What is the difference between Culture and Religion?

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- King Koopa
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What is the difference between Culture and Religion?
OP - May 11, 2010, 06:20 PM

Read this article and more importantly the comments, the girl is saying it's culture and not Islam that is at fault. Islam is a peaceful religion and her culture is one that promotes violence.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1210799/My-mother-hired-hitman-kill-The-shocking-story-Muslim-woman-parents-disapproved-Western-lifestyle.html

I think criticizing culture is a cop out, or at least very simplistic most of the times. It would mean there is no difference between these cultures:

Muslim Arabs

Jewish Arabs

Christian Arabs

Secular Arabs

(Other religions) Arabs

Of course you can find similarities but what does that exactly mean? First of all there are different countries, different social levels, and educational systems, can people really say Arab culture is then x and not y?

Can one say all South Asians are the same? Even the different religious groups? I'm sure there are similarities but again what creates theses similarities and differences?

My question is where are the rules that are written down for culture? Do the rules change? What changes them?

We have now a community of ex-muslims, can we talk about a culture yet? Are there certain things we do and say? Can we change our behaviors and ideas and therefore change our culture? I would say yes. But these are unwritten rules.

When people criticize culture instead of Islam it makes me wonder. When you see the same negatives and positives across very different communities can we then still talk about a culture? If so, what culture? I would call it an Islamic culture. A culture based, or influenced by Islamic doctrines. To just say "that's culture and not Islam" is something we hear from the liberal left and muslims.

Is there a difference between culture and religion? How can we separate the two? How can we point at a certain behavior or idea and go this is culture and this is religion.
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Re: What is the difference between Culture and Religion?
Reply #1 - May 11, 2010, 06:55 PM

It's an easy out. Nobody can define "culture" on a coherent, consistent basis, so it becomes the catch-all for everything. Culture is an amalgamation of everything that exists in society, and that includes religion. Religionists just fall back on culture as though they can ever truly be separated when religion and culture feed each other. Religion though has scriptures, judicial and legal positions, and textually coded norms. These do change a little bit this way or that way, and over time can be transformed to a great degree, but any set of nutters/cultists/extremists can always refer back to the original religious texts and traditions to push their religious communities into a narrower perspective that is still truer to the original texts and traditions of the religion. Because culture has no written, unquestionable rules, it is more malleable and can change more readily than religion.

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Re: What is the difference between Culture and Religion?
Reply #2 - May 11, 2010, 06:57 PM

Reminds me when I had a sudden interest in Sociology and the ideas of Ibn Khaldun, Comte, Durkheim, Weber, Spencer, Hegel et al and how they described society, culture, and religion.

Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

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Re: What is the difference between Culture and Religion?
Reply #3 - May 11, 2010, 06:59 PM

Exactly, and therefore I think culture can change into a positive thing and a lot faster. There is no establishment, no governing body and no damn priests wagging fingers threating adherents with hellfire and chafing underwear.
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Re: What is the difference between Culture and Religion?
Reply #4 - May 11, 2010, 06:59 PM

Quote from: atheist.pk on May 11, 2010, 06:57 PM
Reminds me when I had a sudden interest in Sociology and the ideas of Ibn Khaldun, Comte, Durkheim, Weber, Spencer, Hegel et al and how they described society, culture, and religion.

You are my hero. Man there is so much I have to read :(
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Re: What is the difference between Culture and Religion?
Reply #5 - May 11, 2010, 07:01 PM

Just get a basic book on Sociology that deals with the basic concepts of the famous sociologists over the centuries. You'll love it. Its an amazing topic to read about.

I loved Ibn Khaldun's concept of Al-Asabiyya, Spencer on Social Darwinism and the concept of society's evolution from a 'military society' to 'industrial society', Durkheim's take on religion as well as his brilliant 'Theory of Suicide', and of course the mind-fuck of Hegel's Dialectic philosophy.

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Re: What is the difference between Culture and Religion?
Reply #6 - May 11, 2010, 07:15 PM

I'd also recommend reading social-cultural anthropology, including Talal Asad: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talal_Asad - As well as Max Weber, Emile Durkheim (classical anthropologists) as well as contemporary anthropologists.

Here's 1 interview with Talal Asad (it's been posted elsewhere on the forum before):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfAGnxKfwOg

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Re: What is the difference between Culture and Religion?
Reply #7 - May 11, 2010, 08:11 PM

Here's an interesting anthropological analysis on the relationship between globalization and religion, and its effects on cultures. This was 1 of the readings in my anthropology of religion course this past semester. It refers to a lot of other academic research and papers, most of which I'd also recommend as readings (they can be found in various anthologies, some are on scribd.com and docstoc.com, others are accessible through universities' e-libraries and portals like jstor).

Csordas2007- Modalities of transnational transcendence.pdf (105.04 KB - downloaded 327 times.)

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Re: What is the difference between Culture and Religion?
Reply #8 - May 11, 2010, 08:40 PM

Thanks Allat! I guess after religion I should start reading up on sociology and anthropology.
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Re: What is the difference between Culture and Religion?
Reply #9 - May 11, 2010, 11:49 PM

Here's a similar thread that was started a few weeks ago, mainly in response to Kaiwai's leaving of this forum.
http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=10105.0

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Re: What is the difference between Culture and Religion?
Reply #10 - May 12, 2010, 07:30 AM

Wasn't he banned?
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Re: What is the difference between Culture and Religion?
Reply #11 - May 12, 2010, 08:49 PM

Was he? I didn't know that. I just heard him say he left the forum on his video. I wasn't here when he was here. Anyway, leaving doesn't mean he wasn't banned.

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Re: What is the difference between Culture and Religion?
Reply #12 - May 12, 2010, 11:25 PM

Exactly
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Re: What is the difference between Culture and Religion?
Reply #13 - May 12, 2010, 11:32 PM

I thought he was only on a temporary ban?
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Re: What is the difference between Culture and Religion?
Reply #14 - May 12, 2010, 11:49 PM

Quote from: allat on May 11, 2010, 06:55 PM
It's an easy out. Nobody can define "culture" on a coherent, consistent basis, so it becomes the catch-all for everything. Culture is an amalgamation of everything that exists in society, and that includes religion. Religionists just fall back on culture as though they can ever truly be separated when religion and culture feed each other. Religion though has scriptures, judicial and legal positions, and textually coded norms. These do change a little bit this way or that way, and over time can be transformed to a great degree, but any set of nutters/cultists/extremists can always refer back to the original religious texts and traditions to push their religious communities into a narrower perspective that is still truer to the original texts and traditions of the religion. Because culture has no written, unquestionable rules, it is more malleable and can change more readily than religion.

+1

Well my uni studies were a bit different but from the one elective I could take was Human Geography. And sadly what i learned is that the primary identifier of a culture is the religion. Many misogynist things in Islamic cultures do come from rather orthodox interpretations of the religion it self. Once practiced over time they can be labeled as "cultural" but those who defend it again use religion.

"Polish a turd its still a turd" Jeff Dunham.

Nothing can be more contrary to religion and the clergy than reason and common sense. - Voltaire
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Re: What is the difference between Culture and Religion?
Reply #15 - May 13, 2010, 07:20 AM

The book "The God Virus" has an excellent section on culture/religion.

Basically it says that the religion attempts to replace the culture, where it cannot replace it it will assimilate it into its beliefs (such as Christmas.) At which point people tend to be practising traits of what people believe is religion even when they are not religions. Monogomy for example, that is the norm in many places in the world due to the influence of religion (e.g. Christianity), but in countries where these religions haven't reached it is not unusual to find Polygamy, Polyandry, Polyamory.

When the coupling is so tight it is easy for people from other cultures to see something they do not recognise and say "This is not Islam, it's culture". That's the response I get from UK Muslims about multiple wives "You cannot treat them equally, there will always be a favourite, so the Quran says you can only have one wife!", but this is their attempt to assimilate their religion into the culture because monogamy is such a strongly held moral in the UK.

I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
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What is the difference between Culture and Religion?
Reply #16 - October 11, 2014, 02:27 PM

Isnt religion a product of culture?
When did religion and culture became two separate entities?

I always find the two very confusing.
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