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Theme Changer

 Poll

  • Question: Do you think you will write one with a view to publish?
  • Yes, I think they are important and I'm currently in the process of writing one - 4 (17.4%)
  • Yes, I think it's important but not until I am safe/ready - 7 (30.4%)
  • No, I do think it's important, but I won't be writing one - 3 (13%)
  • I would but I am not sure my story is interesting enough - 9 (39.1%)
  • Total Voters: 22

 Topic: Ex muslim biographies

 (Read 5957 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Ex muslim biographies
     OP - April 13, 2011, 10:14 PM

    How many published ex muslim biographies are there to date?

    Does anybody know?

    I'm asking because one of the things (along with others lol) that stops me from writing an actual biography with the aim of publication and exposure, is that I don't like the "fad" it feels like to me.  Plus, they seem to be somewhat dismissed as fiction at times.

    However I've recently been reading about the importance of biographies in freeing a set of oppressed people, regardless of if the biography is dismissed as fiction by people who don't want to accept it, because in fact some biographies were written in a way that has a fictional narrative style to it specifically for that reason.  

    I don't think I exaggerate when I say many ex muslims feel oppressed by the religion still, or how limited people's understanding can be in the issues apostates face when leaving Islam.  Like, where do ex muslim boys/men run to if they fear for their lives in a country (UK) that places more concern on females in danger?  girls and women have many options available to them for help and support if they need to get free from Islam.

    So, then I guess one way for us to continue getting the message out is biographies?

    (it's not like I didn't know it before, but it was really understanding how much it began to shift preconcieved notions of race that made me really rethink the way I view the current trend of writing a biography)

    Does anybody have an idea of how many biographies are out there so far?

    Do you agree that there needs to be less fear and more biographies? or that they are extremely important?

    Still feels somewhat faddish to me but, whenever people have said to me I should write mine with a view for publication because my "story has to be told", I never really understood them, just seemed like talk to me.  

    Place your votes, and post your views.  


    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Ex muslim biographies
     Reply #1 - April 13, 2011, 10:16 PM

    I think it's an important process because it allows the 'ex-muslim movement' to have personal faces and thus add a human element to it.
    However, I chose the last option, my de-conversion was not very interesting.

    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Ex muslim biographies
     Reply #2 - April 13, 2011, 10:22 PM

    I think it's an important process because it allows the 'ex-muslim movement' to have personal faces and thus add a human element to it.
    However, I chose the last option, my de-conversion was not very interesting.



    I mean more than just the deconversion, because isn't our whole life a part of that process?  or should the ex muslim biography be more about the deconversion as it is triggered and followed through?



    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Ex muslim biographies
     Reply #3 - April 13, 2011, 10:25 PM

    Well, I don't want to make any generalisations about what should or should not be in a biography. However, if your whole life has a connection to your de-conversion then it should be included. Especially if your past, like yours, was a struggle against cultural practices that were sanctioned by Islam.

    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Ex muslim biographies
     Reply #4 - April 13, 2011, 10:56 PM

    I have no idea how many Ex-m biographies are out there. 2500?

    If people who know you have said that you must write it, they may be right.

    Fad or not, why let your desire for being original and unconventional prevent you from helping others? Just write it differently.

    "That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
  • Re: Ex muslim biographies
     Reply #5 - April 13, 2011, 11:04 PM

    Well, I don't want to make any generalisations about what should or should not be in a biography. However, if your whole life has a connection to your de-conversion then it should be included. Especially if your past, like yours, was a struggle against cultural practices that were sanctioned by Islam.


    Yea, I guess.  I was more thinking in relation to all of us.  Our life experiences shaped us, whether it was my sort of past, or a calmer past, it is still a past.  I get where you're coming from though. 



    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Ex muslim biographies
     Reply #6 - April 13, 2011, 11:07 PM

    I have no idea how many Ex-m biographies are out there. 2500?


    I'm not sure there are that many.  Sadly I can only think of 2, Hirsi and Warraq.  I know I know more, I just can't think of more beyond those two better know figures.  Need some sleep.


    Quote
    If people who know you have said that you must write it, they may be right.

    Fad or not, why let your desire for being original and unconventional prevent you from helping others? Just write it differently.



    I did also say, the fad was a reason among others.  Others being I don't want the exposure on a larger scale.  Really, this internet world of short bios on forums, blogs etc, reaches many, but in many ways is still on a smaller scale than having your name known.

    I'm not ready for that part.

    I voted the 2nd option.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Ex muslim biographies
     Reply #7 - April 13, 2011, 11:14 PM

    Just take a pseudonym. You will be accused of being a closet jew in ether case. In my opinion writing under a pseudonym is less suspicious and more trustworthy in general.

    "That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
  • Re: Ex muslim biographies
     Reply #8 - April 13, 2011, 11:18 PM

    I dunno about a proper biography, but if it is a long essay, I might be tempted.
    One of the reasons I joined this forum was to get my story off my chest because I only told a few people about the shit I was going through and I felt it was a story worth recording on the internet.  To be honest, I now feel I have largely done so in amongst all my posts.  I guess it would be good if it was all written in one essay instead.  Perhaps I will one day sit down and write my story and anonymously publish it via scribd or something.  I just feel a little uncomfortable writing about personal/family matters, particularly if people could trace them to me in real life.

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: Ex muslim biographies
     Reply #9 - April 13, 2011, 11:22 PM

    Just take a pseudonym. You will be accused of being a closet jew in ether case. In my opinion writing under a pseudonym is less suspicious and more trustworthy in general.


    How so?   wacko

    Also, pseudonym's are weak, a good reporter could find out who you were easy. 

    It's not just exposure. Or fads, it's so many things.  I don't believe a biography can be told without telling everything.  Biographies that don't explore a person's life from their birth don't capture me as much since it's not the whole picture.  There are parts of my life I haven't ever talked about with anyone.  I'm not ready to.  Let alone a wider audience. I don't even think about these parts if I can help it either.

    Then you have my surprising desire not to hurt my parents, even though I don't talk to them anymore.

    I will do it, it's just a case of when, and when is not now.   Smiley


    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Ex muslim biographies
     Reply #10 - April 13, 2011, 11:26 PM

    I dunno about a proper biography, but if it is a long essay, I might be tempted.
    One of the reasons I joined this forum was to get my story off my chest because I only told a few people about the shit I was going through and I felt it was a story worth recording on the internet.  To be honest, I now feel I have largely done so in amongst all my posts.  I guess it would be good if it was all written in one essay instead.  Perhaps I will one day sit down and write my story and anonymously publish it via scribd or something.  I just feel a little uncomfortable writing about personal/family matters, particularly if people could trace them to me in real life.


    Yep.  Similar, I'm just not ready even though I do discuss many of those things on here.  Here I am anonymous, only a few people here know my real name or what I look like and I prefer to keep it that way.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Ex muslim biographies
     Reply #11 - April 13, 2011, 11:30 PM

    Well, if apostasy is not the only important issue in your bio then I would be inclined to believe it even  more.

    Why do I think that pseudonym makes it more honest?

    Well, then the motivation for writing out of vanity, to get attention, self-promote in order to become some kind of expert (or just a celebrity) is gone for one. What's the point of embellishing your story too much if you will not get sympathy from anyone who read about your horrific experience? Those are off the top of my head, or how you say it. I hope there's a way to stay solidly anonymous.

    "That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
  • Re: Ex muslim biographies
     Reply #12 - April 13, 2011, 11:33 PM

    Well, if apostasy is not the only important issue in your bio then I would be inclined to believe it even  more.

    Why do I think that pseudonym makes it more honest?

    Well, then the motivation for writing out of vanity, to get attention, self-promote in order to become some kind of expert (or just a celebrity) is gone for one. What's the point of embellishing your story too much if you will not get sympathy from anyone who read about your horrific experience? Those are off the top of my head, or how you say it. I hope there's a way to stay solidly anonymous.


    Some interesting reasons ALM.  I hadn't ever seen it that way.  I always saw it as if you weren't prepared to stand behind your real face and say what you have to say, how can anyone believe you?

    Courage of your convictions etc.


    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Ex muslim biographies
     Reply #13 - April 13, 2011, 11:34 PM

    I used to think so too Smiley

    "That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
  • Re: Ex muslim biographies
     Reply #14 - April 13, 2011, 11:42 PM

     I voted second. I don't think an interesting biography needs to have interesting circumstances as a requirement.
    Personally i view my life with Islam growing up as Normal. I was hardly pressured with it . I think the shitty circumstances had more to do with culture ( which is obviously influenced by Islam)  I'd be quite interested in writing a few pages for the sole reason of reflection & closure. and maybe share it with a few selected at first, but that's just me .

    In your case , i'd say , since you like to write , and you seem interested in the Ex muslim movement. I'd go for it.Although, i understand your story is a strong one, which i would imagine muslims not relating to (rather thinking oh, she's playing the victim card) I would advise you to present in a way that not only shows what you went through, but what your father/mother/husband also went through in regards to how Islam molded their actions, beliefs. ( goes without saying , this can't be generalized towards all muslims)

    It all kind of depends actually , whose the average reader?

    "Tomorrow is the today you were worried about yesterday" Unknown
  • Re: Ex muslim biographies
     Reply #15 - April 13, 2011, 11:47 PM

    ALEX has a good point. It relates to what i initially thought. When i read a biography, i look for something to relate to ( the common human part, humbleness)  otherwise i'm just reading for amusement and usually don't finish the book.
    Unless it's already a subject/position of interest. Then i look for Ideas to consider.

    Hence , my question, Whose the average reader?

    "Tomorrow is the today you were worried about yesterday" Unknown
  • Re: Ex muslim biographies
     Reply #16 - April 13, 2011, 11:58 PM

    I voted second. I don't think an interesting biography needs to have interesting circumstances as a requirement.
    Personally i view my life with Islam growing up as Normal. I was hardly pressured with it . I think the shitty circumstances had more to do with culture ( which is obviously influenced by Islam)  I'd be quite interested in writing a few pages for the sole reason of reflection & closure. and maybe share it with a few selected at first, but that's just me .

    In your case , i'd say , since you like to write , and you seem interested in the Ex muslim movement. I'd go for it.Although, i understand your story is a strong one, which i would imagine muslims not relating to (rather thinking oh, she's playing the victim card) I would advise you to present in a way that not only shows what you went through, but what your father/mother/husband also went through in regards to how Islam molded their actions, beliefs. ( goes without saying , this can't be generalized towards all muslims)


    No of course.  If I decided to write a book I would flesh out the details on all of those things, as the online bio is only the bare bones.

    However this point about the victim card, I don't think any fleshing out would really detract from those who wished to label it so.  It helps them dismiss it.

    I remember when I went through a trend of reading books about muslim women in horrible circumstances.  Parvin darabi, the princess books, Hirsi's Infidel and caged virgin, Nawal El Saadawi and others, and people I knew dismissed them, some for the victim card, and some as works of fiction, lies of the jews lol.

    Will never be able to please them all.

    Quote

    It all kind of depends actually , whose the average reader?


    Not really sure  wacko

    I would say muslim women, westernised or longing to be free.  Since I read them during this time aswell, much to the anger of those around me.  Ex muslim women, many of them are well read.  Possibly the men too, but not really muslim men.

    But wider world?

    Well, I know a handful of people who know who Hirsi is, or have read her book, but not many.

    Plus, In the name of honour, and books similar to that end up in the prominant display position in books shops, meaning that average readers scoping for new books will pick them up and check the back.  Or at least I would have thought so.

    ^^ No doubt you can tell, marketing is not my strong suit.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Ex muslim biographies
     Reply #17 - April 14, 2011, 04:11 AM

    I relate to that, I'd  basically have "people like me" in mind as well.

    I agree, those who want to dismiss it , will do so regardless. It baffles me to hear conspiracy theories like the ones you mentioned. I guess it serves as confirmation that Islam is "Important/special" enough to conspire against. The Victim card adequately bounced back at them.

    I'd also start off with providing an email address as contact information, not necessarily my real name, and take it from there.( since your posting it on line)
    Having biographies out there concerning leaving Islam is definitely a good thing, as long as you weigh it's direct effects on your daily life and decide accordingly.




    "Tomorrow is the today you were worried about yesterday" Unknown
  • Re: Ex muslim biographies
     Reply #18 - April 14, 2011, 04:36 AM

    @Sexy-foot

    Just thought of another reason you should do it anonymously. All close relationships involve some painful memories. No one wants to be reminded of it, but everyone's affected. Instead of worrying about your close ones and possibly sugarcoating some things you can concentrate on telling the whole truth without hurting anyone. Anonymous wins again!

    "That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
  • Re: Ex muslim biographies
     Reply #19 - April 14, 2011, 09:47 AM

    Berbs

    The publishing industry is extremely difficult to break into. Getting a book deal is incredibly difficult. With biographies and memoirs, often the person has to have a public profile before any publisher will consider giving the writer a contract, because there is instantly scope for marketing and name recognition. I've noticed that journalists write memoirs, especially in the niche section of 'ethnic minority' writers. I'm thinking of Satnam Sanghera, a British Indian journalist of Sikh origin who writes for The Times. His memoir was actually very decent, about growing up in an Indian immigrant family with a father who had scizophrenia in the 1980's and 1990's. There have been a number of memoirs by British Muslim journalists who have written about 'being Muslim', like Sarfraz Manzoor, and a few by female journalists too, the most recent off the top of my head is a British Pakistani journalist called Zaiba Malik who just published a memoir. Unfortunately this is the nature of publishing these days, you really do have to have contacts and be within a circle, its a very incestuous world. Even Ayaan Hirsi Ali had a certain profile before writing.

    This however is not a reason not to write and try to get published. I personally would love to read more life stories like yours. You have a very good sense of humour and a cutting eye and self awareness that would probably blast alot of these kinds of genre books out of the water. Apart from Ayaan, has there really been that many accounts of absolute rejection and dissent from Islam? I can't think of many, and that is partly because, I think, of another problem. The level of critique of Islam that you would narrate might be too close to the bone for some or most publishers. The spectre of self-censorship out of fear, Islamic bullying, the slander of 'Islamophobia' still holds sway over large parts of the liberal media.

    I think the stories of ex Muslims are arguably the most important voices that need to be heard in contemporary Britain, so I think this is not just shameful, its morally negligent, especially as the countervailing dawah-ist self-image of Islam is propounded without reflection so widely. Voices of dissent and rejection have to be allowed to have air and breathe as a matter of urgency, and we have talked about the reasons why so many times on this forum.

    There is an alternative though. Self publishing has begun to change the scene. Technologies now allow a collective to write, edit and publish, selling hard copies through Amazon, or via Kindle and other readers. This would allow as a long term project, individuals like you along with others from CEMB, to author essays about why you left Islam, both as a permanent record and piece of hard literature that can be referred to, sold, given away, used as TESTIMONY for all ex Muslims to begin to make their voice heard, distributed to journalists and opinion formers in British society, especially those who accept the claims of Islam and dawah-merchants unquestioningly. It could be addressed to the issues at hand, why it is so important for the precepts of Islam to be challenged on a theological level, and on a macro level when it comes to the issue of Islamic Ummah Identity politics. It would also be an entry into formal writing for yourself, and be somtething on your resume, for when you finally get to tackle that long form memoir / biography with an eye to possibly getting a book deal from a publisher.

    Just a thought. I think the impact of it could be great.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Ex muslim biographies
     Reply #20 - June 06, 2011, 10:44 AM

    I was born to read and write. Literally, and i'd always had a passion to write short stories and the like, but since i've apostated, i have this urge within me to write about my life, and (weak) struggle out of Islam. But i fear it is not interesting enough, the more i think about it the more it seems best not to; "thus conscious makes cowards of us all"  wacko
  • Re: Ex muslim biographies
     Reply #21 - June 09, 2011, 02:52 PM

    I wanna write one in Arabic but my Arabic is not good enough. My english isnt that good either.
  • Re: Ex muslim biographies
     Reply #22 - June 09, 2011, 03:02 PM

    Berbs

    The publishing industry is extremely difficult to break into. Getting a book deal is incredibly difficult. With biographies and memoirs, often the person has to have a public profile before any publisher will consider giving the writer a contract, because there is instantly scope for marketing and name recognition. I've noticed that journalists write memoirs, especially in the niche section of 'ethnic minority' writers. I'm thinking of Satnam Sanghera, a British Indian journalist of Sikh origin who writes for The Times. His memoir was actually very decent, about growing up in an Indian immigrant family with a father who had scizophrenia in the 1980's and 1990's. There have been a number of memoirs by British Muslim journalists who have written about 'being Muslim', like Sarfraz Manzoor, and a few by female journalists too, the most recent off the top of my head is a British Pakistani journalist called Zaiba Malik who just published a memoir. Unfortunately this is the nature of publishing these days, you really do have to have contacts and be within a circle, its a very incestuous world. Even Ayaan Hirsi Ali had a certain profile before writing.


    Yeah, I know it won;t be easy.  I'm not even sure I will attempt it simply because I still struggle with having it online where only a small portion of the world will actually ever really see it.

    Quote

    This however is not a reason not to write and try to get published. I personally would love to read more life stories like yours. You have a very good sense of humour and a cutting eye and self awareness that would probably blast alot of these kinds of genre books out of the water. Apart from Ayaan, has there really been that many accounts of absolute rejection and dissent from Islam? I can't think of many, and that is partly because, I think, of another problem. The level of critique of Islam that you would narrate might be too close to the bone for some or most publishers. The spectre of self-censorship out of fear, Islamic bullying, the slander of 'Islamophobia' still holds sway over large parts of the liberal media.


    Thanks Smiley


    Quote


    I think the stories of ex Muslims are arguably the most important voices that need to be heard in contemporary Britain, so I think this is not just shameful, its morally negligent, especially as the countervailing dawah-ist self-image of Islam is propounded without reflection so widely. Voices of dissent and rejection have to be allowed to have air and breathe as a matter of urgency, and we have talked about the reasons why so many times on this forum.


    I really agree.  Literature has been used to give the sub altern a voice before, and TBH I feel that ex muslims are bracketed that way.  If what we have to say cuts too close, and the chances of getting published still rest upon a publishers courage to push the ex muslim voice to the front, then that is exactly what we are, voiceless and unrepresented.

    I hear people calling ex muslim biographies a fad.

    I hear ex muslims saying they don;t think theirs are interesting enough.

    But then again, how many black writers in a time when black writers found it hard to be published, or indeed how many women in the west, in a time when women weren't published, stood there and asked themselves the same very questions?

    is my voice really that important?  yes it is.

    But so many others are doing it.....err as I said, why let that stop you?  I don;t doubt people thought woman writers and black writers were a fad too.  Fad is a word that society uses to ascribe to behaviour it wants to see the back of.

    Quote

    There is an alternative though. Self publishing has begun to change the scene. Technologies now allow a collective to write, edit and publish, selling hard copies through Amazon, or via Kindle and other readers. This would allow as a long term project, individuals like you along with others from CEMB, to author essays about why you left Islam, both as a permanent record and piece of hard literature that can be referred to, sold, given away, used as TESTIMONY for all ex Muslims to begin to make their voice heard, distributed to journalists and opinion formers in British society, especially those who accept the claims of Islam and dawah-merchants unquestioningly. It could be addressed to the issues at hand, why it is so important for the precepts of Islam to be challenged on a theological level, and on a macro level when it comes to the issue of Islamic Ummah Identity politics. It would also be an entry into formal writing for yourself, and be somtething on your resume, for when you finally get to tackle that long form memoir / biography with an eye to possibly getting a book deal from a publisher.

    Just a thought. I think the impact of it could be great.




    I'll have to consider that.  My uni course will deal with self publishing and normal publishing.  I'm hoping this in itself would give some contacts since I will get work experience in a publishers.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Ex muslim biographies
     Reply #23 - June 14, 2011, 05:36 AM

    The only non-internet mainstream biography I read a long while back was by Irshad Manji - she is somewhat of a weasel about her words so I don't really know if she considered herself a non-Muslim. By the end of her book, I got the impression that she wasn't the sharpest individual, having a tabloidish/sensational approach to her arguments/ideas - I was left slightly annoyed and my position not at all challenged.  This was when I was still firmly a theist, but trying to take baby steps.  Now contrast that with the biography I read by Hassan online.  I don't want to go into how impressed I was (and I was) but what I found really appealing about his story is that interlaced with the story of his life were some sound arguments with all the firmness of a skeptic but none of the hate-filled sensationalist tricks I'd seen others use.  This approach is probably a personal preference, which is probably why I enjoy reading Derren Brown's works because he has some absolute gems littered throughout.

    So even if it is a fad, I think for those who are brave enough to put a face to their story, you may just find someone that story will 'click' with.

    oh, and never underestimate the value of a good editor.
  • Re: Ex muslim biographies
     Reply #24 - June 14, 2011, 05:45 AM

    I wanna write one in Arabic but my Arabic is not good enough. My english isnt that good either.

    Which language do u speak good then? o.0
  • Re: Ex muslim biographies
     Reply #25 - June 14, 2011, 05:48 AM

    I have actual given this much thought.
    I am considering actually writing a biography and somehow get it published.
    I have written a book before in lik 7th grade (unpublished however), so idt it would be a problem.
    I would actually really love for people to read my story and see if they can relate, or have someone to relate to.

    However, I am waiting until my "story" is finished.
    When my life is stable and everything is good.
    Which wont be for a few years ahead of me, but it is something that I am considering doing.

    && since ii am going into the film industry, ii would also consider making an ex-Muslim movie/short film.

  • Re: Ex muslim biographies
     Reply #26 - June 14, 2011, 07:15 AM

    Which language do u speak good then? o.0


    Arabic is my native language, so of course I speak it well, and I think my English is fairly good. But I'm not book-writing level at any of them. I can only write technical/engineering reports in English and that's it.
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