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 Topic: Stories of prophets, gog and magog seven sleepers etc etc

 (Read 2543 times)
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  • Stories of prophets, gog and magog seven sleepers etc etc
     OP - July 08, 2013, 06:43 PM

    Are Muslims supposed to take these stories literally (like the sleepers one) or view them as metaphorical? ie pcik up on the lessons.

    Don't read all those science books bro, you'll just get more confused.

    That's funny. The more science I read, the less confused I get.
  • Stories of prophets, gog and magog seven sleepers etc etc
     Reply #1 - July 08, 2013, 07:36 PM

    I’m personally of the opinion that the Muhammad (or whoever the composer of the Qur’an was) took those stories literally. Suratul-Kahf is, IMO, a very good tell-tale sign of the plagiarized nature of the Qur’an. If we are to believe the traditional narrative from the seerah in regards to its revelation, it is clear that Suratul Kahf is an epic fail on the part of the prophet.

    Quote
    They [the rabbis] said, "Ask him about three things which we will tell you to ask, and if he answers them then he is a Prophet who has been sent; if he does not, then he is saying things that are not true, in which case how you will deal with him will be up to you. Ask him about some young men in ancient times, what was their story For theirs is a strange and wondrous tale. Ask him about a man who travelled a great deal and reached the east and the west of the earth. What was his story And ask him about the Ruh (soul or spirit) – what is it? If he tells you about these things, then he is a Prophet, so follow him, but if he does not tell you, then he is a man who is making things up, so deal with him as you see fit."


    First of all, it took Muhammad an embarrassingly long time, 15 curious, agonizing days to be exact, to produce this Surah of only 110 verses. Secondly, every story that Muhammad produced in the surah was a plagiarism of embellished legends.

    Regarding the young men, Muhammad regurgitated
    the Syriac legend of the seven sleepers. Of course, even as he tried to remain as vague as possible, he still managed to miss several important details, including the amount of time they slept in the cave, their location, and their true number. What is more, as this is a Christian legend, I doubt that this was even the story the Jewish rabbis were referring to!

    Regarding the man who travelled a great deal, Muhammad bit off the completely fictional accounts of the Alexander Romance—a body of purely fictional lore that developed around the character of Alexander the Great. Alexander was referred to as Dhul Qarnain, the Two-horned One, as he was often depicted on coins as possessing the horns of Amon Ra.

     In addition to copying themes like Gog and Magog and the sun setting in a fetid sea, Muhammad also made the pagan Alexander a believer in Islamic monotheism.

    Just in case Dhul Qarnayn was not the subject of the Rabbi’s inquiry, Muhammad also mentioned the bizarre story of Musa and Khidhr. Again, the details of the story are so sketchy that they bare the hallmark of an author both unfamiliar with the subject and working in haste.

    Finally, perhaps the biggest and most obvious fail comes regarding the soul. Muhammad does not even mention the soul in this surah, but instead says in Suratul Israa “And they ask you concerning the soul. Say, The soul is of the affairs of my lord—and you have been given of knowledge but a little.” So basically, he completely avoided the question!

    When I read this surah without my magical Muslim glasses, I see one of the most obvious evidences of Muhammad’s ignorance and phoniness.

    Verses like these all sound like Muhammad panicking at the idea of being outted as a fraud:
    “6. Perhaps, you, would kill yourself (O Muhammad) in grief, over their footsteps (for their turning away from you), because they believe not in this narration.
    22. (Some) say they were three, the dog being the fourth among them; (others) say they were five, the dog being the sixth, guessing at the unseen; (yet others) say they were seven, the dog being the eighth. Say (O Muhammad): "My Lord knows best their number; none knows them but a few." So debate not (about their number, etc.) except with the clear proof (which We have revealed to you). And consult not any of them (people of the Scripture, Jews and Christians) about (the affair of) the people of the Cave.
    23. And never say of anything, "I shall do such and such thing tomorrow."
    24. Except (with the saying), "If Allah will!" And remember your Lord when you forget and say: "It may be that my Lord guides me unto a nearer way of truth than this."
    26. Say: "Allah knows best how long they stayed. With Him is (the knowledge of) the unseen of the heavens and the earth. How clearly He sees, and hears (everything)! They have no Wali (Helper, Disposer of affairs, Protector, etc.) other than Him, and He makes none to share in His Decision and His Rule."
    So, to recap, I personally imagine Muhammad hearing bits and pieces of Jewish and Christian legends, accepting them as history, and passing them on in the Qur’an as fact. Only now, as Muslims recognize the sheer lunacy and inaccuracy of these tales, do we see the push to take them metaphorically. I find the topic of the legends that have made their way into the Qur’an, primarily from Jewish lore, Syriac legend, and Heretical Christian gospels, to be extremely fascinating!
  • Stories of prophets, gog and magog seven sleepers etc etc
     Reply #2 - July 08, 2013, 09:40 PM

    With the heretica linfancy gospels I'm willing to bet many Muslims would say 'well those were the true gospels'. They've been changed, just as the Qur'an says.

    Don't read all those science books bro, you'll just get more confused.

    That's funny. The more science I read, the less confused I get.
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