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 Topic: Australia: Cleric 'must deny' views on rape

 (Read 2637 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Australia: Cleric 'must deny' views on rape
     OP - January 22, 2009, 10:49 AM

    Quote
    A Muslim cleric in Australia who said men have a right to force their wives to have sex has been told to apologise by Prime Minister Kevin Rudd.

    The cleric, Samir Abu Hamza, reportedly questioned how rape can exist within marriage, and encouraged "light beating" of disobedient women.

    "I would call upon this Islamic cleric to publicly apologise and repudiate his remarks," Mr Rudd said.

    He told reporters that such views have no place in Australia.

    "Under no circumstances is sexual violence permissible or acceptable in Australia," he said.

    "Nor are they acceptable in my view to mainstream Muslim teachings," he said of the views apparently supporting violent treatment of women.

    Samir Abu Hamza runs the Islamic Information and Services Network of Australasia and, according to local media, is a self-taught cleric, popular with young Muslims in Melbourne's northern suburbs.

    'Amazing'

    His 2003 lecture entitled The Keys To A Successful Marriage has been posted on the internet in a 50-minute video.

    In this, Mr Hamza tells his audience that hitting their wives is not allowed but a light smacking is.

    "You beat them... but this is the last resort, after you have advised them for a long, long time, then you smack them, you beat them.

    "You are not allowed to bruise them, you are not allowed to make them bleed, this is just to shape them up - 'shape up woman' - that's about it.

    "You don't go and get a broomstick."

    The Australian-born Mr Hamza went on to express his disbelief at Australia's legal definition of rape, saying that a woman was not allowed to refuse her husband's requests for sex.

    "Even if her husband was to ask her for a sexual relationship and she is preparing him the bread on the stove, she must leave it and come and respond to her husband," he said.


    "In this country if the husband wants to sleep with his wife and she does not want to and... there's nothing wrong with her, she just does not want to, and he ends up sleeping with her by force, it is... known to be as a rape.

    "Amazing. How can a person rape his wife?"

    Mr Rudd said the cleric's remarks "have no place in modern Australia at all".

    "I would say to this Islamic cleric: Australia will not tolerate these sort of remarks. They don't belong in modern Australia and he should stand up, repudiate them and apologise," Mr Rudd said.

    Mr Hamza was reported to be on leave and unavailable for comment.

    A leading Islamic cleric, Sheikh Taj Aldin al-Hilali, was replaced as Mufti of Australia in 2007 after creating a storm of protest when he described scantily-dressed women as "uncovered meat" inviting rape.


    Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7843909.stm

    At first I thought this was the same guy who called non-hijabis 'uncovered meat' but nope, it's someone else.  Disgusting...

    Australia appears to have many of the same problems as the U.K. when it comes to it's Muslim communities.

    Discuss...

    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: Australia: Cleric 'must deny' views on rape
     Reply #1 - January 22, 2009, 10:57 AM

    At the most literalistic level of interpreting Islam, he was merely saying what Islam says.  It's all there in black and white, a book for life etc etc.

    But with this more muslims will see that "hold on, wait up, a leading imam is forcing this guy to apologise, and saying it's not allowed, so maybe the black and white is wrong".....or at least i hope that's  one thing that will come out of it.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Australia: Cleric 'must deny' views on rape
     Reply #2 - January 22, 2009, 11:31 AM

    Owned by the Rudd-master!  Afro

    I don't like Ruddy much, but this has to be some good news that has come from the Aussie government.

    The cleric was reported to be on leave? That's convenient.
  • Re: Australia: Cleric 'must deny' views on rape
     Reply #3 - January 22, 2009, 04:11 PM

    At the most literalistic level of interpreting Islam, he was merely saying what Islam says.  It's all there in black and white, a book for life etc etc.

    But with this more muslims will see that "hold on, wait up, a leading imam is forcing this guy to apologise, and saying it's not allowed, so maybe the black and white is wrong".....or at least i hope that's  one thing that will come out of it.


    Muhammad said: "If a husband calls his wife to his bed (i.e. to have sexual relation) and she refuses and causes him to sleep in anger, the angels will curse her till morning." -- Bukhari 4.54.460

    In another hadith, Muhammad says: "By him in Whose Hand lies my life, a woman can not carry out the right of her Lord, till she carries out the right of her husband. And if he asks her to surrender herself (to him for sexual intercourse) she should not refuse him even if she is on a camel's saddle." -- Ibn Majah 1854

    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: Australia: Cleric 'must deny' views on rape
     Reply #4 - January 22, 2009, 04:33 PM

    That would be why I said it was all there in black and white, and why I said that hopefully every time a muslim imam comes out in public saying it's simply not true, more uneducated muslims will believe that it's not true.

    I mean the majority of muslims don't even read the texts, maybe by the time they do grab a text book to read it, they are already brainwashed into believing that islam does NOT allow domestic violence, so they won't accept it.

    In this way islam may reform...........maybe.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Australia: Cleric 'must deny' views on rape
     Reply #5 - January 23, 2009, 12:45 AM

    Quote
    The cleric was reported to be on leave? That's convenient.

    Also convenient is Rudd bringing this up a year after the speech was posted to YouTube and 6 years after the actual speech, but just prior to the Australia Day weekend.

    Rudd, who makes a big deal about being a devout Christian, said "Under no circumstances are other forms of violence, physical violence towards women, acceptable in Australia, nor are they acceptable in my view to mainstream Muslim teachings. You mean he has never heard that this is the mainstream interpretation of 4:34? I find that, and the timing of his request of Samir Abu Hamza, unusual to say the least.

    In any case:  Yep_True.

    The language of the mob was only the language of public opinion cleansed of hypocrisy and restraint - Hannah Arendt.
  • Re: Australia: Cleric 'must deny' views on rape
     Reply #6 - January 23, 2009, 06:14 AM

    I am having a debate with someone about Abu Hamza (that person is defending Hamza) on his youtube clip:

    http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=cqExxy0IoAc

    @ abdal: Touche, my friend. True, but at least he has asked for an apology from him.

    Australia Day is scary :( I hate going to the foreshore with fear of getting stabbed :(
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