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 Topic: Mother Teresa's Canonization: Controversy Mars Nun's Work

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  • Mother Teresa's Canonization: Controversy Mars Nun's Work
     OP - September 04, 2016, 10:10 PM
    Quote
    ROME — For much of her life, she was known as the "living saint."

    On Sunday, the 19th anniversary of her death, Mother Teresa's sanctity was sealed with a canonization Mass led by Pope Francis at the Vatican's St. Peter's Square.

    To her legion of steadfast admirers, the Nobel Peace Prize winner's ascendance to "sanctified" status may look as inevitable as it is justified.

    But for a nun whose name has long been a byword for pious compassion, her canonization has been met with controversy.

    Much of the criticism of Mother Teresa has focused on how her practice of Catholic devotion collided with the real needs of the impoverished people she set out to help. In the eyes of some, particularly in India, she put fame and piety before her mission of aid.
    ...

    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/mother-teresa-s-canonization-controversy-clouds-nun-s-work-n641181
    "Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
    - Robert Louis Stevenson
  • Mother Teresa's Canonization: Controversy Mars Nun's Work
     Reply #1 - September 04, 2016, 10:56 PM
    An old thread: Does Mother Teresa deserve her good reputation?
    Which side are you on?
  • Mother Teresa's Canonization: Controversy Mars Nun's Work
     Reply #2 - September 04, 2016, 11:25 PM
    Has anyone read the journal article from the University of Montreal that was mentioned by bogart in that thread? I believe it's called Les côtés ténébreux de Mère Teresa.
    "Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
    - Robert Louis Stevenson
  • Mother Teresa's Canonization: Controversy Mars Nun's Work
     Reply #3 - September 05, 2016, 04:18 PM
    I found the link to the full article. Now to find the English version...
    "Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
    - Robert Louis Stevenson
  • Mother Teresa's Canonization: Controversy Mars Nun's Work
     Reply #4 - September 05, 2016, 05:49 PM
    And just to give the other side of the story...

    https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2013/04/mother-teresa-and-her-critics
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Mother Teresa's Canonization: Controversy Mars Nun's Work
     Reply #5 - September 05, 2016, 07:32 PM
    That article is a joke.
  • Mother Teresa's Canonization: Controversy Mars Nun's Work
     Reply #6 - September 05, 2016, 10:29 PM
    Very likely.  I just thought I'd post another perspective on the issue.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Mother Teresa's Canonization: Controversy Mars Nun's Work
     Reply #7 - September 06, 2016, 07:26 PM
    No I mean read the article. It makes a big deal out of a typo, Pius IX instead of XI. It provides no sources. It just says the sources are "out there" /waves hand. It is a knee-jerk reaction put to type rather than any serious rebuttal
  • Mother Teresa's Canonization: Controversy Mars Nun's Work
     Reply #8 - September 06, 2016, 08:16 PM
    Oh right.  I'll see if  can find something more substantial then, that was the first pro Mother Teresa I found.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Mother Teresa's Canonization: Controversy Mars Nun's Work
     Reply #9 - September 15, 2016, 04:24 PM
    Penn and Teller (and Hitchens) on Mother T:
    https://youtu.be/V4nCaxHN-cY

    "She was corrupt, nasty, cynical and cruel"

    Not to mention: https://youtu.be/65JxnUW7Wk4
  • Mother Teresa's Canonization: Controversy Mars Nun's Work
     Reply #10 - September 15, 2016, 04:30 PM
    Quote from: Ursus on September 15, 2016, 04:24 PM
    Penn and Teller (and Hitchens) on Mother T:
    https://youtu.be/V4nCaxHN-cY

    "She was corrupt, nasty, cynical and cruel"

    Not to mention: https://youtu.be/65JxnUW7Wk4


    NONSENSE...absolute nonsense  ..  Ursus

    what corruption and how many millions/billions of dollars/pounds/IN rupees of corruption did she do ?
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Mother Teresa's Canonization: Controversy Mars Nun's Work
     Reply #11 - September 16, 2016, 07:47 AM
    It's not the amount but the fact that she associated with and accepted money from questionable sources. Money which was a part of and more often than not was from an exploited population which caused harm in gaining it and using it. She compromises with a set of values to promote religious values. Everyday people face criminal charges (stolen goods) to financial consequences for accepting money from such sources. Politicians become unelectable. Religious figures become saints.... 
  • Mother Teresa's Canonization: Controversy Mars Nun's Work
     Reply #12 - September 17, 2016, 09:06 AM
    I looked up a few articles about her "charitable" work.  The main complaint was that the charity collected donations but failed to often dispense the assets to benefit the poor.  I find it very disturbing when she is said to have refused painkillers to dying people and tell them that their suffering was Jesus kissing them.   Disgusting. 

    Charities that just exist to perpetuate themselves.  I prefer charities that spend their donations on the cause not hoard funds in a bank and avoid disclosure. 
    The unreligion, only one calorie
  • Mother Teresa's Canonization: Controversy Mars Nun's Work
     Reply #13 - September 17, 2016, 12:36 PM
    Quote from: Bee on September 17, 2016, 09:06 AM
    ............ collected donations but failed to often dispense the assets to benefit the poor.  I find it very disturbing when she is said to have refused painkillers to dying people and tell them that their suffering was Jesus kissing them.   Disgusting.  

    Charities that just exist to perpetuate themselves.  I prefer charities that spend their donations on the cause not hoard funds in a bank and avoid disclosure.  

    Quote from: bogart on September 16, 2016, 07:47 AM
    It's not the amount but the fact that she associated with and accepted money from questionable sources. .........

    Quote
    . She compromises with a set of values to promote religious values.

     Everyday people face criminal charges (stolen goods) to financial consequences for accepting money from such sources. Politicians become unelectable. Religious figures become saints....  [/b][/s]


    you guys can say anything you like about her ..her faith and her  catholic  bosses in her and you must have freedom to criticize her ..however GOOD or however bad the person may be..but I delete I disagree with many who criticize  her on how she collected funds and how she spent the money ., and I still question the words in Ursus post  
    Quote from: Ursus on September 15, 2016, 04:24 PM

    "She was corrupt, nasty, cynical and cruel"
     

    ..

    what all I could say as criticism on her is .,  To start with,  She was naive,she became faith head.,  SHE  WAS A FAITH HEAD and I could also say she was stupid.,   that is all what I say about her.,   but you guys must realize by definition  ALL FAITH HEADS ARE STUPID..

    It is true many exploited   her and her popularity  but to say she is corrupt., ?? I disagree .. THEN SHOW ME ONE PERSON ON EARTH WHO IS/WAS NOT CORRUPT ...   and that goes  toall faith heads, all prophets, messengers, gods and godmen.,    I posted  about her good/bad in different forums and as well as here

    Quote
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=15661.0

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=20735.0

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=16535.0

    http://www.forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=6196&p=105485#p105229

    http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?p=124469#p124469

    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/mother-teresa-s-canonization-controversy-clouds-nun-s-work-n641181




    She dedicated her life from that age to this age



    for her faith in her Catholic Christianity and on that Godly figure head of Christianity ..

    DID SHE KILL ANY ONE IN THE NAME OF FAITH?

    Ans is NOooooooooooooo

    Did she do stupid thingsin the name of her faith?

    Answer is Yes....

    "was she s corrupt, nasty, cynical and cruel"??

    ANSWER IS Nooooooooooo

    Was she stupid because of her faith and had some  controversial beliefs ?

    answer is Yes.....
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Mother Teresa's Canonization: Controversy Mars Nun's Work
     Reply #14 - September 17, 2016, 03:39 PM
    Is she really any different from me?  No.  Or any of us? 

    "do unto others as you would like done unto you".  Maybe she would refuse pain killers but I would want them.  Maybe people need to understand what they want for themselves is not always what another wouod like "done unto them".  That suffering is "your cross to bear" is just repeated at nauseum by catholics.  "Suffering helps you understand the suffering of Christ".  NO. I would want medication. 

    Some people just do not like the idea of making a dead person into a saint.  I do not see the point of it. 

    Part of the canonization process is the devil advocate's research.  They do a history in the person's life and also are supposed to examine the miracles they did or what was attributed to thir intercession after their death. 

    Only one question I have.  What is "faith head" according to your definition? 
    The unreligion, only one calorie
  • Mother Teresa's Canonization: Controversy Mars Nun's Work
     Reply #15 - September 17, 2016, 04:05 PM
    Quote from: Bee on September 17, 2016, 03:39 PM
    Is she really any different from me?  No.  Or any of us?  

    YES SHE WAS.....  i actually need to  scribble  something about this post of your's    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30445.msg861248#msg861248  but you are keeping me busy here dear Bee
    Quote
    "do unto others as you would like done unto you".  Maybe she would refuse pain killers but I would want them

    .
    That  golden rule is NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN CHRIST and that golden rule is not good enough to stand against  Islamic political  ideology that is coupled to faith/religion
    Quote
     Maybe people need to understand what they want for themselves is not always what another wouod like "done unto them".  That suffering is "your cross to bear" is just repeated at nauseum by catholics.  "Suffering helps you understand the suffering of Christ".  NO. I would want medication.  

    Ok..    her times were different ., Her belief at that time was different.,  AND AND YOU MUST REALIZE  THIS

    .... "she didn't stop any one who wanted to help those patients that were looked after in her Calcutta  catholic  organization neither she stopped patients that were going out of her little hospital/medicine dispensary" ......

    Quote
    Some people just do not like the idea of making a dead person into a saint.  I do not see the point of it.  

    Part of the canonization process is the devil advocate's research.  They do a history in the person's life and also are supposed to examine the miracles they did or what was attributed to thir intercession after their death.  

    let me delete all that stuff., all that is NOT her problem., it is the activity of those who were depended/Still depend  on her work and her faith.. that too after her death..

    If some one wrote all bullshit on 1st preacher of Islam after his death and   was canonized as "Muhammad".. or Christ...or Mother Theresa.....    it is not their Problem dear Bee..

    Quote
    Only one question I have.  What is "faith head" according to your definition?  


    that is a simplest question to answer ..

    "Any person who holds irrational unquestionable belief in any fields such as religious, political, social,  economical,  scientific concepts/hypothesized assumptions and  and he/she will never change    no matter what evidence is provided to the contrary to his/her faith/concept/hypothesis /belief .........  I call such folks as FAITH HEADS ., .. well I can add more to that but  that is good enough for now.,

    That doesn't mean they(the faith heads) are bad people or criminal in nature .,   in fact many of them are very good folks

    Are you a faith head dear Bee??
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Mother Teresa's Canonization: Controversy Mars Nun's Work
     Reply #16 - September 17, 2016, 04:41 PM
    Quote
    That doesn't mean they(the faith heads) are bad people or criminal in nature .,   in fact many of them are very good folks


    Keep up the good fight Yeeze. Afro   I've been away and busy, but I have something to say about this too. in a few days.  I've not been a big fan of her, but this piling on and caricaturing her as an evil old woman incarnate  is bordering on the ridiculous !   Smiley
  • Mother Teresa's Canonization: Controversy Mars Nun's Work
     Reply #17 - September 17, 2016, 07:31 PM
    Quote from: puzzlelover on September 17, 2016, 04:41 PM
    Keep up the good fight Yeeze. Afro 

       Cheesy   Cheesy 


     
    Quote
    ........ I've not been a big fan of her, but this piling on and caricaturing her as an evil old woman incarnate  is bordering on the ridiculous !   Smiley

    well i said this some 5 years ago on  July 07, 2011, 12:45 PM  in this forum to  IsLame

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=16535.msg459820#msg459820
    Quote from: yeezevee on July 07, 2011, 12:45 PM
    I am sorry IsLame., I disagree with Christopher Hitchens here., Off course he must have freedom to criticize any one he likes.,  As every human being has problems and she had her own problems.  But she did help people., It appears that the  problems with her is NOT she,  but some Christian churches and Vatican using her name to propagate their version of Christianity..

    and i am still keeping that word dear puzzlelover ...  some people get a shock when i say  " I disagree with Christopher Hitchens "  because i was and am a big fan of his works words and debates...
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Mother Teresa's Canonization: Controversy Mars Nun's Work
     Reply #18 - September 17, 2016, 08:00 PM
    I will never tire of reading the real reason why Mother Teresa was canonised.
    Before it gets too late, you will find escape.
  • Mother Teresa's Canonization: Controversy Mars Nun's Work
     Reply #19 - September 18, 2016, 12:17 PM
    I wonder what Christopher Hitchens would have said about Amma and her charity?  Well he's dead right? 
    http://amma.org/

    Actually I am all too sick about atheists in particular criticizing religious based charities when I really can't think of the last time I went to a building funded by a group of solely atheists that has a food bank and helps the poor.  Is there one in your town?  But all the while some of these atheists are the most fervent church haters for purely emotional reasons. 




     
    The unreligion, only one calorie
  • Mother Teresa's Canonization: Controversy Mars Nun's Work
     Reply #20 - September 18, 2016, 12:29 PM
    Quote from: Bee on September 18, 2016, 12:17 PM
    I wonder what Christopher Hitchens would have said about Amma and her charity?  Well he's dead right?  
    http://amma.org/  

    Hu! what..........what the hell  Oh India  great India

    Quote
    Actually I am all too sick about atheists in particular criticizing religious based charities when I really can't think of the last time I went to a building funded by a group of solely atheists that has a food bank and helps the poor.  Is there one in your town?  But all the while some of these atheists are the most fervent church haters for purely emotional reasons.

    Rogues.. rascals.........criminals of first order ..worst form of life on this earth  .. KILL THEM ALL  ..they do nothing in life and nothing to life    finmad finmad  

    So dear Bee.. you are going out of  Mother Teresa to some other Mother ., you are done with Mother Teresa??
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Mother Teresa's Canonization: Controversy Mars Nun's Work
     Reply #21 - September 18, 2016, 02:33 PM
    Stop being a drama queen.  Please go out and do some good charity regardless of your religious faith or lack of. 
    The unreligion, only one calorie
  • Mother Teresa's Canonization: Controversy Mars Nun's Work
     Reply #22 - September 18, 2016, 02:59 PM
    Quote from: Bee on September 18, 2016, 02:33 PM
    Stop being a drama queen.  Please go out and do some good charity regardless of  your religious faith or lack of.  

    yes  yes.. queen  king... queer    ...  but Bee   that is a wrong word .,  ..  no  religion...no faith....  no faith  inside the skull..  So  i sometimes  neglect some points of your posts

    Quote from: Bee on September 18, 2016, 12:17 PM
    I wonder what Christopher Hitchens would have said about Amma and her charity?  Well he's dead right?  
     

    yap.. amma.org   ....  he is dead..lots of people died .   I TOO WILL DIE   So what is the problem dear??  So  go do something.,,   i do nothing.,  i get paid doing nothing dear Bee.. may be I should start hugging.,    Helllooo forum members  and readers Any one want to pay money for that ?? would you like pay for hugging  dear Bee??
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Mother Teresa's Canonization: Controversy Mars Nun's Work
     Reply #23 - September 18, 2016, 08:07 PM
    Did people pay to hear Christopher Hitchens speak?  I would not want hugs from him.  I can watch his speeches on youtube.  He did not have not a charitable cause.

    I prefer to donate to charities that have an open record of their accounts.  They publish yearly what is the total donations, what are their costs (rent, office supplies, letter campaigns, ads, salaries, other fees) and the total amount they spend on their charitable programmes.  What percentage is their giving to the cause?  Some charities are spending high percentage of their income on costs and low percentage in charitable programmes.  They also should disclose how much funds they have invested or in bank accounts. 

    Please do not say to kill people. You need a time-out.  Feel better and not get so upset.



    The unreligion, only one calorie
  • Mother Teresa's Canonization: Controversy Mars Nun's Work
     Reply #24 - September 19, 2016, 10:25 AM
    Quote from: Bee on September 18, 2016, 08:07 PM
    Did people pay to hear Christopher Hitchens speak?  I would not want hugs from him.  I can watch his speeches on youtube.  He did not have not a charitable cause.

    I prefer to donate to charities that have an open record of their accounts.  They publish yearly what is the total donations, 
    what are their costs (rent, office supplies, letter campaigns, ads, salaries, other fees) and the total amount they spend on their charitable programmes.  What percentage is their giving to the cause?  Some charities are spending high percentage of their income on costs and low percentage in charitable programmes.  They also should disclose how much funds they have invested or in bank accounts.  

    Please do not say to kill people. You need a time-out.  Feel better and not get so upset.

      do not worry about hugging  Christopher Hitchens  and..  and great  ..  great   advice to a killer    Bee..   well   lot more to learn
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
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