protector?  Does the protector have to be physically more capable? Mentally more capable?  What if the woman outclasses in both of these? Have there been actual studies to show that women are half as reliable as men as witnesses? Etc. 
    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #40 - November 05, 2010, 01:31 PM
    I'm not sure this counts as a paradox or a contradiction but it amuses me.

    Music is haram, singing is haram, and melody is haram. Yet reciting the Quran in a harmony, to a beat (rhythm) and with a melody is not. Neither is sing-song voice of the adhan.
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #41 - November 05, 2010, 01:35 PM
    BlackDog, I agree with all of that re: idol worshipping and how it is defined.

    Seems to me that at some level if you practise a religion there is some form of meditational focus.

    Hence the cross, Buddha statue. What else is praying to Mecca from around the world five times a day?

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #42 - November 05, 2010, 01:44 PM
    Well, unless it is the House Of God. In a literal sense. But I doubt that, at least I haven't read sources that Mohamamd believed God really lived there.


    Edit:

    I made myself lol but at the same time God is everywhere, so does God then not live there?

    What I want to know, how literal were the beliefs at one point?

    Did people believe Shaitan really pissed in your ears? And that's where earwax comes from? Iblis' dried urine cakes.
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #43 - November 05, 2010, 01:52 PM
    Exactly!
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #44 - November 05, 2010, 01:54 PM
    ZOMG THEN WTF IS THAT DRIED YELLOW CRUST IN THE CORNER OF YOUR EYES!!!!!




    *Looks up at the sky, raises fist and shouts "IBLIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIISSSSS!!!"*
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #45 - November 05, 2010, 02:06 PM
    Quote from: Mixu Paatelainen on November 05, 2010, 12:46 PM
    Muslims explain the inequalities in inheritance by saying that men get more because men have to provide for women.

    But how do they explain that when an aqiqah is performed, one animal is sacrificed for a girl and 2 animals are sacrificed for a boy? I can't see that being explained in any way other than boys being more valuable than girls.


    According to Muhammed, if a man is kind to his daughters it will be easier for him to get into heaven.

    The PA TV has found it necessary to remind the male population of this.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1-TvDtzUXc&feature=player_embedded
    Like a compass needle that points north, a man?s accusing finger always finds a woman. Always.

    Khaled Hosseini - A thousand splendid suns.
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #46 - November 05, 2010, 02:09 PM
    omfg they have to make infomercials like that?  mysmilie_977
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #47 - November 05, 2010, 02:22 PM
    Quote from: Paloma on November 05, 2010, 02:06 PM
    According to Muhammed, if a man is kind to his daughters it will be easier for him to get into heaven.


    Hmmmmmm Thinking hard

    Dad..... could you wire a few grand into my bank account. Kthnxbai  Kiss
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #48 - November 05, 2010, 02:31 PM
    Just thought I'd point out there there is such a thing as smokeless fire, but you can't make anything of it because fire is a chemical process not a substance.

    God knows everything, yet for some reason everyone has two angels writing down everything you do.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #49 - November 05, 2010, 02:40 PM
    Quote from: Paloma on November 05, 2010, 02:06 PM
    According to Muhammed, if a man is kind to his daughters it will be easier for him to get into heaven.


    yes , women were curses back then so he told them that if by coincidence you have three daughters and you got them all married god will reward you with a high rank in heaven .
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #50 - November 05, 2010, 03:04 PM
    Quote from: Poopycock on November 05, 2010, 02:22 PM
    Hmmmmmm Thinking hard

    Dad..... could you wire a few grand into my bank account. Kthnxbai  Kiss


    Nah, the kindness extends only to feeding and clothing so no dice.
    Like a compass needle that points north, a man?s accusing finger always finds a woman. Always.

    Khaled Hosseini - A thousand splendid suns.
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #51 - November 05, 2010, 04:09 PM
    Quote from: Paloma on November 05, 2010, 03:04 PM
    Nah, the kindness extends only to feeding and clothing so no dice.


    Curses! Foiled again!  finmad
  • Re: Paradoxes and Contradictions in Islamic Theology
     Reply #52 - November 05, 2010, 04:36 PM
    You dont clothes shop?
    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
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