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 Topic: Qur'anic Miracles in the Guardian

 (Read 3995 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Qur'anic Miracles in the Guardian
     OP - December 18, 2012, 06:58 PM
    "My journey towards hijab began when I finally moved past all my agnostic swinging of, "Yes I believe", "No I don't" and then back again. The eureka moment came, funnily enough, when reading about the depiction of embryology in the Qur'an. The Arabic word used to describe the embryo in its early stages is 'alaqah', meaning a leech like clot. Scientific advances now illustrate how the embryo initially does indeed act like a leech, clinging to the mother's uterus and obtaining nutrients from her blood. From this revelation I made the jump to the hijab."

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/the-northerner/2012/dec/10/hijab-muslims-women-islam-business-bradford-niqab-burka
  • Qur'anic Miracles in the Guardian
     Reply #1 - December 18, 2012, 08:06 PM
    These are the same people who buy penis enlargement pills/snake oil beauty cream because there is a man wearing a white lab coat in the advert.

    This bloody Keith Moore nonsense is so influential. It is really quite amazing
  • Qur'anic Miracles in the Guardian
     Reply #2 - December 18, 2012, 08:22 PM
    We have contacted the author of that article pointing out the erroneous nature of the embryology claims and sent her a link to Captain Disguise's video.
  • Qur'anic Miracles in the Guardian
     Reply #3 - December 18, 2012, 10:22 PM
    ^ Fantastic! Let’s hope it gets a decent response.
  • Qur'anic Miracles in the Guardian
     Reply #4 - December 18, 2012, 11:03 PM
    Quote from: chris on December 18, 2012, 06:58 PM
    "My journey towards hijab began when I finally moved past all my agnostic swinging of, "Yes I believe", "No I don't" and then back again. The eureka moment came, funnily enough, when reading about the depiction of embryology in the Qur'an. The Arabic word used to describe the embryo in its early stages is 'alaqah', meaning a leech like clot. Scientific advances now illustrate how the embryo initially does indeed act like a leech, clinging to the mother's uterus and obtaining nutrients from her blood. From this revelation I made the jump to the hijab."

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/the-northerner/2012/dec/10/hijab-muslims-women-islam-business-bradford-niqab-burka


    The newspaper actually lets deluded muslims proselytize on it's website  ? I swear i've read similar articles by muslims on the Guardian as well.

    Man you guys really are fighting off an islamic invasion  Tongue
    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Qur'anic Miracles in the Guardian
     Reply #5 - December 19, 2012, 09:52 AM
    Excellent. Do you want to share the corresponance here?
  • Qur'anic Miracles in the Guardian
     Reply #6 - December 19, 2012, 11:53 AM
    Less a correspondence than tweeting a few links to the videos debunking scientific miracles in the Quran claims and wishing her peace - and a reply saying 'Thank You' - she seems to be a nice person

  • Qur'anic Miracles in the Guardian
     Reply #7 - December 19, 2012, 12:26 PM
    How utterly absurd?? How does this Islamic pseudoscience make it into the mainstream media? I highly doubt The Guardian would run an article by a creationist, but this stuff gets by. It's one of the problems with the left in Europe. I hate to sound like a nut but they're waaaay too chummy with Islam and give it concessions they wouldn't give other religions. What's up with you Brits?
  • Qur'anic Miracles in the Guardian
     Reply #8 - December 21, 2012, 04:46 AM
    ^

    Britain and other parts of Europe have been infested with muslim fundamentalists via huge waves of immigration.

    Thank f*** i'm living in north america.
    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Qur'anic Miracles in the Guardian
     Reply #9 - December 21, 2012, 03:14 PM
    I hitchslapped her into silence on twitter

    me 23 hours ago :

    @SyimaAslam funny how the qurans translations change retrospectively and post hoc to fit with modern science. Yay for lingustic gymnastics

    @SyimaAslam can you name me one scientific fact in the quran, yet to be discovered by modern science ?

    @SyimaAslam or any new science directly extrapolated from a religious scripture at the time the scriptures were first given ?

    @SyimaAslam http://tribune.com.pk/story/238607/the-science-of-scriptures/ … … on the pseudoscience of ijaz to validate pre-dispositioned sentimental beliefs

    her REPLY (notice how she dodges my questions)

    - thank you for your interesting comments. What I wrote is not meant as any type of validation of Qur'anic science, on which
    - there are many differing views. I was writing about my own personal experience and what spoke to me - this is not something 
    - that everyone either will agree with or is required to agree with. Thank you for the article, it was a really interesting read

    my 2nd REPLY( which she hasn't answered yet and she has read and not replied to. she has though tweeted other stuff after my last reply)

    @syimaaslam different views?99% of scientists laugh at how religious apologists alter scripture to retrofit it around modern scienc

    @syimaaslam it's considered crank and fringe of a fringe thought in scientific community, on par with the flat earth movement !

    @syimaaslam all u have is charlatans like keith moore and bucaille who were paid very handsomely by saudis and dindani to endorse ijaz

    @SyimaAslam correct me if I'm wrong but did u assume that the duplicitous reinterpreting/retranslating of ancient scriptures to fit in ..1/2

    @SyimaAslam with with modern science had some kind of credibility/integrity amongst a good percentage of scientists ? 2/2














  • Qur'anic Miracles in the Guardian
     Reply #10 - December 21, 2012, 03:34 PM

    She seems quite a nice person.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Qur'anic Miracles in the Guardian
     Reply #11 - December 21, 2012, 03:36 PM
    Quote from: Al-Alethia on December 19, 2012, 12:26 PM
    How utterly absurd?? How does this Islamic pseudoscience make it into the mainstream media? I highly doubt The Guardian would run an article by a creationist, but this stuff gets by. It's one of the problems with the left in Europe. I hate to sound like a nut but they're waaaay too chummy with Islam and give it concessions they wouldn't give other religions. What's up with you Brits?


    They love being scrupulously fair to the "oppressed" ! Roll Eyes
    Quote from: dr_sloth on December 18, 2012, 08:06 PM

    This bloody Keith Moore nonsense is so influential. It is really quite amazing


    He along with Bucaille should rank as two of the most influential men of the 20th century !


    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Qur'anic Miracles in the Guardian
     Reply #12 - December 21, 2012, 03:50 PM
    I've to to understand such people as 'faith first'

    This is not any kind of knock against them, but they believe in Islam in faith and believe God and Mohamed and Islam are good. As a result, anything good in the text is taken.  Anything bad is rejected as in it must be taken in a different context or was recorded incorrectly...

    It's the same with scientific miracles.  They will read the verse in the best possible light of Islam.  A vague metaphor of a leech like structure is simply pointless in the historical context.  Greeks, persians, babylonians... all head all kinds of descriptions of the process and you could read many of them in a good light as well.  Then when the Koran speaks of the sun setting into the ocean... they read that in the best Islamic light... it must be a metaphor or a story telling technique.

    The best you can do is introduce doubt in their mind, but while they choose to pick and choose, there is little you can do to bring light into their mind.
  • Qur'anic Miracles in the Guardian
     Reply #13 - December 21, 2012, 05:26 PM
    Quote from: billy on December 21, 2012, 03:34 PM
    She seems quite a nice person.


    as opposed to me being an asshole   dance

    guys take her up on her claims on twitter Smiley
  • Qur'anic Miracles in the Guardian
     Reply #14 - December 21, 2012, 05:30 PM
    To be honest we've given her the links, that is enough - she was polite to us, no need for anyone to spam her now
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Qur'anic Miracles in the Guardian
     Reply #15 - December 21, 2012, 10:11 PM
    I thought I would post an excerpt from my paper related to the topic. This is the summary of my refutation regarding the claim of "alaqah"; for the detailed version, please visit this link
    http://embryologyinthequran.blogspot.com/2012/08/4-clinging-form-alaqah.html

    Summary of Refutation

    "The attempt made by Hamza Tzortzis to claim that the term “alaqah” refers to a “hanging/ suspended” substance was shown to be a mundane observation apart from being absolutely vague. His attempt to define “alaqah” as “suckling blood” was demonstrated to be a weak inference based on arbitrary generalizations. Incidentally, these two definitions, based on a holistic understanding of the Islamic texts, would render the Qur'an as erroneous. The third definition of “leech/ worm like substance” was shown to be the result of a weak uncommon metaphorical usage. This definition also relies on arbitrary comparisons which exposes the lack of objectivity in the apologist's explanations. It was also demonstrated that the apologist's arbitrary ignoring of the structure of the yolk sac provides an inaccurate description of the embryo’s structure. Finally, Hamza’s attempt to present the definition of “blood clot” as “something resembling a blood clot” was shown to contain the same difficulty of using a weak uncommon metaphor. It was also shown that the embryo is not “something that resembles a blood clot.” Furthermore, the accurate meaning of “alaqah” was established as literal “blood” or “clotted blood”. This was based on the following factors; 1) Scholarly consensus, 2) Linguistic consistency, 3) Historical consistency and 4) Inaccuracy of other contending definitions. The other definitions lack these factors which further demonstrates that the definition of a literal “blood clot provides the most accurate and coherent understanding of Qur'an’s use of “alaqah”. Furthermore, it should be deemed unwise for an intelligent person, let alone an omniscient being, to use a word such as “alaqah” to describe a biological stage when the same word carries a literal biological meaning (blood clot) that conflicts with reality as well as the fact that the cognates of the same word were used among the Arabs to refer to incorrect notions about conception. Thus, one can conclude that the Qur'an is factually incorrect in its description of embryology. "
    http://www.youtube.com/captaindisguise
    http://captaindisguise.blogspot.com/
    http://dawahganda.blogspot.com/
    https://twitter.com/CaptainDG64

    "Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies" ~ Nietzsche
  • Qur'anic Miracles in the Guardian
     Reply #16 - December 31, 2012, 12:54 AM
    Quote from: TheDarkRebel on December 21, 2012, 04:46 AM
    ^

    Britain and other parts of Europe have been infested with muslim fundamentalists via huge waves of immigration.

    Thank f*** i'm living in north america.


    Yeah but America has christian fundamentalists. Certainly is fun >_> apparently God is pissed because Adam Lanza shot up that school, therefore we should reorganize America into a Christian theocracy Smiley we'll have a blast and go back to the glory days of burning witches and all that fun stuff haha
    "Knowledge is preferable to ignorance. Better by far to embrace the hard truth than a reassuring fable. If we crave some cosmic purpose, then let us find ourselves a worthy goal." - Carl Sagan
  • Qur'anic Miracles in the Guardian
     Reply #17 - December 31, 2012, 11:18 PM
    Quote from: billy on December 21, 2012, 05:30 PM
    To be honest we've given her the links, that is enough - she was polite to us, no need for anyone to spam her now


    I disagree, if you publicly put out misinformation you have to be corrected, until your big enough to admit your mistake
  • Qur'anic Miracles in the Guardian
     Reply #18 - December 31, 2012, 11:35 PM
    ^Not everyone responds to being bashed in the head, some people need space and time to digest etc. She's got some resources, give her time to read them and re-analyse.
    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Qur'anic Miracles in the Guardian
     Reply #19 - January 01, 2013, 12:07 AM
    Quote from: nreynolds1990 on December 31, 2012, 12:54 AM
    Yeah but America has christian fundamentalists. Certainly is fun >_> apparently God is pissed because Adam Lanza shot up that school, therefore we should reorganize America into a Christian theocracy Smiley we'll have a blast and go back to the glory days of burning witches and all that fun stuff haha


    Yeah but mainstream Christian fundies in america don't try to get people jailed for blasphemy or behead them for apostasy.

    Even the fundies at Fox News support freedom of speech and almost all other freedoms that atheists support. (Their political ignorance and religous bigotry is a separate matter)

    The difference between Christian fundies and muslim fundies is that christian fundies are bigots but muslim fundies are bigots that want to impose their bigotry on others through violence.
    -the violent christian bigots you speak of a very small minority of Christians while this is not the case with the global muslim community)

    Important distinction.
    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Qur'anic Miracles in the Guardian
     Reply #20 - January 02, 2013, 11:13 PM
    ^Completely agree. It peeves me when people try to equate (mainly U.S.-based) Christian crazies with Muslim crazies. The former won't try to behead you for disagreeing with them.
  • Qur'anic Miracles in the Guardian
     Reply #21 - January 03, 2013, 08:38 PM
    Quote from: Al-Alethia on January 02, 2013, 11:13 PM
    ^Completely agree. It peeves me when people try to equate (mainly U.S.-based) Christian crazies with Muslim crazies. The former won't try to behead you for disagreeing with them.


    Unless you're gay :S
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