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Theme Changer

 Topic: The Love of God

 (Read 3790 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • The Love of God
     OP - September 04, 2009, 06:52 AM

     I was speaking with my ex wife, yesterday about my youngest daughter. Since our divorce Humble, my daughter has been going through bouts of depression over my having moved to Washington state, although I visit during the summer, and call almost everyday. After getting off the phone with them I thought about something someone posted on one of my posts when I mentioned something about disciplining my daughter. I doubt it was meant to be disrespectful or anything, but it caused a thought to come to mind. Do children who are raised in a religious home fare better than children who are raised in a home that is Atheist, or follows no specific religious faith?
     
  • Re: The Love of God
     Reply #1 - September 04, 2009, 07:05 AM

    Hi Imam,

    I don't think it makes any difference, just good and bad parents.

    Great name Humble, I hope it reflects her character. Recently tried to change my daughters name to Arrogant, Know-it-All, but it's too late now Smiley

    Ha Ha.
  • Re: The Love of God
     Reply #2 - September 04, 2009, 07:28 AM

    I was speaking with my ex wife, yesterday about my youngest daughter. Since our divorce Humble, my daughter has been going through bouts of depression over my having moved to Washington state, although I visit during the summer, and call almost everyday. After getting off the phone with them I thought about something someone posted on one of my posts when I mentioned something about disciplining my daughter. I doubt it was meant to be disrespectful or anything, but it caused a thought to come to mind. Do children who are raised in a religious home fare better than children who are raised in a home that is Atheist, or follows no specific religious faith?
     


    Makes no difference whatsoever. I know parents who are religious, but their kids have revolted against their parents and are ill-mannered. Whereas I know kids who have been brought up by completely secular parents without religion, those kid are highly intelligent, have good ethics and morals and are cultured.
  • Re: The Love of God
     Reply #3 - September 04, 2009, 08:23 AM

    I was speaking with my ex wife, yesterday about my youngest daughter. Since our divorce Humble, my daughter has been going through bouts of depression over my having moved to Washington state, although I visit during the summer, and call almost everyday. After getting off the phone with them I thought about something someone posted on one of my posts when I mentioned something about disciplining my daughter. I doubt it was meant to be disrespectful or anything, but it caused a thought to come to mind. Do children who are raised in a religious home fare better than children who are raised in a home that is Atheist, or follows no specific religious faith?
      


    Makes no difference imho. You can find good, decent, moral, respectful etc children in all sorts of families - with religion and none and of course the reverse is true also.

    Smiley
  • Re: The Love of God
     Reply #4 - September 04, 2009, 08:52 AM

    Contrary to the others, I think it does make a difference if you follow the religion as it was meant to be followed. 

    I remember the fear of Hell frightening the living daylights out of me as a child, the disappointment and anger when God did not answer my prayers, the stark difference between men & women, Prophet Mohammed's example of smashing idols and culling others belief systems, the way I was made to feel different from everyone else, from the food I ate (I had to have special meals prepared for me in the dining hall), to the clothes I wore, to the way I thought, this list goes on.  I felt controlled, unhappy and unable to be myself.

    My belief is that we should do what is right based on humanistic principles, and not what some 7th century book and person has prescribed - the world has moved on and we should too.

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  • Re: The Love of God
     Reply #5 - September 04, 2009, 09:18 AM

    There are the pro's and cons. ButI find religious kids grow up thinking they are better than others. They have been blessed by god. They have not been misled like the others, they are not on the wrong path. They have a special place in god's heart.

    You give precedence to people of your faith. You feel for those in the ummah if something bad should happen but turn a blind eye to those outside of it. You call people by names such as infidels, kuffar, cow-worshippers which demeans a significant portion of humanity.

    The religious do tend to encourage more morals than the irreligious. But sometimes those morals can lead to extremes such as honor killings.

    In the long run it can be more unhealthy depending on the level of religious indoctrination.

    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: The Love of God
     Reply #6 - September 04, 2009, 09:41 AM

    Yeah, reminds me of this kid from a religious family who lived down the street from me when I was young. Arrogant little prick. "You're going to hell." He says to me for no apparent reason as I'm walking with my friends. "I'm not going to hell, you're going to hell for being an arrogant little prick! Tongue", He runs home crying to his mother, then his mother comes out at me like a dragon, "My sons not going to hell! You take it back!" Roll Eyes

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: The Love of God
     Reply #7 - September 04, 2009, 09:56 AM


    My belief is that we should do what is right based on humanistic principles, and not what some 7th century book and person has prescribed - the world has moved on and we should too.


    You say that as though everyone dips into the good book before deciding what to do. I think we, as people, have moved on a lot, and a long time ago from 7th century books - in general anyway, there will always be some nutters.

    Ha Ha.
  • Re: The Love of God
     Reply #8 - September 04, 2009, 10:01 AM

    I was speaking with my ex wife, yesterday about my youngest daughter. Since our divorce Humble, my daughter has been going through bouts of depression over my having moved to Washington state, although I visit during the summer, and call almost everyday. After getting off the phone with them I thought about something someone posted on one of my posts when I mentioned something about disciplining my daughter. I doubt it was meant to be disrespectful or anything, but it caused a thought to come to mind. Do children who are raised in a religious home fare better than children who are raised in a home that is Atheist, or follows no specific religious faith?
     


    Children raised in a religious home are definitely likely to be religious. But they are also unhappy and confused for the rest of their lives. Some researches, as well as my personal observation, suggest that children raised in religious homes are more likely to suffer from depression and have a higher suicidal rate/tendencies.

    Let's put it in different words.

    How can you expect your child to be mentally and emotionally healthy, if you make them believe in an emotionally and mentally sick, insecure, hungry for attention and a brutal god???
  • Re: The Love of God
     Reply #9 - September 04, 2009, 11:40 AM

    You say that as though everyone dips into the good book before deciding what to do. I think we, as people, have moved on a lot, and a long time ago from 7th century books - in general anyway, there will always be some nutters.

    Not sure by who you mean as "we" - does this include those who live in 'Islamic ghettos' such as parts of Ilford, Oldham, Bradford, Ilford etc or those in the extreme (and becoming extremer) parts of the Islamic world?

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  • Re: The Love of God
     Reply #10 - September 04, 2009, 12:01 PM

    The Love of God is NOT a substitute for Parental Guidance for kids.

    Parents should do their job and teach them UNIVERSAL values of humanity, respect, tolerance, and kindness rather than religious brainwashing and breeding ignorants.

    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: The Love of God
     Reply #11 - September 04, 2009, 01:18 PM

    Such problems are an inherent part of life.

    I've yet to read any study about severe bouts of depression being cured by prayer. You can be religious and still be depressed. Hell, I was always depressed as a Muslim. Because The verses about Hell are so numerous I kept watching my every move not wanting to get anything Islamically wrong.

    If one has a severe bout of depression I suggest visiting a psychiatrist who will probably initiate cognitive behavioural therapy. If that does not work then drugs should be used but they're no substitute to proper counselling sessions that will hopefully be able to rid one of the depressive episodes.
  • Re: The Love of God
     Reply #12 - September 04, 2009, 02:53 PM

    Not sure by who you mean as "we" - does this include those who live in 'Islamic ghettos' such as parts of Ilford, Oldham, Bradford, Ilford etc or those in the extreme (and becoming extremer) parts of the Islamic world?



    I mean 'we' as in the human race, in general.

    Ha Ha.
  • Re: The Love of God
     Reply #13 - September 04, 2009, 04:32 PM

    You say that as though everyone dips into the good book before deciding what to do. I think we, as people, have moved on a lot, and a long time ago from 7th century books - in general anyway, there will always be some nutters.

    I mean 'we' as in the human race, in general.

    But the Islamic World is being left behind and it's not just a collection of 'nutters' - dont you feel that way?

    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: The Love of God
     Reply #14 - September 04, 2009, 06:21 PM

    I was speaking with my ex wife, yesterday about my youngest daughter. Since our divorce Humble, my daughter has been going through bouts of depression over my having moved to Washington state, although I visit during the summer, and call almost everyday. After getting off the phone with them I thought about something someone posted on one of my posts when I mentioned something about disciplining my daughter. I doubt it was meant to be disrespectful or anything, but it caused a thought to come to mind. Do children who are raised in a religious home fare better than children who are raised in a home that is Atheist, or follows no specific religious faith?


    It wasn't disrespectful.  I said it because I am fairly sure that you would not discipline your daughter the way that it is claimed the god of Islam will 'discipline' us.  I meant that you are probably kinder than that, and that it was a poor comparison in light of the conversation we were having.  Most parents would not do such things to their own children, so why speak of god and love when your books say that he will do such things to us for not believing in him.  There is little doubt in my mind that a child raised with 'discipline' similar to the tortures of hell would be very, very messed up as an adult - if he or she even made it that far.  We have seen how abused children have to overcome so much and the risks they face for abusing their own families.  But it doesn't sound like you would do such things to your daughter as the god of Islam will do to kufar, mushrikeen, and sinning Muslims. 

    As for children, I think it depends on the children and the parents and the values imparted.  I have friends raised in very traditional, Islamic homes who are accepting of everyone, who are kind to everyone.  But I have also seen, unfortunately and I think you know this is true if you are familiar with the Salafi scene especially, children of converts who are raised in such a way by parents that they end up rebelling against Islam and resenting their parents so much. 

    It is clear she is missing you and that is normal.  You just have to be there for her and work with her mom to provide her with what she needs, and if that is counseling with a therapist, go for it.  I know a lot of Muslims, especially converts it seems, are a afraid of therapy, as if it is going against Islam.  But you can find a counselor who is respectful and will work with your values regarding teens and can help her. I don't recommend a Muslim counselor.  They are notoriously loose lipped and I have seen so many unqualified people calling themselves "Muslim counselor" who have ruined people's minds, hearts and lives. 

    [this space for rent]
  • Re: The Love of God
     Reply #15 - September 04, 2009, 07:26 PM

    Although I cant speak as a parent, I've noticed from my own friends that children are like springs. Theres only so far you can push them before they crack and revolt. This will one day be Islam's undoing. I can see it happening around me.

    Maliki yawm ul LULZ
  • Re: The Love of God
     Reply #16 - September 04, 2009, 07:31 PM

    There are the pro's and cons. ButI find religious kids grow up thinking they are better than others. They have been blessed by god. They have not been misled like the others, they are not on the wrong path. They have a special place in god's heart.

    You give precedence to people of your faith. You feel for those in the ummah if something bad should happen but turn a blind eye to those outside of it. You call people by names such as infidels, kuffar, cow-worshippers which demeans a significant portion of humanity.

    The religious do tend to encourage more morals than the irreligious. But sometimes those morals can lead to extremes such as honor killings.

    In the long run it can be more unhealthy depending on the level of religious indoctrination.


    I agree with everything you said. However, I would like to discuss the isseu of morality in a different way.

    Yes, all religions try to inforce different levels of marality. But the question is, what is the result? Are religious people more moral people compared to non-religious or the secular ones?

    All main stream religions, including Islam and Christianity, have tried to establish this as a standard that the believers have morality and nonbelieveres are without any moral standards. Even US film industry has tried to spread this notion that nonbelievers are immoral people.

    The truth is that people with secular ideology have been demonstrating higher levels or morality. Nonbelievers (infidels, like us) commit any immoral act only due to a circumstantial need. We live a simpler life, without involving religious complication. Our way of life is closer to the way nature intended it to be.

    On the other hand religious people live complicated lives. Religion brings more stress. That stress leads them to do do immoral acts in the name of religion. I do not have to go in details of the immoral destructions religions have caused in last 2000 years.

    Religious people people also commit immoral acts as a way of outlet. When small pleasures are barred by religions, religious people resort to molesting children in churches and mosques. (And many other things, which I don't have to list here).

    Religious people carry more hate inside them compared to nonreligious liberal people.
  • Re: The Love of God
     Reply #17 - September 05, 2009, 07:23 AM

    When I said 'the religious do tend to encourage more morals than the irreligious.' it doesn't mean that they actually end up being better people in the grand scheme of things.

    Statistics show that more atheistic nations have less crime, give more global charity and are at peace with one another than religious countries.

    However on the ground level say in your neighbourhood or school you find children from religious homes have more respect and discipline than the non-religious.

    The irreligious are moral because they are essentially good people giving, sharing because they want to, not because they seek some eternal afterlife or fear some eternal hell. So in essence that is better.   

    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: The Love of God
     Reply #18 - September 05, 2009, 09:00 AM

    Statistics show that more atheistic nations have less crime, give more global charity and are at peace with one another than religious countries.

    This would be quite powerful - have you got a link to this data?

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