Nuh Keller Audio files to my questions!

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- Saif Rahman
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Re: Nuh Keller Audio files to my questions!
Reply #30 - August 14, 2009, 11:07 PM

Goodness me! I think I might have to knock that project on the head - that makes the video 1hr & 10 minutes long!

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- Omaar Khayaam
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Re: Nuh Keller Audio files to my questions!
Reply #31 - August 21, 2009, 11:04 AM

Quote from: 20yearstoolong on August 10, 2009, 11:42 AM
Guy's in 2003 I emailed some questions out to Nuh Keller. I got the replies back in mp3 format. If you go to the link below:-

http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/

Go to the audio files and look for this subject "Amman: The Coherence of Islam". Under that title there are some audio files. At this point I was going through serious doubt and would ask the questions under the disguise of my atheist uncle. Please note my real name is referred to in the replies.

Enjoy!

Folks, I've been thinking about this for a bit now and really could do with some input or help. I want to formulate a refutation to the answers that Nuh Keller has presented. I don't think this has been attempted before. I might be mistaken though. If there are any refutations about or if you know of any please let me know. Thanks.
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Re: Nuh Keller Audio files to my questions!
Reply #32 - August 21, 2009, 11:43 AM

Quote from: IsLame on August 14, 2009, 03:17 PM
I might have a go with my blog but not sure if I can be bothered - Ghazali, Peru and Awais might also want to have a think about it...

Nah, I'm not a very good talker and terrible at voice acting. Doing something like that would just make me nervous and stutter. I could find something that imitates Hawking's voice and make audio files out of that, that would be quite entertaining

Quote
I think Peru could do something really entertaining with her hadiths, particularly if she stuck photos at the beginning of each short story. A bit like Jackanory.

I really need to sort those hadiths out and place them into categories to make them easier to find. I really should start that website one day too...

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- Saif Rahman
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Re: Nuh Keller Audio files to my questions!
Reply #33 - August 21, 2009, 08:12 PM

Quote
I really need to sort those hadiths out and place them into categories to make them easier to find. I really should start that website one day too...

Yes, its a great idea and not been done before. I certainly would use it as a reference, even quran-onlys would use it

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- cosmicdancer
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Re: Nuh Keller Audio files to my questions!
Reply #34 - August 21, 2009, 08:37 PM

Quote from: 20yearstoolong on August 21, 2009, 11:04 AM
Folks, I've been thinking about this for a bit now and really could do with some input or help. I want to formulate a refutation to the answers that Nuh Keller has presented. I don't think this has been attempted before. I might be mistaken though. If there are any refutations about or if you know of any please let me know. Thanks.

That means effort... me no likey makey effort... me very lazy...
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Re: Nuh Keller Audio files to my questions!
Reply #35 - August 21, 2009, 08:52 PM

Quote from: fading on August 14, 2009, 12:56 AM
Awlaki is a bit scary. He's really hardcore. I had things by him and I sold them off. I never listened to him, but I bought it because I thought I ought to - because people said how wonderful he was.

I listened to his lectures on prophets and the ahira, I didn't find him to be extreme or wierd, what is odd or extreme about him, just wondering.

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Re: Nuh Keller Audio files to my questions!
Reply #36 - August 21, 2009, 09:24 PM

Quote from: Hassan on August 21, 2009, 08:37 PM
That means effort... me no likey makey effort... me very lazy...

Come on Hass, not audio rebuttals, they can be short paragraphs.
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Re: Nuh Keller Audio files to my questions!
Reply #37 - August 21, 2009, 09:26 PM

Quote from: 20yearstoolong on August 21, 2009, 09:24 PM
Come on Hass, not audio rebuttals, they can be short paragraphs.

lol... ok maybe later when I'm in the mood
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Re: Nuh Keller Audio files to my questions!
Reply #38 - August 21, 2009, 09:27 PM

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lol... ok maybe later when I'm in the mood grin12

Great, cos I wanna see that smug look wiped off their faces.
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Re: Nuh Keller Audio files to my questions!
Reply #39 - August 21, 2009, 09:29 PM

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I listened to his lectures on prophets and the ahira, I didn't find him to be extreme or wierd, what is odd or extreme about him, just wondering.

His support for jihad, what others might call terrorism, and his absolute hatred of anyone or anything that is not Islamic. If you have a look at his blog it is all about jihad this and jihad that. He was also in prison for a while over suspicion or charges that he was aiding terrorists.

http://www.nefafoundation.org/miscellaneous/FeaturedDocs/nefabackgrounder_alawlaki.pdf

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Re: Nuh Keller Audio files to my questions!
Reply #40 - August 21, 2009, 09:30 PM

Fading, do you know if anyone has done any refutations for the Nuh Keller audio?
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Re: Nuh Keller Audio files to my questions!
Reply #41 - August 21, 2009, 10:08 PM

Funny 20 years, as soon as I read your post, I started writing to contacts to see if anyone has done them yet! I'll let you know.

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Re: Nuh Keller Audio files to my questions!
Reply #42 - August 21, 2009, 10:12 PM

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Funny 20 years, as soon as I read your post, I started writing to contacts to see if anyone has done them yet! I'll let you know.

That's great thanks. I know there was a total of about fourteen questions posted and only six or seven were answered. I wonder what he did with the rest.
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Re: Nuh Keller Audio files to my questions!
Reply #43 - August 21, 2009, 11:03 PM

Quote from: PeruvianSkies on August 21, 2009, 11:43 AM
I really need to sort those hadiths out and place them into categories to make them easier to find. I really should start that website one day too...

We'll have a blog plug-in as part of the forum soonish too, so any member will be able to make articles here and update them themselves, unlike the current thing which only has access through admin.

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Re: Nuh Keller Audio files to my questions!
Reply #44 - September 22, 2009, 10:24 AM

Quote from: Cool Canadian on August 21, 2009, 08:52 PM
I listened to his lectures on prophets and the ahira, I didn't find him to be extreme or wierd, what is odd or extreme about him, just wondering.

One of the things Awlaki said in his sira series was that the reason orientalists picked on what the prophet did such as his marriage to Aisha or the Banu Qurayza incident wasn't because of the individual acts themselves but because they didn't acknowledge him as a prophet. If they acknowledged him as a prophet then these things wouldn't be a problem. But the argument seems rather circular. Afterall, it is after reading the sira and the hadith literature that you can attempt to make such a judgement.
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Re: Nuh Keller Audio files to my questions!
Reply #45 - September 22, 2009, 10:33 AM

Wow, Omaar, I listened to Nuh Keller's talks on the Coherence of Islam some time back. They were hilarious! (So the questioner was you! Small world!) Did you listen to what he says about evolution, and how the human species started off with incest? Heheheheh. Do these people never hear themselves speak? How can they attract so many moronic followers, even Western-educated types? It's just beyond me.

Also, there's a new blog up which exposes Nuh Keller and his cult:
http://nuhkeller.blogspot.com/
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Re: Nuh Keller Audio files to my questions!
Reply #46 - September 22, 2009, 10:36 AM

Quote from: Omaar Khayaam on September 22, 2009, 10:24 AM
One of the things Awlaki said in his sira series was that the reason orientalists picked on what the prophet did such as his marriage to Aisha or the Banu Qurayza incident wasn't because of the individual acts themselves but because they didn't acknowledge him as a prophet. If they acknowledged him as a prophet then these things wouldn't be a problem. But the argument seems rather circular. Afterall, it is after reading the sira and the hadith literature that you can attempt to make such a judgment.

What he probably means is that the OT prophets did many things similar to Muhammad, so it's not fair of Westerners (particularly Christian orientalists) to fixate on Muhammad's unsavory acts when their own OT prophets used to act the same way. He's got a point, but a Christian might respond that the OT prophets weren't supposed to be infallible or perfect examples for all time, but were always seen as human beings struggling with the local circumstances as best as they could, whereas Muhammad is supposed to have been the perfect man for all of eternity and all of humanity, and does not come up to the standards required by such a label.
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Re: Nuh Keller Audio files to my questions!
Reply #47 - September 22, 2009, 10:59 AM

Quote from: ned on September 22, 2009, 10:36 AM
What he probably means is that the OT prophets did many things similar to Muhammad, so it's not fair of Westerners (particularly Christian orientalists) to fixate on Muhammad's unsavory acts when their own OT prophets used to act the same way. He's got a point, but a Christian might respond that the OT prophets weren't supposed to be infallible or perfect examples for all time, but were always seen as human beings struggling with the local circumstances as best as they could, whereas Muhammad is supposed to have been the perfect man for all of eternity and all of humanity, and does not come up to the standards required by such a label.

This is it. Once mainstream muslims have ascribed infallibility to the prophet then everything he does is seen to have some wisdom in it no matter how uncomfortable at first glance it might make you feel. Likewise in the Quran the OT prophets are taken as being infallible also, hence the reason why the muslims would say that the things written in the OT about them is wrong and would dismiss it as fabricated lies. Admittedly the orientalists have had there agenda's. It still doesn't excuse the muslims from examining their faith. When muslims write polemics against their christian opponents, why can't the muslims at that point stop their solipsism and take a look at it from the other persons perspective to see what agenda the muslims have? I also don't think it excuses the muslims from reading secular studies not only of islam but other religions.
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Re: Nuh Keller Audio files to my questions!
Reply #48 - September 22, 2009, 12:40 PM

Simple it undermines their claim that Muhammad was the perfect example for Muslims to follow and that Islam is the perfect religion fo mankind. Some Muslim apolgetic websites are good. I did read one recently questioning the Banu Qurayzah incident and its historical accuracy in Ibn Ishaq's rendering of the event. However my problem is with all the authentic hadiths that attribute morally controversial acts to the prophet. For example his marriage to Aisha. This if you are a Muslim, you need to believed happened and that raises serious doubts over the ethical character of Muhammad. I think Muslims need to recognise him as a man of his time rather than one who can be judged by the moral standards of the 21st century.

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