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 Topic: How the planets really rotate around the sun.

 (Read 6036 times)
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  • How the planets really rotate around the sun.
     OP - March 05, 2013, 05:29 AM


    Since the sun is also rotating in an orbit in galaxy a more accurate depiction of how everything is moving.
    Quran was not even close. Fucking Science  cool2
    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • How the planets really rotate around the sun.
     Reply #1 - March 05, 2013, 07:28 AM
    This is beautiful.
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  • How the planets really rotate around the sun.
     Reply #2 - March 05, 2013, 08:02 AM
    Quote from: Crunchy Cds on March 05, 2013, 05:29 AM
    (Clicky for piccy!)

    Since the sun is also rotating in an orbit in galaxy a more accurate depiction of how everything is moving.
    Quran was not even close. Fucking Science  cool2


    Beautiful but dizzy making!!
  • How the planets really rotate around the sun.
     Reply #3 - March 05, 2013, 10:42 AM
    The miracle seekers claim that because the quran refers to the movement of the sun, therefore it is talking about the movement of the sun through the galaxy (rather than its mythological orbit around the earth, or not moving at al).

  • How the planets really rotate around the sun.
     Reply #4 - March 05, 2013, 08:21 PM
    Yknow I'd never even thought about the orbital planes of the planets being perpendicular to the plane of the Sun's orbit. I'd just assumed they were more or less in the same plane. Cool. Learn something every day. Smiley
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • How the planets really rotate around the sun.
     Reply #5 - March 05, 2013, 10:17 PM
    ^Me neither, until you made that comment. Thinking about it now it makes sense as to how the earth keeps a largely circular orbit around the sun.
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  • How the planets really rotate around the sun.
     Reply #6 - March 06, 2013, 01:22 AM
    Beautiful!  Thanks for sharing. Afro
    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • How the planets really rotate around the sun.
     Reply #7 - March 06, 2013, 06:59 AM
    So beautiful - can you tell me where you got it? I want to search for the creator/their webpage as it will have more information, perhaps a video instead of a .gif.
  • How the planets really rotate around the sun.
     Reply #8 - March 06, 2013, 07:09 AM
    Quote from: Crunchy Cds on March 05, 2013, 05:29 AM
    (Clicky for piccy!)

    Since the sun is also rotating in an orbit in galaxy a more accurate depiction of how everything is moving.
    Quran was not even close. Fucking Science  cool2

    Scientists dismiss it all as "just a theory" correct me if I'm wrong.
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  • How the planets really rotate around the sun.
     Reply #9 - March 06, 2013, 07:31 AM
    You're wrong. And if by some miracle you're ever right about something, you'll still be wrong. Hope this helps.
    Before it gets too late, you will find escape.
  • How the planets really rotate around the sun.
     Reply #10 - March 06, 2013, 07:59 AM
    What about this?. Scientist S.AM said,  :grin:h

    Without Earth there is no the existence of Universe,Space,Galaxy,Sun, Moon, Stars and the Planets etc. In other word Allah created all things because of EARTH. Without EARTH Supreme Being (Allah) have no place to stay or to be found.
    Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path). (al-Baqarah 2:18)
  • How the planets really rotate around the sun.
     Reply #11 - March 06, 2013, 08:15 AM
    Really fucking cool.
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  • How the planets really rotate around the sun.
     Reply #12 - March 06, 2013, 08:37 AM
    Quote from: S.A.M on March 06, 2013, 07:59 AM
    What about this?. Scientist S.AM said,  :grin:h

    Without Earth there is no the existence of Universe,Space,Galaxy,Sun, Moon, Stars and the Planets etc. In other word Allah created all things because of EARTH. Without EARTH Supreme Being (Allah) have no place to stay or to be found.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • How the planets really rotate around the sun.
     Reply #13 - March 06, 2013, 08:45 PM
    You're welcome, not sure where I found it. It's s trending gif on tumblr. But I didn't know this either becauae usuallly charts just show a stationary sun and planets rotate, but if you look at the galaxy it makes sense the sun itself is moving.
    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • How the planets really rotate around the sun.
     Reply #14 - March 06, 2013, 09:27 PM
    Quote from: zooby on March 05, 2013, 10:17 PM
    ^Me neither, until you made that comment. Thinking about it now it makes sense as to how the earth keeps a largely circular orbit around the sun.

    Not really. Most of the planets in the solar system orbit pretty close to the same plane, which is also mostly in line with the Sun's equator. This shouldn't be surprising, since both the Sun and the planets clumped up out of the same accretion disc (for want of a better term).

    I'd just assumed the galaxy as a whole was similar, and therefore the planets would be orbiting in much the same plane as the Sun.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • How the planets really rotate around the sun.
     Reply #15 - March 08, 2013, 04:56 PM
    Unfortunately this model is false. I've done some research on it and asked my astronomy professor about it. Notably, if this model were correct, the planets would be in different positions and our equations to send probes to different celestial bodies would not work. This model violates physics. The solar system is at a 60 degree tilt with respect to the galactic plane and moves as a unit. To create this spiraling effect you need another force acting on on the solar system. This is clearly not the case. Think of the orbital system of Uranus. It is at a 97 degree tilt in respect to its orbital plane. Its moons do not trail behind it. The Uranus system moves as a unit. The laws of physics are constants in the universe, the solar system moves as a unit just as the Uranian system moves as a unit. This is bad astronomy, its bad science, it is pseudoscience. Do not call it science. http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2013/03/04/vortex_motion_viral_video_showing_sun_s_motion_through_galaxy_is_wrong.html

    PS the guy that made this video is a DJ, named DJ Sadhu http://www.djsadhu.com/the-helical-model-vortex-solar-system-animation/ you will notice his article is poorly cited. He gets his information from a one Dr. Bhat who isn't even an astronomer. No mention of peer reviewed journals. Just a lot of emotional arguments about why he thinks the model is important and how the old model is boring and some faulty reasoning (because he doesn't understand physics). No scientific reasoning, no observation of the laws of physics and mathematics. This reeks of pseudoscience, and it is pseudoscience

    Might I also add if you examine the animation, Jupiter is behind Saturn. Yeah, Sadhu isn't exactly the paragon of astronomy
    "Knowledge is preferable to ignorance. Better by far to embrace the hard truth than a reassuring fable. If we crave some cosmic purpose, then let us find ourselves a worthy goal." - Carl Sagan
  • How the planets really rotate around the sun.
     Reply #16 - March 08, 2013, 06:03 PM
    Would be interesting to see an accurate animation in this style though
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  • How the planets really rotate around the sun.
     Reply #17 - March 08, 2013, 06:11 PM
    There is no accurate animation in this style because its not how the solar system behaves. It moves as a unit. Think about if you run with a spinning disk on your finger (assuming you have perfect balance and are running in a vacuum. Also assume your finger is frictionless, the reason I bring all of these things up is to illustrate the point) it the disk going to stop spinning or behave differently because you are running? no its not, and thats because an object in motion stays in motion unless acted on by another force. If you spin a disk on your finger while riding in a car it doesn't behave differently than if you are standing still, this is because an object in motion stays in motion, its Newton's first law. Things like dragging planets behind would result in the planets traveling at a different velocity around the galaxy than the sun, as soon as you introduce that you need to explain why. It increasingly becomes more complicated, use Occam's Razor, the simpler explanation is often the more correct one, this is because essentially the universe is lazy. In this situation, we know the heliocentric model is correct because it has been observed to be correct. Voyager one would have never flew by Jupiter if the Helical model was right because our equations to send Voyager there would have been wrong. The most readily available explanation I could think of to explain why planets would be orbiting the galaxy at a different rate than the sun would be friction or drag, these obviously don't apply because space is a vacuum (which is why I told you to disregard friction in the finger example). So you can't have an accurate model of what is depicted because what is depicted is inherently wrong. It violates fundamental principles of physics.
    "Knowledge is preferable to ignorance. Better by far to embrace the hard truth than a reassuring fable. If we crave some cosmic purpose, then let us find ourselves a worthy goal." - Carl Sagan
  • How the planets really rotate around the sun.
     Reply #18 - March 08, 2013, 06:15 PM
    Sorry
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • How the planets really rotate around the sun.
     Reply #19 - March 08, 2013, 06:15 PM
    Just kidding, thanks for the info, interesting stuff  Afro
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • How the planets really rotate around the sun.
     Reply #20 - March 08, 2013, 06:38 PM
    Well this is the beauty of science! If you point out I'm wrong, I'm not going to threaten to kill you and demand that this is correct. Thanks for clarifying  Afro
    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • How the planets really rotate around the sun.
     Reply #21 - March 08, 2013, 06:52 PM
    lol I never thought you were going to threaten to kill me  Cheesy But I've seen this idea before and I know where it came from. Inquiry into the subject turns it up false. You said in the original post you didn't know where it came from you found it somewhere. Be careful about that, just because you find something doesn't mean its true Smiley you need to check it out before you accept it thats all, and yes science welcomes disagreement and debate, thats what makes it run. As an aspiring physicist, I feel a responsibility to expose pseudoscience where it arises. This is one such case. I think its important for people to understand real science and pseudoscience.

    You did make a correct statement though, the Quran is still not even close to what the sun does. The sun still moves around the galactic core, but the entire solar system moves as a unit rather than a helix. The Quran never mentions thinks like the Oort Cloud, the heliosphere, termination shock, heliosheath, heliopause, or interstellar medium, all of these take modern astronomy to know about. Hell it doesn't even mention the existence of Uranus and Neptune, both planets were unknown at the time because you can only see them with telescopes and those didn't exist around the time of Muhammad. You would think an all knowing god could have tipped Muhammad off about the 2 extra unknown planets at the very least. So there are a lot of things you can bring up that isn't included in the Quran about the solar system, however the helical model is not one of them lol
    "Knowledge is preferable to ignorance. Better by far to embrace the hard truth than a reassuring fable. If we crave some cosmic purpose, then let us find ourselves a worthy goal." - Carl Sagan
  • How the planets really rotate around the sun.
     Reply #22 - March 08, 2013, 08:56 PM
    The gif may not be entirely accurate, but if most of the solar system has an orbital plane that is tilted 60 degrees to the plane of the Sun's orbit (which was what you said was the case) then the planets will appear the trace a spiralling path through space even though the solar system moves as a unit.

    Think about it. The Earth orbits the Sun. I think we agree on that bit. grin12 This means sometimes it will be "in front of" the Sun, and other times it will be "behind". If the Earth's plane of orbit is tilted 60 degrees to the Sun's plane of orbit, then at times the Earth will be "above" (using the term very loosely) and at other times "below" the Sun. Visualise that lot as a moving system and you should be able to see that from the point of view of an external observer, the Earth will appear to follow a helical path of sorts.

    The problems with the gif appear to be down to details. It'd be nice to have those corrected, and it would be interesting to see a really accurate depiction.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • How the planets really rotate around the sun.
     Reply #23 - March 08, 2013, 11:07 PM
    An accurate depiction of it would be extremely disappointing anyway, because planets would be barely visible if you compare them to the outermost orbit (Neptune).

    Even the diameter of the biggest object in the solar system, the sun itself, is 6500 times smaller than the diameter of the orbit of Neptune.
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  • How the planets really rotate around the sun.
     Reply #24 - March 08, 2013, 11:21 PM
    Very true, and it doesn't spiral much even in theory if you include to oort cloud or the heliosphere. Its just a ball moving through space at this point
    "Knowledge is preferable to ignorance. Better by far to embrace the hard truth than a reassuring fable. If we crave some cosmic purpose, then let us find ourselves a worthy goal." - Carl Sagan
  • How the planets really rotate around the sun.
     Reply #25 - March 09, 2013, 01:55 AM
    Oh sure, the scale is way out. The size of the sun and planets has been greatly exaggerated in relation to the diameters of the orbits. That's excusable as long as it's noted, and done deliberately for clarity. The idea is to get people to think about how shit really moves through space, and also to let them say "Hey look at all teh cool stuff whizzing all over the place".  grin12
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • How the planets really rotate around the sun.
     Reply #26 - March 10, 2013, 04:04 PM
    It's also mighty humbling. 

    It's impossible to to look at that and think that random stuff whizzing though space was created for us.
    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • How the planets really rotate around the sun.
     Reply #27 - March 10, 2013, 07:31 PM
    You mean that gif wasn't an accurate to-scale representation of the solar system? Say it aint so!
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • How the planets really rotate around the sun.
     Reply #28 - March 10, 2013, 09:28 PM
    IKR.  Roll Eyes
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