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Theme Changer

 Topic: An Error in the Qur'an to Prove its Fallibility

 (Read 5294 times)
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  • An Error in the Qur'an to Prove its Fallibility
     OP - July 26, 2011, 07:52 PM

    Hello all,

    I have just finished having a discussion about evidence for the Qur'an's divinity with a good Muslim friend of mine. We came to a stale mate of sorts, in that all miraculous claims he could identify were far from definitive and highly open to interpretation, and that all falsehoods I could think of (errors in embryology, sun orbiting earth, etc.) could also be interpreted differently, apparently. My friend has the advantage that he speaks Arabic. I do not. He ended up claiming what I facetiously described as "the miracle of ambiguity". I.e. it is amazing in itself that every verse used to prove or disprove Mo's revelation claims can be interpreted in multiple ways such that no definitive argument can be made. If, my friend promises, I can find a verse in the Qur'an that unambiguously makes a scientific claim that is known to be false, he will become a deist.

    Now look. I am well aware that this is just mental masturbation and folly amongst two friends. Nothing I say will cause an immediate change of heart; I am not so naive, but for the sake of gay banter, I request your input...

    What statements are there in the Qur'an that are as close to being unambiguously falsifiable as one might hope for? I shall ask my friend to rate your efforts and the winner shall be rewarded with some sort of prize.
  • Re: An Error in the Qur'an to Prove its Fallibility
     Reply #1 - July 26, 2011, 08:16 PM

    I've having this same conversation with who man, and I had a similar converstation with a muslim friend today.

    I'll try to get back to you.

    What prize? dance
  • Re: An Error in the Qur'an to Prove its Fallibility
     Reply #2 - July 26, 2011, 08:47 PM

    We came to a stale mate of sorts, in that all miraculous claims he could identify were far from definitive and highly open to interpretation, and that all falsehoods I could think of (errors in embryology, sun orbiting earth, etc.) could also be interpreted differently, apparently


    I come across it alot, its a ridiculous argument and easily proven to be so if you apply it to any other religious book instead.
    If you pre-believe something to be true and have infinite flexibility for interpretation and explanation, then outside of numbers, exactly how many things really can actually be verifiably proven false?

    Well, seeing as we have a historical basis for the Adam and Eve story from pagan religions and verifiably false, Its pretty much guaranteed that he will either say:
    a) Its not a science-based story, its a metaphor.
    b) The other previous religion is the corrupt one.
    c) Coincidence.

    So try these:
    The hour drew nigh and the moon was rent in twain. 54:1
    Was the moon ever split in two?

    7:54
    ...He created the sun, the moon, and the stars, (all) governed by laws under His command...

    So the sun isn't a star?

    Who created the seven heavens one above another; you see no incongruity in the creation of the Beneficent Allah; then look again, can you see any disorder? 67:3

    No black holes?

    And the thunder declares His glory with His praise, and the angels too for awe of Him; and He sends the thunderbolts and smites with them whom He pleases, yet they dispute concerning Allah, and He is mighty in prowess. 13:13
    So how to 'thunderbolts' work, exactly?

    Behold! they fold up their hearts, that they may lie hid from Him! 51:49
    Do people think with their hearts or brain?

    And He it is Who sends the winds as good news before His mercy; and We send down pure water from the cloud 25:48
    Rain water has the PH of pure water?

    That sends down (from time to time) rain from the sky in due measure;- and We raise to life therewith a land that is dead; 43:11
    Are desert lands and the middle easts original tropical climate 'due measure'?
    Plants don't need sunlight to grow aswell as water?

    And (He has created) horses, mules, and donkeys, for you to ride and use for show 16:8
    Horses are made for transport? Not a fan of nissans I guess...


    I dont think there is much point going into any actual scientific comparisons, the 'interpretations' can just be rejected or accepted depending on whether he believes its true or not.
    I'll say one thing though: Wahabbi, Alqaeda and Him...they're all muslims following their interpretation are they not? Pretty interesting how we can get such alternate perspectives on a perfect book...perhaps the 'ambiguousness' and 'interpretation' in the quran is a flaw in itself.
  • Re: An Error in the Qur'an to Prove its Fallibility
     Reply #3 - July 26, 2011, 08:58 PM

    My prize! Cry

    Damn you mighty cats!
  • Re: An Error in the Qur'an to Prove its Fallibility
     Reply #4 - July 26, 2011, 08:59 PM

    My prize! Cry

    Damn you mighty cats!


    You can have it, I am just here for the intellectual a** kicking.
  • Re: An Error in the Qur'an to Prove its Fallibility
     Reply #5 - July 26, 2011, 10:48 PM

    I myself made a thread on this board which details the worrying lack of a particular survival tip that the qur’an should really have mentioned, since it mentions the phenomenon itself several times: boiling water.

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=16797.0
  • Re: An Error in the Qur'an to Prove its Fallibility
     Reply #6 - July 26, 2011, 11:08 PM

    I myself made a thread on this board which details the worrying lack of a particular survival tip that the qur’an should really have mentioned.


    It doesn't mention anything direct on subjects that weren't common knowledge at the time, and thats the issue.
    Ofcourse the problem with this blinding reality is that the person in question (person in conversation with the threat creator) can simply pass it off as: 'It doesn't have to say anything, god just wanted to show some signs..'

    This is why its so difficult to become a muslim if you're a skeptic (Because the Quran in no provides evidence of anything beyond-human ramblings)
    and why its so difficult to leave Islam if you're already one (Because there are too many logical fallacies and flawed reasonings to shrug off any issue).

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