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Theme Changer

 Topic: The other side of Pakistan

 (Read 6866 times)
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  • Re: The other side of Pakistan
     Reply #30 - April 16, 2009, 03:50 PM

    The creation of nation-states following the French Revolution were all bloody and sometimes outright genocidal. No other country received as much criticism as Israel, for obvious reasons.

    I don't see a lot of difference between the creation of Pakistan and Israel either. Perhaps the most important difference is that while Israel is still secular, Pakistan is not. The two countries are supposed to be either equally legitimate, or equally illegitimate.

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: The other side of Pakistan
     Reply #31 - April 16, 2009, 03:57 PM

    The creation of nation-states following the French Revolution were all bloody and sometimes outright genocidal. No other country received as much criticism as Israel, for obvious reasons.

    I don't see a lot of difference between the creation of Pakistan and Israel either. Perhaps the most important difference is that while Israel is still secular, Pakistan is not. The two countries are supposed to be either equally legitimate, or equally illegitimate.


    Pakistan is secular. It was created as a secular state, Jinnah was a secular politician and not religious, it has secular government and does not have Shariah law (except in the NWFP where they gave in to the Taliban), Non-Muslims have freedom under the law and so on.

    I don't think that partition should have happened but it has and there is no changing that. But the difference between Pakistan and Israel is Pakistan is not still in control of the people it displaced, Pakistan does not treat them like second class citizens, kill them, and commit atrocities against them.

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: The other side of Pakistan
     Reply #32 - April 16, 2009, 04:05 PM

    Quote from: aliadiere
    Pakistan is secular.

    You must be joking. Can you please explain why Pakistan has blasphemy laws, then?

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: The other side of Pakistan
     Reply #33 - April 16, 2009, 04:11 PM

    Quote from: aliadiere
    Pakistan is secular.

    You must be joking. Can you please explain why Pakistan has blasphemy laws, then?

    A secular nation that specifically granted the rights for a certain part of it to be controlled by Shariah Law?

    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: The other side of Pakistan
     Reply #34 - April 16, 2009, 04:16 PM

    Pakistan is secular. It was created as a secular state, Jinnah was a secular politician and not religious, it has secular government and does not have Shariah law (except in the NWFP where they gave in to the Taliban), Non-Muslims have freedom under the law and so on.

    I don't think that partition should have happened but it has and there is no changing that. But the difference between Pakistan and Israel is Pakistan is not still in control of the people it displaced, Pakistan does not treat them like second class citizens, kill them, and commit atrocities against them.


    1) Pakistan is secular-  Cheesy

    Even apart from the blasphemy laws which Zaephon has pointed out, Pakistan required 4 male witnesses for rape from 1976 to 2006-as per Shariah, last I heard, Jews in Israel don't get raped women married off to their rapists or stone adulteresses as per OT Commands, & never had any laws remotely resembling those.

    2) Jinnah was a secular politician:

    So was Golda Meir, Theodore Hertzl & the majority of Israel's founders.

    3) Israel still controls people it displaced.

    Not true, Israel doesn't control say the people settled in Jordan, Israel was carved out of a Brit colony & Jordan was also part of that. Jordan recognizes Israel's right to exist, just like India recognizes Pakistan's right to exist. Had the rest of those displaced recognized Israel's right to exist, things would be very different.

    As for controlling Gazans are concerned, it would be the heights of foolishness if it gave up controlling people who's official policy is wiping it off the map.

    Pakistan doesn't face a neighbour wanting to wipe it off the map. As for Kashmiri non Muslims, you can check this out:

    www.kashmiri-pandit.org/sundry/genocide.html

    I have neighbours near my maternal grandparents house, who've fled Kashmir.

    Are the people displaced from Pakistan(or Bangladesh) regularly entering Bangladesh, planting bombs there, ambushing them or blowing themselves out there?

    Are those attacks then treated as sacred explosions, with the martyr's family thrilled & the friends & family of the attacker thrilled that he's enjoying his 72 virgins in Paradise?

    Most of the people displaced from either Israel or Pakistan are no longer alive, the descendants of those displaced from Pak & Bangladesh are getting on with their lives, while the descendants of those displaced from Israel are still filling up the heads of their kids' with hatred for Jews- castigating them as apes & pigs &  teaching them to blow Jews up in Israel & get the lands back.

    As Golda Meir said, "There will be peace when the Arabs love their children more than they hate us."

    The descendants of those who fled Pak are busy making their lives better, while those who were forced to flee Israel are still holding a grudge & their Muslim co religionists are continually stirring up hatred against Jews. whistling2

    Had France voted for a Government which wanted to wipe it off the map, or Canada voted for a Government wanting to wipe U.S.A. off the map, & the other countries had the military might to protest-they'd undoubtedly take the same steps Israelis do.

    Quote from: aliadiere
    Pakistan is secular.

    You must be joking. Can you please explain why Pakistan has blasphemy laws, then?

    A secular nation that specifically granted the rights for a certain part of it to be controlled by Shariah Law?


    Blasphemy laws, like the laws requiring 4 male witnesses for rape(repealed a couple of years back) apply to all Pakistan.

    As for Southern Thailand & Southern Phillipines, they might be different lands, but the philosophy remains the same, they're not pursuing secular Marxist struggles, or even ethnic nationalist struggles, their motto is very Islamic, they call themselves mujahideen.

    Islam divides the world into Dar ul Islam-the House of Islam & Dar ul Harb or the House of War-the latter designation indicates how they hope their disputes with other would be solved.

    Thus, its perfectly allright to demand lands in Thailand, India or Philippines or anywhere else, & deprive others in the process-but its a grevious outrage should they lose even an inch of land-then that has to be retrieved at all costs.

    I don't see Israel at any wars with either Jordan or Egypt, both of whom recognize Israel's right to exist, did the Hamas even once recognize Israel's right to exist? Did Iran?

    If a rapist or murderer roams about loose with the statement that their aim is a rape or murder in the future as soon as it becomes a feasible option, & promises a temporary reconciliation only as it lacks strength, then of course, any sensible person who's threatened with the rape or murder is going to take measures to protect themselves. Only once the rapist or murderer abandones all aims of commiting the crime, will the other person consider a reconciliation.

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: The other side of Pakistan
     Reply #35 - April 16, 2009, 07:30 PM

    Jinnah was not a religious man, was a secularist and some even claim he was an atheist or an agnostic, and his vision of Pakistan was a secular state.


    As for Jinnah's secularism, the guy wasn't quite as secular as you'd like to portray him!
    In his late forties, he married an 18 year old Zoroastrian born woman, Rattanbai, after converting her to Islam, they had a daughter Dina-Jinnah's only child, whom Jinnah raised a Muslim.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rattanbai_Petit

    Relations between Jinnah & Dina became strained when she wanted to marry a Zoroastrian(her mom's former faith) man & her father told her in no uncertain terms, "There are millions of Muslim men in this country, you can marry any one of them, but not him."

    His spunky daughter replied, "There were millions of Muslim women in this country, why did you marry my mom & not one of them?"  dance

    Jinnah's reply, typical of a Muslim, "But she became Muslim." Tongue

    Jinnah's daughter refused to accept her father's unreasonable views, went ahead & married her Zoroastrian paramour, but her father cut off almost all relations with his only child, & only referred to her in letters as "Mrs Wadia." finmad

    Hell, my granddad is a devout Muslim & faithfully adheres to Islam's 5 pillars, never breaking a single rule-but even he did not break off all relations with my mother, he loves her as much as ever inspite of her marriage to a Zoroastrian!  Roll Eyes

    I can guarantee that had my grandpa married a Zoroastrian himself, he wouldn't be hypocritic enough to object to my mom's marriage!

    Thus to your secular Jinnah, it was perfectly acceptable to marry a Zoroastrian woman after converting her to Islam-but he still adhered to Quran 2:221 which prohibits Muslimahs to marry non Muslim men, & he could cooly express this hypocrisy & even cut off most ties with his child due to her marriage-even though he himself had married similarly.

    Another example of Muslim double standards-from your example of Jinnah! bunny

    Read Dina Wadia's interesting love story & her Dad's double standards below: 001_wub

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dina_Wadia

    I like this story as it has some similarites to my parents story-Muslim woman & Zoroastrian man( & Muslim woman's hypocritic daddy, not like my grandpa)! cheers



    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: The other side of Pakistan
     Reply #36 - April 16, 2009, 07:51 PM

    Rashna, could you quote an independent source which quotes Iranian government officials wanting to wipe Israel off the map? Do you just accept anything in the media to be true?
  • Re: The other side of Pakistan
     Reply #37 - April 16, 2009, 11:25 PM

    haha, this reminds me of something I saw in Indonesia.
    I was just watching TV, and there was this show following this lady on hajj. The whole time there was something "off" about her...but I couldnt put my finger on it.  Thinking hard

    I was like...is that a dude in a hiijab  Huh?
    ....no, cant be...how does a transvestite go on hajj?

    Few months later....I see an article in a magazine..it was the lady from the show.....its Dorce Gamalama, transexual gossip talk show host.

    world is full of surprises

    The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
    superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
    is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
    -Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

     "Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags."  -Ibl
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