Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts


Qur'anic studies today
by zeca
June 08, 2025, 01:38 PM

What music are you listen...
by zeca
June 07, 2025, 08:56 PM

New Britain
June 06, 2025, 10:16 AM

Do humans have needed kno...
June 04, 2025, 11:58 PM

Muslim grooming gangs sti...
June 02, 2025, 09:31 PM

ماذا يحدث هذه الايام؟؟؟.
by akay
June 02, 2025, 10:25 AM

What happens in these day...
June 02, 2025, 09:27 AM

What's happened to the fo...
June 01, 2025, 10:43 AM

Lights on the way
by akay
May 26, 2025, 10:25 AM

Gaza assault
May 24, 2025, 11:55 AM

الحبيب من يشبه اكثر؟؟؟
by akay
May 19, 2025, 12:00 PM

Marcion and the introduct...
by zeca
May 17, 2025, 09:44 PM

Theme Changer

 Topic: Is there a God?

 (Read 6119 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Is there a God?
     OP - November 28, 2008, 07:04 PM

    I know the atheists will tear this apart but I just can't believe this world evolved without some sort of plan and design that can only have come from a unimaginably wise and powerful force.

    Anyway, here's a video:

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2Bxqb4jUZc
  • Re: Is there a God?
     Reply #1 - November 28, 2008, 07:33 PM

    Is there a god?

    Love the question, not sure about the answer.
  • Re: Is there a God?
     Reply #2 - November 28, 2008, 07:39 PM

    I know the atheists will tear this apart but I just can't believe this world evolved without some sort of plan and design that can only have come from a unimaginably wise and powerful force.

    Anyway, here's a video:
    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2Bxqb4jUZc

  • Re: Is there a God?
     Reply #3 - November 28, 2008, 07:54 PM

    Hi Hassan,
    Your video will not load on this extreme slow wireless.

    So, you say 'I just can't believe this world evolved without some sort of plan and design that can only have come from a unimaginably wise and powerful force.' So, there has to be more powerful force than God for God to come in existence. Let say that as God square. So, for God square to come  into existence, you need God cube.

    But, I am no atheist Hassan. For me God exists because I have a faith not that he has to exist for creation to come into existence, and I feel in between all good and bad, somewhere he has definitely touched me. Yeah, I don't know much about him as I think he is beyond our comprehension. He is not even he Smiley
  • Re: Is there a God?
     Reply #4 - November 28, 2008, 08:01 PM

    I know the atheists will tear this apart but I just can't believe this world evolved without some sort of plan and design that can only have come from a unimaginably wise and powerful force.



    There is no order or plan in the universe. So how do you define your god Hassan, and getting sick of this deist crap. Define attributes of your god for me Hassan.
  • Re: Is there a God?
     Reply #5 - November 28, 2008, 08:34 PM

    I know the atheists will tear this apart but I just can't believe this world evolved without some sort of plan and design that can only have come from a unimaginably wise and powerful force.


    Yes a video that any argument from intelligent design would be honoured to show.

    However what it does not show is all the suffering on this planet.

    It does not indicate that of all the billions of universes, life as far as we know, only exists here. Why would a god create all those other planets? What is the point od billions of rocks?

    Of all the species that ever lived, 98% are now extinct. What kind of trial and error god would need to create lifeforms that cannot cope with changing environments.

    This planet itself balances on a knife's edge. The majority of which is uninhabitable by man. A few degrees in temperature higher or lower and we can be as good as extinct.

    It neglects to show the fact that is evolution, which adequately explains the progression of life from simple celled to complex beings.

    It conveniently omits the suffering, intolerance and ignorance that reigned when god with his cohorts ruled the roost.

    To tell the truth the world still seems more wonderous and amazing without a god who created it in six days then needed a rest.

    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Is there a God?
     Reply #6 - November 28, 2008, 08:37 PM

    the world still seems more wonderous and amazing without a god who created it in six days then needed a rest


    That's the god of religion.

    If there is a god he is not the god described in any religion.
  • Re: Is there a God?
     Reply #7 - November 28, 2008, 08:58 PM

    Beautiful vid Hassan.
    I think 'god' is that evolving part of human conciousness which struggles to make sense of anything we don't yet understand. Not very prosaic, I know.

    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Is there a God?
     Reply #8 - November 28, 2008, 08:59 PM

    the world still seems more wonderous and amazing without a god who created it in six days then needed a rest


    That's the god of religion.

    If there is a god he is not the god described in any religion.


    Then why would he/she create and abandon his/her children?

    Would we understand if a parent created kids and then pissed off with no word, left them in the wilderness with no guide or lessons in life, and just watched them secretly with no contact, even leaving them to die with no contact?

    Unless you believe a guide was left, or that contact was made, in which case you are left with the religions that you say you don't believe in.  Huh?

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Is there a God?
     Reply #9 - November 28, 2008, 09:54 PM

    why would he/she create and abandon his/her children?


    I don't know. But the fact that I don't know isn't enough to convince me there is no god.

    There maybe explanations beyond our present understanding. I've heard some people talk about God being part of and in all creation - and that our separateness is an illusion and that we are all one - parts of the divine.

    I'm not saying that is what I believe - but only that there maybe an explantion we simply can't comprehend.

    I can understand the temptation to say 'This is how I see it with my logic and reason and I see no evidence for a God' - but I can't help thinking that there may be a life after death and a level of existence where one will realise that the logic and reason we used on this plane was  only one tiny dimension of a much greater reality.

    The truth is I simply don't know - anything.

    Which is why I have a problem with atheism - because it is so sure of itself.

    I can't see that there is anything to be sure of at all.
  • Re: Is there a God?
     Reply #10 - November 28, 2008, 10:17 PM

    I liked the video, Hassan. You probably know my opinion of god(s) by now. I can see that you can't help but think there to be a wise and powerful force that created us. But how? Can't you also see the many ridiculous flaws in the "design" of the human being?
    Take for example the fact that some sick mothers inflict pain on their child in such a way that they need to see a doctor, doing that only for the pleasure of taking care and getting the child healthy again afterwards. And this cycle would continue until somebody takes notice of it or the mother eventually stops.
    Another, related, sickness exists where some mothers can't feel any affection towards their newly-born babies. They sometimes feel the urge to push a pillow or a blanket on the face of the baby, often taking it off at the right moment to see if the baby is still alive. Unfortunately some poor babies die because of the behaviour of the mother with this psychological illness. There are many, many more unacceptable flaws in humans, like genetic diseases, pedophilia, addiction to drugs, obesity, classic stupidity etc.
    I do see how aesthetic the world is, but I can't imagine a wise and loving creator who's behind all of this. Hassan, I think you're trying to clutch at straws, trying to have faith in a mysterious, undefinable God. For every deist there has to come a time where they have to begin mourning the death or absence of God, and learn not to give a shit, like He doesn't about you.

    German ex-Muslim forumMy YouTubeList of Ex-Muslims
    Wikis: en de fr ar tr
    CEMB-Chat
    I'm on an indefinite break...
  • Re: Is there a God?
     Reply #11 - November 28, 2008, 10:19 PM

    the world still seems more wonderous and amazing without a god who created it in six days then needed a rest


    That's the god of religion.

    If there is a god he is not the god described in any religion.

    Such an alien does not exist. Too small a possibility that it exists. However If such an alien does exist, that would be very grave news Hassan. It would be then our responsibility, to hunt it down and neutralize it and die trying before it causes more harm.

    I would be honored Hassan to die shoulder to shoulder beside you on our way to destroy such a methuselah if it exists, but I hope I never need to have that honor.

    Cheers,

    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: Is there a God?
     Reply #12 - November 28, 2008, 10:37 PM

    The truth is I simply don't know - anything.

    Which is why I have a problem with atheism - because it is so sure of itself.

    I can't see that there is anything to be sure of at all.


    We do know quite a few things, Hassan. You're right, though, that nobody knows if there really, really is no God and no afterlife. However, I couldn't care less if there really, really is one, because to my mind it has to be the most incompetent supreme being there can be. Though, I guess we have to give it some kudos for simulating a nice universe with funny properties. The graphics are cool, but the game is often cruel or depressing.

    Anyway, I don't think your understanding of atheism is correct. What you refer to is known as positive or strong atheism, a view held by people who claim to know that there is no supreme being. I personally am an agnostic leaning very strongly toward atheism, so for all intents and purposes, I'm a(n) (weak) atheist.

    German ex-Muslim forumMy YouTubeList of Ex-Muslims
    Wikis: en de fr ar tr
    CEMB-Chat
    I'm on an indefinite break...
  • Re: Is there a God?
     Reply #13 - November 28, 2008, 10:40 PM

    I'm a(n) (weak) atheist.


    Me too  Afro

    I can't say with 100% surety that there is no god, but I am definately leaning to that conclusion.  The more I wonder the more I lean.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Is there a God?
     Reply #14 - November 28, 2008, 11:41 PM

    I'm quite a strong atheist. Short, but strong! I've been known to hurt people with a single punch Cheesy

    I'll get me jubbah...

    "At 8:47 I do a grenade jump off a ladder."
  • Re: Is there a God?
     Reply #15 - November 29, 2008, 01:24 AM

    Quote from: Hassan
    I'm not saying that is what I believe - but only that there maybe an explantion we simply can't comprehend.

    I can understand the temptation to say 'This is how I see it with my logic and reason and I see no evidence for a God' - but I can't help thinking that there may be a life after death and a level of existence where one will realise that the logic and reason we used on this plane was  only one tiny dimension of a much greater reality.

    The truth is I simply don't know - anything.

    Which is why I have a problem with atheism - because it is so sure of itself.

    I can't see that there is anything to be sure of at all.


    Personally I do not believe in any gods. I consider that that makes me an atheist. Can I with the information available today completely deny the presence of a god? No I don't feel so, and in that way I'm agnostic. I have no problems stating that I'm both, cause I sincerely do not believe in any gods, but at the same time I can't be 100 % sure. What I feel many at this forum tend to think is that there's a heck lot of different depiction of a god, which we can deny to exist. So I have a feeling that you also consider that you can be sure of that Smiley

    I consider myself a strong atheist as Dawkins considers himself a strong atheist, not an 100 % atheist, cause with the information at hand today we cannot completely rule out the possibillity, it just seems highly improbable.

    And I agree with KT that it's difficult to discuss the questio of a god unless one makes the effort to try to gives this god some attributes.

    Finally I personally have no qualms with deists at all, non other than the relaxed philosophical chit-chats. The important thing is that there's no 'dogma', no projection of rules of society to some deity. We all agree to cooperate to make the best of the situation from our collective ideas and thoughts.

    Quote
    There maybe explanations beyond our present understanding. I've heard some people talk about God being part of and in all creation - and that our separateness is an illusion and that we are all one - parts of the divine.


    As far as I've read of some vedic philosophy that's a central idea of the religious institution (and othe asian religious groups) we call hinduism (now of course as in any other religious institutions there's tons of different interpretations; ie. different sects have different "highgods"); here the notion of 'atman' is our percieved illusion of the material world, when we make a proper understandment of the world and all we get "saved" back to 'Brahma' (the universal soul). The other's (me) get's to reborn again and again, also in the following universe build by Brahma after this one has been destroyed by Siva (this repeats itself Smiley ) Erhm... well you can read a lot of different interpretation and philosophies of these ideas and concepts.
  • Re: Is there a God?
     Reply #16 - November 29, 2008, 10:29 AM

    The graphics are cool, but the game is often cruel or depressing


    LOL... that was good  Afro

  • Re: Is there a God?
     Reply #17 - November 29, 2008, 10:30 AM

    I'm quite a strong atheist. Short, but strong! I've been known to hurt people with a single punch Cheesy

    I'll get me jubbah...


    Hey, you wouldn't hit a weak Deist with rose coloured spectacles, would you?
  • Re: Is there a God?
     Reply #18 - November 29, 2008, 10:40 AM

    What I feel many at this forum tend to think is that there's a heck lot of different depiction of a god, which we can deny to exist. So I have a feeling that you also consider that you can be sure of that


    Yes, the descriptions of God - particularly in the Abrahamic religions - are completely monsterous and ridiculous.
  • Re: Is there a God?
     Reply #19 - November 29, 2008, 10:49 AM

    Is there a God?

    I believe so,

    because I want to believe so.


    There will be no white flag above our door
  • Re: Is there a God?
     Reply #20 - November 29, 2008, 12:13 PM

    The images in the vid are lovely.  Lucky you disabled comments though, or you would now have Michael Behe fans crawling all over you to claim you as one of their own.

    Me, I'm just wondering what kind of a wise and powerful force created the Ebola virus.   Wink

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Is there a God?
     Reply #21 - November 29, 2008, 12:49 PM

    The fact remains that while you're young you can say what  you like about life.

    But when you get older, you start to think differently.

    And when you are on your deathbead,

    VERY DIFFERENTLY.

    There will be no white flag above our door
  • Re: Is there a God?
     Reply #22 - November 29, 2008, 03:17 PM

    The fact remains that while you're young you can say what  you like about life.

    But when you get older, you start to think differently.

    And when you are on your deathbead,

    VERY DIFFERENTLY.

    I beg to differ Chas. If I read you correctly you're sliding into 'everlasting-life insurance.' That's having had your cake and still wanting to eat it. I'm reliably informed that I've been on my deathbed, as you put it, but briefly and I can honestly say that belief, making my peace, suddenly rediscovering belief, etc did not come into my (assumed) final reckoning at all. I just thought, 'well, if this is it, it's not too bad'. If a priest of any persuasion had come anywhere near me I'd have told him to fuck off in no uncertain terms.

    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Is there a God?
     Reply #23 - November 29, 2008, 04:36 PM

    Hey, you wouldn't hit a weak Deist with rose coloured spectacles, would you?

    Don't worry, I'll take my rose coloured spectacles off before throwing any punches Tongue

    "At 8:47 I do a grenade jump off a ladder."
  • Re: Is there a God?
     Reply #24 - November 29, 2008, 07:51 PM

    So Hassan have you thought of some attributes of your god? or shall we might as well start arguing about if pink unicorns appear at the end of my garden when no one is looking!
  • Re: Is there a God?
     Reply #25 - November 29, 2008, 08:21 PM

    So Hassan have you thought of some attributes of your god?


    I'm not in the business 'thinking' up attributes.
  • Re: Is there a God?
     Reply #26 - November 29, 2008, 09:37 PM

    So Hassan have you thought of some attributes of your god?


    I'm not in the business 'thinking' up attributes.



    You don't have to H. Someone else has thought up a whole bunch, so we can pick  and choose.   Roll Eyes

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/god




    A couple of my favorite quotes.



    Quote
    The most ridiculous concept ever perpetrated by H.Sapiens is that the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of the Universes, wants the sacharrine adoration of his creations, that he can be persuaded by their prayers, and becomes petulant if he does not recieve this flattery. Yet this ridiculous notion, without one real shred of evidence to bolster it, has gone on to found one of the oldest, largest, and least productive industries in history. The second most preposterous notion is that copulation is inherently sinful. 

    Robert Heinlein


    Quote
    When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, 'This you may not read, this you may not see, this you are forbidden to know,' the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter how holy the motives. Mighty little force is needed to control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything--you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him. 

    Robert Heinlein


    I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I remain.
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »