Circumstantial Apostacy?

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Circumstantial Apostacy?
OP - January 12, 2011, 06:13 AM

Whenever expressing any thoughts that contradict religion or cultural expectations in any way I'm often given replies like:

"The only reason you even think this way is because you were raised in the West"

"Had you grown up in Pakistan/saudi arabia/afghanistan/etc you wouldnt even question these things."

"We raised you in a too open-minded environment, had we been more strict you wouldnt argue"

and then they proceed with telling me that I should be "thankful" they were so liberal with me and stop resisting... I don't really see how these things are related but they sure sound valid when said by emotionally distraught family members..

Has anyone here gotten anything similar? How would you react?

I usually point out that there are many people who have grown up under the same circumstances as me but are still devout, or that there are others who have been raised under strict religious doctrines but are also apostates or doubtful..

Quod est inferius est sicut quod est superius,
et quod est superius est sicut quod est inferius,
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Re: Circumstantial Apostacy?
Reply #1 - January 12, 2011, 06:17 AM

I'd also wonder what was the point of letting me grow up in a liberal environment if in the end I was expected to obey what I was told?

yes of course I'm thankful my parents aren't fundamentalists but does that honestly mean I'm supposed "owe" them and agree with whatever they say in return?

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et quod est superius est sicut quod est inferius,
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Re: Circumstantial Apostacy?
Reply #2 - January 12, 2011, 08:42 AM

Quote from: belladonnasix on January 12, 2011, 06:13 AM
and then they proceed with telling me that I should be "thankful" they were so liberal with me and stop resisting... I don't really see how these things are related but they sure sound valid when said by emotionally distraught family members..

and

Quote from: belladonnasix on January 12, 2011, 06:17 AM
I'd also wonder what was the point of letting me grow up in a liberal environment if in the end I was expected to obey what I was told?

I am sorry to hear that you are getting emotionally blackmailed but the thing to understand here is that your parents didn't really mean to give you a free choice (by letting you grow up in a liberal environment). Such freedom of choice is a mere formal gesture.
The catch is that you were formally given a freedom of choice but you were still supposed to make the "right" choice at the end - you were expected to play a role and rationalize your "free" decision to participate in the tragedy that is Islam and remain a Muslim.
Problem is that you took your free choice seriously - you couldn't live with the cognitive dissonance caused by the fact that you realized that Islam is a rather stupid, inconsistent and self conflicting construction - and left the religion.

Do you "owe" your parents anything? Supposedly your parents want what's best for you. They didn't raise you to be their slave and to blindly follow and obey them did they? They might not realize that but that is not your fault - it's theirs. And you shouldn't feel bad about it. On the bright side - your parents do know that you are an apostate and they haven't disowned you or cut all contact with you which is not too bad really; given enough time they are likely to accept your choice.
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Re: Circumstantial Apostacy?
Reply #3 - January 12, 2011, 11:20 AM

Quote from: belladonnasix on January 12, 2011, 06:13 AM
Whenever expressing any thoughts that contradict religion or cultural expectations in any way I'm often given replies like:

"The only reason you even think this way is because you were raised in the West"

"Had you grown up in Pakistan/saudi arabia/afghanistan/etc you wouldnt even question these things."

"We raised you in a too open-minded environment, had we been more strict you wouldnt argue"

I wouldnt argue against these points, they are mostly right. However that does not make you wrong.

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Re: Circumstantial Apostacy?
Reply #4 - January 12, 2011, 11:23 AM

Quote from: belladonnasix on January 12, 2011, 06:13 AM
"The only reason you even think this way is because you were raised in the West"

Ans: "The only reason you do not is because you weren't"
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Re: Circumstantial Apostacy?
Reply #5 - January 12, 2011, 11:29 AM

if you were raised right, then is it completely implausible to them that you may, in fact, be right?

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Re: Circumstantial Apostacy?
Reply #6 - January 12, 2011, 12:00 PM

Quote from: belladonnasix on January 12, 2011, 06:13 AM
Whenever expressing any thoughts that contradict religion or cultural expectations in any way I'm often given replies like:

"The only reason you even think this way is because you were raised in the West"

"Had you grown up in Pakistan/saudi arabia/afghanistan/etc you wouldnt even question these things."

"We raised you in a too open-minded environment, had we been more strict you wouldnt argue"

and then they proceed with telling me that I should be "thankful" they were so liberal with me and stop resisting... I don't really see how these things are related but they sure sound valid when said by emotionally distraught family members..

Has anyone here gotten anything similar? How would you react?

I usually point out that there are many people who have grown up under the same circumstances as me but are still devout, or that there are others who have been raised under strict religious doctrines but are also apostates or doubtful..

Yes some friends and family have said similar things or say it's because of 911 or because I feel disappointed with Muslims or they say it's because of some bad experiences etc...

It's a natural reaction, because of course Islam itself simply can't be the reason.
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Re: Circumstantial Apostacy?
Reply #7 - January 12, 2011, 12:33 PM

Its displacement by them, they cannot even countenance that you are right in disdaining religion, and seek to find other explanations and excuses.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

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Re: Circumstantial Apostacy?
Reply #8 - January 12, 2011, 02:07 PM

Quote from: belladonnasix on January 12, 2011, 06:13 AM
Whenever expressing any thoughts that contradict religion or cultural expectations in any way I'm often given replies like:

"The only reason you even think this way is because you were raised in the West"

"Had you grown up in Pakistan/saudi arabia/afghanistan/etc you wouldnt even question these things."

"We raised you in a too open-minded environment, had we been more strict you wouldnt argue"

and then they proceed with telling me that I should be "thankful" they were so liberal with me and stop resisting... I don't really see how these things are related but they sure sound valid when said by emotionally distraught family members..

Has anyone here gotten anything similar? How would you react?

I usually point out that there are many people who have grown up under the same circumstances as me but are still devout, or that there are others who have been raised under strict religious doctrines but are also apostates or doubtful..

I have had different reactions - my mum tends to bury her head in the sand, its easier to do that than accept that Islam maybe at fault. One 'elder' individual shouted down to me and humiliated me in front of everyone. Next day, she said it wasnt my fault and the internet polluted my mind.. With my muslim peers, it felt as if I was talking to robots who had been programmed - instead of a discussion or even an acknowledgment of what I had said, it would be Koran is the word of God, it has remained pure for 1400 years, islam is the true religion etc
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Re: Circumstantial Apostacy?
Reply #9 - June 28, 2011, 07:21 PM

Life sucks.

Rather be forgotten than remembered for giving in.
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Re: Circumstantial Apostacy?
Reply #10 - June 28, 2011, 07:23 PM

That's how this thread makes me feel

Because yes, I can relate to this exactly. My mom loves to say this sort of stuff to me when I talk to her about anything related to religion and culture. She comes on so strong, and they don't even know I'm an apostate yet.

Kenan, your response is ace. I feel like I should save it and show it to my parents when the time comes.. excluding the harsh insults of Islam might be a good idea though

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Re: Circumstantial Apostacy?
Reply #11 - June 28, 2011, 08:10 PM

Quote from: belladonnasix on January 12, 2011, 06:13 AM
"The only reason you even think this way is because you were raised in the West"

"Had you grown up in Pakistan/saudi arabia/afghanistan/etc you wouldnt even question these things."

"We raised you in a too open-minded environment, had we been more strict you wouldnt argue"

Yes, quite a lot. Also that if I had a strict father it would have taught me to be a “better” fearful Muslim. The other argument I really hate is, "You want to be English, and fit in". I think I've been told this even when wearing a nice sherwani once. Yes I like sherwanis. But anyway ...

Quote from: belladonnasix on January 12, 2011, 06:13 AM
Has anyone here gotten anything similar? How would you react?

Two things:
- Yes, you and I would have been more likely to be indoctrinated like our parents if we grew up in that culture. Conversely, they would have become like us given the choice of freedom to think.
- But the wider truth is this: you family migrated to the West for a better life. They wanted to escape to a less corrupt and more developed nation. The roots of such a nation start with allowing people to think liberally. They might not take any offence at all the benefits of being in the West (a thriving economy, safe environment, political stability, better healthcare, better education, better laws, better freedoms, technological advancement, etc). But the things they do find offensive (such as liberal thinking or asking “Why?” or “What if?”) with respect to Islam is the crux of what gives them all these benefits in the first place. It is not possible to be an advance nation AND have a backward set of values. Moreover, Islam hides such obvious realities like this from them.

Quote from: belladonnasix on January 12, 2011, 06:17 AM
yes of course I'm thankful my parents aren't fundamentalists but does that honestly mean I'm supposed "owe" them and agree with whatever they say in return?

Not at all if you disagree with it based on the values you've acquired which I think should be promoted and trump any backward thinking they still try to enforce on you, if any. Tactfully of course.

It's not an easy situation. But I do believe in a firm "NO" to any emotional blackmail.

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