Allah has not made for any man two hearts in his (one) body

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- TheRationalizer
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Allah has not made for any man two hearts in his (one) body
OP - December 13, 2014, 10:43 PM

Quran 33.4 says "Allah made no man with two hearts

I'll raise that bet by two extra feet and a penis!
Baby born with two hearts

I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
- justperusing
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Allah has not made for any man two hearts in his (one) body
Reply #1 - December 13, 2014, 10:53 PM

Oh man poor thing. He probably isn't gonna last too long.

I know this seems like an easy shot at the Quran, but it really is a sad circumstance

"I moreover believe that any religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system."
-Thomas Paine
- Zaotar
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Allah has not made for any man two hearts in his (one) body
Reply #2 - December 14, 2014, 01:03 AM

Ironically that aya is even less correct when taken as a metaphor instead of literal biology. Having two biological hearts is rare. Having opposing feelings of love is a basic human condition.

33:4 is probably a very late interpolation btw, see David Powers' book, which helps explain its bizarre and contrived content + form.
- kephas
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Allah has not made for any man two hearts in his (one) body
Reply #3 - December 14, 2014, 06:37 AM

just in case if the muslim apologist tries to excuse the verse with saying that the word "heart" here is not referring to the organ itself, here's an argument that proves him wrong: there are hadiths that clearly say that the "qalb" is a "piece of flesh" (mudhgha).

http://sunnah.com/bukhari/2/45
http://sunnah.com/muslim/22/133

Of course it can also mean psychological, but since it uses the word "piece of flesh", the meaning of a physical organ cannot be separated from the word qalb as it was understood by the prophet according to these hadiths. it would be ridiculous for a person to refer to mere psychological faculties excluding any reference to the physical organ as a "piece of flesh".

another point which comes to mind is that the verse says "Allah has not made for any man two hearts in his body". The word "his body" here supports the position that the verse is talking about the heart in a corporeal sense. the intellect/emotion of a man is not confined in the body, but in his psyche. yet the quran here is talking about the heart which is in "the body". but then again I don't know how sound this argument is, since the Arabic word used is "jaufih". whether or not "jaufih" could refer to anything else other than the corporeal body, that I don't know.

"we stand firm calling to allah all the time,
we let them know - bang! bang! - coz it's dawah time!"
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Allah has not made for any man two hearts in his (one) body
Reply #4 - December 14, 2014, 07:36 AM

It seems that the original idea was that all our feelings, ideas and inclinations (basically, our "being") was found in the heart (and not our brain as we know today). This is the belief we find both in Quran, hadith, and classical work from scholars on the matter from all periods of time. Even today, a lot of Muslim scholars try to argue for heart vs brain, I've heard it myself as a student. So whether or not you read that particular verse to be metaphorical or literal, both will be "correct" according to the Islamic texts in general. And according to modern science and knowledge, we know that both interpretations are utterly incorrect. By the way, heart being our "essence" was a widespread belief during this time.

"The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
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Allah has not made for any man two hearts in his (one) body
Reply #5 - December 14, 2014, 11:10 AM

Quote from: kephas on December 14, 2014, 06:37 AM
just in case if the muslim apologist tries to excuse the verse with saying that the word "heart" here is not referring to the organ itself, here's an argument that proves him wrong: there are hadiths that clearly say that the "qalb" is a "piece of flesh" (mudhgha).

http://sunnah.com/bukhari/2/45
http://sunnah.com/muslim/22/133

Of course it can also mean psychological, but since it uses the word "piece of flesh", the meaning of a physical organ cannot be separated from the word qalb as it was understood by the prophet according to these hadiths. it would be ridiculous for a person to refer to mere psychological faculties excluding any reference to the physical organ as a "piece of flesh".

another point which comes to mind is that the verse says "Allah has not made for any man two hearts in his body". The word "his body" here supports the position that the verse is talking about the heart in a corporeal sense. the intellect/emotion of a man is not confined in the body, but in his psyche. yet the quran here is talking about the heart which is in "the body". but then again I don't know how sound this argument is, since the Arabic word used is "jaufih". whether or not "jaufih" could refer to anything else other than the corporeal body, that I don't know.

I'm afraid you are wrong, it doesn't only mean the physical heart "piece of flesh".

Qalb (as well as Sadr and lub/albab) are frequently used in a metaphorical sense in the Qur'an. It is very often used as a metaphor for the mind and the seat of thinking, comprehension, feelings and emotions.

For example:

"The have hearts with which they do not understand" (7:179)

لهم قلوب لا يفقهون

But as Zaotar rightly says:

Quote from: Zaotar on December 14, 2014, 01:03 AM
Ironically that aya is even less correct when taken as a metaphor instead of literal biology. Having two biological hearts is rare. Having opposing feelings of love is a basic human condition.
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Allah has not made for any man two hearts in his (one) body
Reply #6 - December 14, 2014, 11:13 AM

Quote from: Cornflower on December 14, 2014, 07:36 AM
It seems that the original idea was that all our feelings, ideas and inclinations (basically, our "being") was found in the heart (and not our brain as we know today). This is the belief we find both in Quran, hadith, and classical work from scholars on the matter from all periods of time. Even today, a lot of Muslim scholars try to argue for heart vs brain, I've heard it myself as a student. So whether or not you read that particular verse to be metaphorical or literal, both will be "correct" according to the Islamic texts in general. And according to modern science and knowledge, we know that both interpretations are utterly incorrect. By the way, heart being our "essence" was a widespread belief during this time.

Spot on!
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Allah has not made for any man two hearts in his (one) body
Reply #7 - December 14, 2014, 02:32 PM

^I wouldn't even call it a metaphor because classical Islamic belief holds that the heart IS our mind and place of thinking.

"The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
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Allah has not made for any man two hearts in his (one) body
Reply #8 - December 14, 2014, 02:58 PM

Quote from: Abu Ali on December 14, 2014, 11:10 AM
I'm afraid you are wrong, it doesn't only mean the physical heart "piece of flesh".

Qalb (as well as Sadr and lub/albab) are frequently used in a metaphorical sense in the Qur'an. It is very often used as a metaphor for the mind and the seat of thinking, comprehension, feelings and emotions.

For example:

"The have hearts with which they do not understand" (7:179)

لهم قلوب لا يفقهون

But as Zaotar rightly says:

I believe that cornflower's explanation is right, that the author(s) of the Quran and the early Muslims believe that the actual physical organ itself is the seat of the intellect, will and perception. thus the reason that we find such talk about it being "a piece of flesh" in the hadith, and "in the body" as per the aforementioned verse. Such talk wouldn't make sense if it merely is a metaphor for the psychological faculties. just pointing out to rationalizer in case that if he chooses to use it in the debate, and ATR wishes to define it as metaphorical, then ATR would have to reject the sahih hadith regarding the qalb being a piece of flesh.

"we stand firm calling to allah all the time,
we let them know - bang! bang! - coz it's dawah time!"
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