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 Topic: constitution of Medina was it true or made up? do you agree with it.

 (Read 2286 times)
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  • constitution of Medina was it true or made up? do you agree with it.
     OP - June 24, 2014, 03:09 PM

    Constitution of Medina.,   was it true or made up? and how many of you guys  agree with it?



    That fellow who lives in Canada shaking Pakistan and its government  with his Islam.  yesterday he went to Pakistan and you see that what he is doing with his supporters in this post . In fact I would blame that fellow for supporting that General Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq and adding those Blasphemy Laws in to Pakistan constitution..   

     After Zia's death and Benazir Bhutto's being elected Prime Minister in 1988, Sharif emerged as opposition leader from the conservative Pakistan Muslim League.  When Bhutto was dismissed by President Ghulam Ishaq Khan in 1990 on corruption charges, Sharif was elected Prime Minister the same year. And you can see here this Mullah having good time with Nawaz  Sharif.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR8WPAE7Fzo

    So any way interest is not Pakistan Politics but books on Islam from this Mullah Dr. Tahir ul Qadri.  here is his website

    And as parrot of Islam as usual he wrote a book on the  The Constitution of Medina: 63 constitutional articles by Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri (Author)

    and here is the link of his book that you can read on that Madina Constitution of  alleged Prophet of Islam. Also you can watch a tube of discussion between

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvlIo39LZq4

    Historical work on Constitution of Madina by Dr Hameedullah and Dr Qadri.. We will add more  resources and discuss in detail on that "Madinan Constitution of  Muhammad"

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • constitution of Medina was it true or made up? do you agree with it.
     Reply #1 - June 24, 2014, 03:43 PM



    well that is the book from amazon.com for 3 dollars..  and here is the Pdf file of that book freely.. Let me go through bit of that..

    Quote
    The Constitution of Medina_[63 Constitutional Articles]  by Shaykh-ul-Islam  Dr Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri

    Article 1: This is a constitutional document given by Muhammad (Peace be  upon him), the Prophet (Messenger of God).

    Article 2:  Constitutional Subjects of the State  (This shall be a pact) between the Muslims of Quraysh, the  people of Yathrib (the Citizens of Medina) and those who shall  follow them and become attached to them (politically) and fight  along with them. (All these communities shall be the  constitutional subjects of the state.)

    Article 3:  Formation of the Constitutional Nationality  The aforementioned communities shall formulate a  Constitutional Unity as distinct from (other) people.

    Article 4:  Validation and Enforcement of the former tribal laws of
    blood money for the emigrant Quraysh  The emigrants from Quraysh shall be responsible for their ward  and they shall, according to their former approved practice,  jointly pay the blood money in mutual collaboration and every  group shall secure the release of their prisoners by paying the ransom. Moreover, the deal among the believers shall be in  accordance with the recognized principals of law and justice
    .

     
    Article 5:   Validation of the former laws of blood money for Banu Auf  And the emigrants from Banu Auf shall be responsible for their  ward and they shall, according to their former approved practice,  jointly pay the blood money in mutual collaboration and every  group shall secure the release of their prisoners by paying the  ransom. Moreover, the deal among the believers shall be in  accordance with the recognized principles of law and justice


    Well there are 63 of such statements called as articles  in that book.. and we will read all of them and use bit of  brain  to analyze those statements

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • constitution of Medina was it true or made up? do you agree with it.
     Reply #2 - June 24, 2014, 11:23 PM

    There's a good 2002 article by a Ph.D candidate named Anver Emon, article name "Reflections on the 'Constitution of Medina': An Essay on Methodology and Ideology in Islamic History."  Here's a cut-and-paste of its conclusion:

    "The historical problems associated with learning about the early Medinan polity during Muhammad's lifetime are considerable.  The literary tradition, written well after Muhammad's death, poses concerns regarding the authenticity of sources. Yet writers on the Constitution of Medina are convinced that the text of the Constitution is authentic--that a constitution did in fact exist, and its contents correlate with its representation in later literary sources. Furthermore, many assert that the text reported by Ibn Ishaq does not reflect a single original document, but a compilation of different documents. According to some, each sub-document can be differentiated from the others and can be dated, thereby providing guidance about developments concerning the Prophet's authority, the motivations for expelling and executing the Jewish tribes, and the nature of the relationship between the different tribes in Medina. Finally, some Muslim authors, such as al-Hibri, go so far as to argue that the constitutional nature of present Muslim society has a normative example in this prophetic model. Relying on apologetic arguments about notions of bay'a and governmental organization, she argues that the model of Islamic government coincides with the constitutional model of the United States, thereby suggesting that American forms of democracy may have fertile roots in the Middle East.

    The authenticity of the text is irrelevant to the present analysis. Given the arcane nature of the language and the ambiguities in the text, there is a strong likelihood that the text may be authentic, although determining its ‘kernel of truth‘ is far from clear. Furthermore, whether or not the text is in fact a compilation appears to be an unresolved matter. None of the methods adopted by historians prove the case of compilation one way or another. Discussions on each of these issues suffer from one fundamental problem--lack of clarity in the text itself. Because of the ambiguities in the text, interpreters exercise considerable discretion in presenting the arguments they believe best represent the past. It is not surprising to find writers on this topic indulging in flawed methodology or inserting their own biases into their research and conclusions. Serjeant and Gil, as suggested above, may have their own reasons for approaching the text in the way they do. Serjeant, as a colonial officer in Arabia, needs to understand the culture as backward to justify colonial efforts in the region. Gil, an Israeli scholar, reads the dynamics of Middle Eastern politics and Arab hostility to the State of Israel into the Constitution, and thereby interprets the Constitution to reflect an anti-Jewish policy beginning with the inception of the Muslim polity in Medina. Al-Hibri effectively engages in an apologetic argument
    to suggest that Muslims share a constitutional legacy that is very much akin to American democratic ideals. Whether this is in fact the case is not proven in her article.

    The Constitution of Medina is likely not a constitution at all. Relying on historical sources from the medieval period, it appears that few medieval Muslim authors paid serious attention to this agreement. Rather, they referred to it in passing as little more than a treaty negotiated by the Prophet in accordance with his treaty-making powers. The fact that recent Muslim authors often address a presumed constitutional theory implicit in the document may have more to do with twentieth century politics in the Muslim world than with anything inherent in the text. The independence of Muslim nations, their implementation of constitutions and constitutional regimes, and the aims of European and U.S. foreign policy make the debate on ‘Islamic
    constitutionalism‘ particularly relevant for Muslims interested in the economic, social, and political development of the Muslim world. Whether or not apologetic or politicized reference is made to concepts like bay'a or documents like the Constitution of Medina, the Islamic tradition provides a complex picture that cannot be readily reduced to politically convenient essentialisms."
  • constitution of Medina was it true or made up? do you agree with it.
     Reply #3 - June 25, 2014, 01:22 AM

    There's a good 2002 article by a Ph.D candidate named Anver Emon, article name "Reflections on the 'Constitution of Medina': An Essay on Methodology and Ideology in Islamic History."  Here's a cut-and-paste of its conclusion:

    "The historical problems associated with learning about the early Medinan polity during Muhammad's lifetime are considerable.  The literary tradition, written well after Muhammad's death, poses concerns regarding the authenticity of sources. ......................

    The Constitution of Medina is likely not a constitution at all...............

    hello Zaotar., That is a 2nd post of yours  and first being on Muhammad.. Thank you for those posts., But it appears you are following what i write around the web on this subject.  Is it the first time you are reading CEMB or were you active before?

    Anyway I am glad to read  your post   and I will read through  Anver Emon,  thesis., Did he write any book on this subject??

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • constitution of Medina was it true or made up? do you agree with it.
     Reply #4 - June 25, 2014, 08:27 PM

    These are my first posts; I am very much interested in scholarship on Islam's emergence, but not overly interested in modern Islam, so that's why I'm not really posting on other subjects.  I came across this forum by accident, and a number of the discussions seem interesting.

    As far as I know Emon hasn't written any more on this subject.  The only person who seems to have recently done detailed work is Michael Lecker.  I have not read his book though.

    In the two versions that have come down to us, the constitution of Medina strikes me as having likely gone through a process of compilation from sub-documents along with an "Islamization" of the compiled versions that have come down to us.  For example, I suspect the references to Muhammad are later Islamic interpolations, as well as the introductory and conclusory paragraphs to the text, which I think are probably anachronistic.

    There are elements of the text that are still probably quite archaic, however, so even though you can't take the whole thing as gospel, it gives some insight into early Arabic social relations.  How much I think is hard to say.  Certainly the scholar Fred Donner tries to put it at the center of his book "Muhammad and the Believers."

    Btw, as I mentioned in my other thread, I am not at all sure that the vagueness of the document is an argument for its authenticity, as Emon contends in his article.  It seems that Islamic scribes often made texts more vague when compiling them, perhaps to make them easier to harmonize when they contained conflicting specific names of people and places.  The Constitution of Medina is a great case in point -- even though it is extraordinarily vague overall, part of what argues for its authenticity is that when it does give specific names, the 'wrong' Jewish tribes seem to be named in it, measuring 'wrong' by later Islamic tradition on the Prophet's time in Medina.  The scribal fix to these problems of harmonizing older texts with conflicting or unknown proper names, as in the Qur'an itself, was to systematically turn those proper names into pronouns or adjectives during the long compilation process, thereby solving a host of intractable problems; such is my hypothesis as to why there is such a remarkable overabundance of pronouns and vagueness in the earliest Muslim sources.  Information was intentionally obliterated.  Later Muslims then had to try to read specificity back into the documents via an exegetical tradition including the hadith/sirah.

    It's like taking a current sentence:  "Michael flew to Seattle and spoke with Bill Gates about getting a job at Microsoft."  100 years later, if there were no written records, this sentence may be incomprehensible or conflict with some broad overarching narrative you want to argue.  You can just convert the sentence to "He flew to the city and spoke with the leader about getting a job at the great company."  That way you are keeping the semantic content in your repeated sentence (it's not outright forgery), but it can be harmonized more broadly with other narratives.

    It strikes me that the Medina document is extremely hard to analyze overall because of these problems -- which go well beyond the limited question of 'authenticity' -- and yet people are often tempted to put a great deal of weight onto it.
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