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 Topic: Need Help to counter arguement regards women and islam

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  • Need Help to counter arguement regards women and islam
     OP - January 10, 2010, 05:03 AM

    Im invovled in a arguement on another site ( non religious ) regards Islam and its attitude to women. I sent him some links regarding certain current day occurences involving horrific violence on women, his retort is ''this happens in many cultures , show me where Islam advocates this''. Has any one got any links I could read to counter this? I think Islame touched on it in one of his videos that it explains how to beat your wife.
    I also saw the one that a women in an interview quotes regards in what manner you are permitted to have sex with very young girls.( something about the thighs being ok or something like that )
    Could someone link me to the actual  hadiths or writings that deal with this because I know he is going to shoot back , ''show me where it says that!!??'' and I would like to be able to respond factually.
    cheers

    According to the polls only 1.6 % of Americans are athiests. So what gives you the right to call the other 80% morons?'
  • Re: Need Help to counter arguement regards women and islam
     Reply #1 - January 10, 2010, 06:00 AM

    Here are two:

    Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
    Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion." - Sahih Bukhari 1:6:301

    Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri
    The Prophet said, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said, "Yes." He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind." - Sahih Bukhari 3:48:826

    "It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Muhammad Ali
  • Re: Need Help to counter arguement regards women and islam
     Reply #2 - January 10, 2010, 06:34 AM

    Here are two:

    Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
    Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion." - Sahih Bukhari 1:6:301

    Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri
    The Prophet said, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said, "Yes." He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind." - Sahih Bukhari 3:48:826


    About the one talking about women in hell, I saw a female convert to Islam on a video trying to defend this pathetic hadith. She said in a desperate tone "But but but the prophet peace be upon him was JUST JOKING, he was just being friendly and funny to the women" HOW LOW can some apologetics go.

    Whats funny is that its not like the prophet said this one time only. He mentioned that most women being dumb in intellect and going to hell on multiple occasions. So no he was not joking finmad

    "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
    ~Sir Richard Francis Burton

    "I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
    ~RIBS
  • Re: Need Help to counter arguement regards women and islam
     Reply #3 - January 10, 2010, 07:28 AM

    About the one talking about women in hell, I saw a female convert to Islam on a video trying to defend this pathetic hadith. She said in a desperate tone "But but but the prophet peace be upon him was JUST JOKING, he was just being friendly and funny to the women" HOW LOW can some apologetics go.

    Whats funny is that its not like the prophet said this one time only. He mentioned that most women being dumb in intellect and going to hell on multiple occasions. So no he was not joking finmad


    The question I would ask back is why isn't it noted, along with the hadith, the tone of voice, mannerisms or the nature in which Muhammad said it?

    Also, many hadiths said that Muhammad never joked around, he was very serious - how does she weigh up her view with the view held by scholars?

    "It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Muhammad Ali
  • Re: Need Help to counter arguement regards women and islam
     Reply #4 - January 10, 2010, 01:39 PM

    Besides what kaiwai mentioned, you could always use the good ol' 4:34.  Wink

    "In every time and culture there are pressures to conform to the prevailing prejudices. But there are also, in every place and epoch, those who value the truth; who record the evidence faithfully. Future generations are in their debt." -Carl Sagan

  • Re: Need Help to counter arguement regards women and islam
     Reply #5 - January 10, 2010, 01:52 PM

    Kaffir Latte here's a clip of scriptural references to women in Islam. The rest can be found here: http://sites.google.com/site/islamicscripturesunveiled/Home/woman-subdued

    ---
    Women are essentially the possession of their men-folk. They are to honour and obey their husbands without questions even prostrating before them as Muhammad suggests.

    SAD 11:2135 Muhammad said "If I were to command anyone to make prostration before another I would command women to prostrate themselves before their husbands, because of the special right over them given to husbands by Allah."

    The Qur'an states that the wife is analogous to the tilled earth of her husband, making her accessible for him to use whenever and however he desires. And if he can cope, he may marry up to four at the same time.
    Qur'an 2:223 Your wives are as a tilth (tilled earth) unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will.

    Qur'an 4:3 Marry of the women, who seem good to you, two, three or four
     
    If four is not enough then concubines, females captured in battle are acceptable.
    SB 59:524 From the captives of Hunayn, Allah's Messenger gave Ali a slave girl called Baytab and he gave Uthman a slave girl called Zaynab and Umar another.
     
    If a husband wishes to accuse his wives of a misdeed or transgression, even though he has no witnesses, he has the power to declare four times that the accusation is true. The wife does have the option to declare four times that he is telling a lie. However a wife has no right to make an accusation against her hsband and give her testimony four times.
    Qur'an 24:6 Those who accuse their wives and have no witnesses except themselves, the evidence of one of these should be taken four times, bearing Allah to witness that he is most surely of the truthful ones.
    Qur'an 24:8 But it would avert the punishment from the wife, if she bears witness four times (with an oath) By Allah, that (her husband) is telling a lie.

    According to Muhammad most women are destined for Hell. His reasons are outlined in the following hadith:
    SM 1:142 Muhammad said "O womenfolk, you should ask for forgiveness for I saw you in bulk amongst the dwellers of Hell." A wise lady said: "Why is it, Allah's Apostle, that women comprise the bulk of the inhabitants of Hell?" The Prophet observed: "You curse too much and are ungrateful to your husbands. You lack commonsense, fail in religion and rob wisdom of the wise."
     
    SB 62:124 Muhammad said "I stood at the gate of the Fire and saw that the majority of those who entered it were women."
     
    For a woman to get into paradise she must please her husband. Her eternal existence in the afterlife is all dependant on the whims and fancies of her husband.
    Al Tirmidhi & Ibn Majah - The Prophet said, If a woman dies while her husband was pleased with her, she will enter paradise.

    If a woman is unwilling to please her husband when required, then she will be cursed all night by angels.
    SB 7:121 Muhammad said "If a man invites his wife to sleep with him and she refuses to come to him, then the angels send their curses on her till morning."
     
    In many strict Islamic societies, women are forbidden from entering mosques for prayers. In those where the regulation is relaxed, they are either provided with another room or are partitioned behind a screen. Muhammad said it was best for a woman to pray in her own room which in most likelyhood gave rise to this stipulation.
    SAD 204:570 Muhammad said "Your (Aisha) prayer in your private room is better than your prayer in other rooms of your house, and your prayer in other rooms of your house is better than your prayer in the halls of your house, and your prayer in the halls of your house is better than your prayer in your community's mosque."
     
    During the month of Ramadan when Muslims are expected to fast, a woman must first acquire permission from her husband. This ruling is to ensure that the wife is sufficiently able to see to his needs should she fast. If he determines that she cannot meet her marital obligations if fasting, then he has the right to prevent it. It should also be noted that Muhammad said women fail in religion because they cannot always fast in the holy month. Failing in religion opens up the gates of Hell for them.
    SAD 13:2452 Muhammad said "A woman should not fast except with the permission of her husband."
     
    A woman should also not leave her house without her husband's permission. A hadith retelling the story of a returning jihadi about to kill his wife because she stepped outside in fear of a snake is applicable.
    SM 26:5557 - ...a man returned home and found his wife standing outside. He bent towards her with a spear in order to stab her. She said: Keep your spear away and enter the house to see that which has made me come out.
     
    The beating of women by their husbands or fathers is legal under sharia law. Both Allah and Muhammad recommended the beating of women.
    Qur'an 4:34 Good women are obedient. As for women from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and beat them.
     
    Al-Tabari Vol.9  - They (women) should not commit any open indecency. If they do, then God permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them.
     
    SAD 11:2141 - Women have become emboldened toward their husbands, he (the Prophet) gave permission to beat them. Then many women complained against their husbands. So the Apostle said: "They (the women) are not the best among you."
     
    SM 9:3506 - Allah's Messenger said: They are around me as you see, asking for extra money. Abu Bakr then got up went to 'A'isha and slapped her on the neck, and 'Umar stood up before Hafsa and slapped her.
     
    Muhammad struck, Aisha, in the chest one evening when she left the house without his permission. Aisha narrates,
    SM 4:2127 "He struck me on the chest which caused me pain."
     
    The beating of a wife is strictly the husband's business. Muhammad did state that it was of no concern of anyone else, the woman should not complain but remain with her husband.
    SAD 11:2142 The Prophet said: 'A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife.'
     
    SB 72:715 A woman came to Muhammad and begged her to stop her husband from beating her. Her skin was badly bruised and described as being greener than the green garment she was wearing. Muhammad did not admonish her husband, but instead ordered her to return to him and submit to his desires.
     
    If you marry a woman and find out she is pregnant she must be beaten after giving birth. The child will become the slave of the husband with no option for the mother ot biological father to gain custody.
     
    SAD 11:2126 - A man from the Ansar said: I married a virgin woman in her veil. When I entered upon her, I found she was already pregnant. The Prophet said: She will get the dowry returned, for you made her vagina lawful to you. The child will be your slave. When she has begotten, flog her.
     
    A woman cannot marry herself nor can a mother or any female approve the marriage for another female. A woman must have a wali (male guardian) for the marriage to be permissible. In the event that such a male relative is not available the Islamic ruler, sharia judge or imam will act as the guardian required to approve the marriage.
    SAD 11:2078 The Apostle of Allah said: The marriage of a woman who marries without the consent of her wali (male guardians) is void. The sultan (man in authority) is the guardian of one who has none. If there is cohabitation, she gets her dower for the intercourse her husband has had.

    Sunan Ibn Majah The Prophet said: A woman may not give another woman in marriage, nor may a woman give herself (independently) in marriage.

    Two witnesses must also be present for the marriage to be valid. These must be Muslim and of course, male. 

    A woman's worth is half that of a man, her intelligence and religion is deficient, she is compared to a devil and she is unsuitable for leadership roles. Muhammad was never an advocate of equality between the sexes as is evident from the following:
    Qur'an 4:34 Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the man to excel the woman.
     
    Qur'an 2:28 And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree of advantage over them.
     
    SB 6:301 Muhammad said "I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you (women). A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you."
     
    Inheritance laws according to Allah provides twice as much to males as it does to females.
    Qur'an 4:11 Allah directs you as regards Inheritance: to the male, a portion equal to that of two females. These are settled portions ordained by Allah.

    ..........

    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Need Help to counter arguement regards women and islam
     Reply #6 - January 10, 2010, 05:01 PM

    The question I would ask back is why isn't it noted, along with the hadith, the tone of voice, mannerisms or the nature in which Muhammad said it?

    Also, many hadiths said that Muhammad never joked around, he was very serious - how does she weigh up her view with the view held by scholars?


    Exactly, this is what I was told as a Muslim as well. Also, humour and laughter is mukruh or haraam in Islam. Muhammad once said that Laughter is a sickness in the heart.

    "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
    ~Sir Richard Francis Burton

    "I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
    ~RIBS
  • Re: Need Help to counter arguement regards women and islam
     Reply #7 - January 11, 2010, 01:46 AM

    Thank you for those. I think just the one should be enough to shut him up , this one
    Quote
    SAD 11:2126 - A man from the Ansar said: I married a virgin woman in her veil. When I entered upon her, I found she was already pregnant. The Prophet said: She will get the dowry returned, for you made her vagina lawful to you. The child will be your slave. When she has begotten, flog her.


    whatever I say he is just going to obfuscate but at least I will have demonstrated his claim that the Quran doesnt advocate beatings of women.
    again thank you

    According to the polls only 1.6 % of Americans are athiests. So what gives you the right to call the other 80% morons?'
  • Re: Need Help to counter arguement regards women and islam
     Reply #8 - January 11, 2010, 10:54 AM

    unless i am mistaken can you confirm there is no such thing as shariah law, as they have been constructed by saudi clerics using the weak hadith too?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Need Help to counter arguement regards women and islam
     Reply #9 - January 11, 2010, 12:38 PM

    a.ghazali you are the author of this site?

    http://sites.google.com/site/islamicscripturesunveiled/Home/
  • Re: Need Help to counter arguement regards women and islam
     Reply #10 - January 11, 2010, 12:57 PM

    yep, he is..

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Need Help to counter arguement regards women and islam
     Reply #11 - January 11, 2010, 01:22 PM

     Afro

    Fantastic work!
  • Re: Need Help to counter arguement regards women and islam
     Reply #12 - January 12, 2010, 09:07 AM

    "It is not permissible for a human being to prostrate to another human being. Were it permissible for a human being to prostrate to another human being, I would have commanded the woman to prostrate to her husband because of his great right upon her. By the One in Whose hand is my soul, if he (the husband) had, from his feet to the top of his head, an ulcer oozing blood and pus, and she came to lick it off for him, she would not have fulfilled his right."

    (Recorded in Ahmad and al-Nasa'i, verified as authentic by al-Albani in Sahih al-Jami' no.7725)

      ohmy

    If you're so devout, how come I am not dead?
  • Re: Need Help to counter arguement regards women and islam
     Reply #13 - January 15, 2010, 04:22 AM

    Just thought Id report back on the debate and it was just as I thought. He would constantly add to the thread usually twice but sometimes 3 or 4 times  a day   verbose and obnoxious with it. I answered him that i had found some references that seem to indicate Islam does in fact advocate the subdjucation of women. 
    Who is telling you this nonsense ?? he asks So i hit him with some of the best research the CEMB has to offer  Smiley

    Apart from a pathetic ' these are lies !!'   I havnt heard from him in 3 days which is akin to not having seen your annoying uncle for 12 months.  Ahhh , fundie god botherers and facts ,  such akward bedfellows  Wink

    My gratitude for arming me with knowledgeeveryone.   Ghazali  , some stunning contribution there. Afro Afro

    Tarc , Im so annoyed I didnt see your post before answering him , I could have made him realise he is full of shit and make him vomit at the same time  Cheesy Cheesy
    Where does that come from ?  Is it Hadith or from the quraan itself ?

    According to the polls only 1.6 % of Americans are athiests. So what gives you the right to call the other 80% morons?'
  • Re: Need Help to counter arguement regards women and islam
     Reply #14 - January 15, 2010, 05:06 AM

    Afro

    Fantastic work!


    Thanks BD

    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Need Help to counter arguement regards women and islam
     Reply #15 - January 15, 2010, 07:19 AM

    ..... "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion." ....,,



    this is one of the silliest and most hilarious hadeaths of all times, why?

    1) the judgment day is not due yet, so how TF Mo saw who is in hell when there is no one in he'll nor in heaven yet?

    2) is hell so small that when he peeked inside he could see the whole residents? What if only the 10 or 20 persons near the door are women and the rest of the 100s of billions are men?

    3) the deficiency in Intelegence and religion is so stupid. First he tells women they can not testify unless there are 2 of them, then he tells them don't fast when mestruating..... Then later he says, you are deficient in intelegence and religion because of a rule he made up? I mean I would understand it if all female babies were born with a tiny yellow sticker on their butt that says: "This product is not suitable for testamony unless supported with another female. Also avoid fasting when menstruating or else the garantee will be void" .... Or something like that!

    ...
  • Re: Need Help to counter arguement regards women and islam
     Reply #16 - January 15, 2010, 08:27 AM

    1) Obviously Muhammad could see into the future. That's the way he spoke. On the day of judgement he will be by Allah's side, seeing the 2 groups who will come there.

    2) Muhammad had a bird's eye view of heaven & hell. He thought there were only a few thousand people in the world.

    3) Maybe such concepts as women fasting or their testimony were existing stipulations in pre-Islamic times and thus ingrained in the consciousness of the women. So they had no problem accepting they were inferior because they were already conditioned.

    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Need Help to counter arguement regards women and islam
     Reply #17 - January 15, 2010, 08:35 AM

    1) Obviously Muhammad could see into the future. That's the way he spoke. On the day of judgement he will be by Allah's side, seeing the 2 groups who will come there.

    2) Muhammad had a bird's eye view of heaven & hell. He thought there were only a few thousand people in the world.

    3) Maybe such concepts as women fasting or their testimony were existing stipulations in pre-Islamic times and thus ingrained in the consciousness of the women. So they had no problem accepting they were inferior because they were already conditioned.



    Point 1. Yupp that's what I thought. Which is weird, time has already been stamped that is. Which goes well with Qadr. The future is already sealed. It does not matter what you do. Not sure how this idea works with modern day physics though.

    Point 2. Very good point. But I would have to read more to contribute. But solid  Afro

    Point 3. This is were it gets interesting. Since Jews and Christians are demonized to the extent that we as ex-muslims have most likely not grown up amongst them and thus not really learned their religion, we know little of which parts that have been taken outright from their respective religions. Or maybe it's just me. In that case, I need to know if this mentality came from Judaism and/or Christiantiy. I have a hard time believing it was the pagan arabs since they seemed to be the most liberal of the bunch.
  • Re: Need Help to counter arguement regards women and islam
     Reply #18 - January 15, 2010, 09:01 AM

    Point 2. From the following 2 hadiths Muhammad predicted that 70,000 people will be following him to heaven. With a few others following other prophets. He obviously thought that would have been quite a baffling amount to the nomads of desert. I don't think he catered for the 1.3 billion Muslims around now, let alone the billions already dead waiting in their graves.


    Sahih Bukhari 71:606: Allah's Apostle said, ?Nations were displayed before me; one or two prophets would pass by along with a few followers. Then a big crowd of people passed in front of me and I asked, ?Who are they??? It was said, ?It is Moses and his followers?. It was said to me, ?Look at the horizon. Behold!? There was a multitude of people filling the horizon. Then it was said to me, ?Look there and there about the stretching sky! Behold!? There was a multitude filling the horizon. It was said to me, ?This is your nation out of whom seventy thousand shall enter Paradise.? .....

    Sahih Muslim 39:6710 - Allah's Messenger said: The earth would turn to be one single bread on the Day of Resurrection and the Almighty would turn it in His hand as one of you turns a loaf while on a journey. It would be a feast arranged in the honour of the people of Paradise. Their seasoning would be Ox and fish from whose excessive livers seventy thousand people would be able to eat.


    Point 3. Remember the whole concept of sacred months and fasting during them was taken from the Pagans. The pagans must have had regulations regarding women during their periods in such harsh environments. Remenber they did not have the comforts or medication that exists today so it must have been a toll on them to fast throughout the day. Hence exceptions from fasting is logical. But to use that as a pretext for being hellbound is quite evil.

    I'm not too sure what a woman's testimony was worth in the Judaeo Christian community of the time, but most likely not worth much. As according to the New Testament a woman was not to speak in public nor teach and should she have any quetions ask them at home from her husband.

    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Need Help to counter arguement regards women and islam
     Reply #19 - January 15, 2010, 09:07 AM

    this is one of the silliest and most hilarious hadeaths of all times, why?

    1) the judgment day is not due yet, so how TF Mo saw who is in hell when there is no one in he'll nor in heaven yet?

    2) is hell so small that when he peeked inside he could see the whole residents? What if only the 10 or 20 persons near the door are women and the rest of the 100s of billions are men?

    3) the deficiency in Intelegence and religion is so stupid. First he tells women they can not testify unless there are 2 of them, then he tells them don't fast when mestruating..... Then later he says, you are deficient in intelegence and religion because of a rule he made up? I mean I would understand it if all female babies were born with a tiny yellow sticker on their butt that says: "This product is not suitable for testamony unless supported with another female. Also avoid fasting when menstruating or else the garantee will be void" .... Or something like that!


    And when faced with such statements a Muslim will always fall back on the tried and true:

     False hadith.

    "It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Muhammad Ali
  • Re: Need Help to counter arguement regards women and islam
     Reply #20 - January 15, 2010, 09:33 AM


    Tarc , Im so annoyed I didnt see your post before answering him , I could have made him realise he is full of shit and make him vomit at the same time  Cheesy Cheesy
    Where does that come from ?  Is it Hadith or from the quraan itself ?


    Aw man you should have used the hadeeth I found. It's one of the most disgusting hadeeth ever. Someone actually brought it up in a muslim forum in support of the "greatness" of husband and his rights. Believe it or not, muslims on that forum didn't find anything disgusting in that hadeeth. They were like ofcourse it's not to be taken literally. I mentioned the sources below it, I don't know if its a bukhaari or what. I found it online. I actually read that hadeeth in Urdu somewhere and then found the same one online in English.

    If you're so devout, how come I am not dead?
  • Re: Need Help to counter arguement regards women and islam
     Reply #21 - January 17, 2010, 12:15 AM

    Regarding Muhammed not having a sense of humor, (posted up thread)I just heard a lecture by Hamza Yusuf - he said something like this:

    "There are people who say 'religion was never founded by one who has a sense of humor' to them I say, you don't know our prophet.  He had a great sense of humor".

    Then Hamza told some story about a friend of Mo's who always played the fool and Mo would laugh at him.

    So I guess according to Hamza, Mo was a riot a minute but to the majority, he was a serious guy.

    You do not need the Bible to justify love, but no better tool has been invented to justify hate. Richard A. Weatherwax

    Remember, Jesus would rather constantly shame gays than let orphans have a family.  Steven Colbert
  • Re: Need Help to counter arguement regards women and islam
     Reply #22 - January 17, 2010, 03:07 AM

    I googled prophet jokes and the first page that came up had this:

    Quote
    Holy Prophet Muhammed (saw) smiled often and would make jokes with members of his community. For example, An old woman came to our Holy Prophet Muhammed (saw) and said: "O Messenger of Allah, pray to Allah (Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala) that I will enter Paradise." Holy Prophet Muhammed (saw) said jokingly, "O Mother of so-and-so, no old women will enter Paradise." The old woman went away crying, after hearing from Holy Prophet Muhammed (saw). Then Holy Prophet Muhammed (saw) sent one of his companions to tell her that, she will enter Paradise by becoming a young lady, because the Paradise is for only young people.


    But to make sure you don't laugh to much, they also had this right under:

    Quote
    Holy Prophet Muhammed (saw) said: "Do not laugh too much, for laughing too much deadens the heart." At another place, Holy Prophet Muhammed (saw) said: "If you knew what I know, you would laugh little and weep much."


    Shia Imam:

    Quote
    Imam Jafar as Sadiq (AS) said: Avoid incorrect jokes and humors, as it is the cause of enmity and grudge. Also Imam Jafar as Sadiq (AS) said: The believers laughter should be only a smile. At another place Imam Jafar as Sadiq (AS) said: Beware of joking, because it causes rancor and drives into malice. Joking is the lesser revilement.

  • Re: Need Help to counter arguement regards women and islam
     Reply #23 - January 18, 2010, 05:05 PM

    Quote
    Holy Prophet Muhammed (saw) smiled often and would make jokes with members of his community. For example, An old woman came to our Holy Prophet Muhammed (saw) and said: "O Messenger of Allah, pray to Allah (Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala) that I will enter Paradise." Holy Prophet Muhammed (saw) said jokingly, "O Mother of so-and-so, no old women will enter Paradise." The old woman went away crying, after hearing from Holy Prophet Muhammed (saw). Then Holy Prophet Muhammed (saw) sent one of his companions to tell her that, she will enter Paradise by becoming a young lady, because the Paradise is for only young people.


    So he let her cry for a night over his "joke"? That's messed up!

    If you're so devout, how come I am not dead?
  • Re: Need Help to counter arguement regards women and islam
     Reply #24 - January 18, 2010, 05:11 PM

    The Hadith about laughing little and weeping more is kind of ironic because he (mo) knew Islam was bullshit so I suppose if they all knew they were following an imposter they would weep

    Take the Pakman challenge and convince me there is a God and Mo was not a murdering, power hungry sex maniac.
  • Re: Need Help to counter arguement regards women and islam
     Reply #25 - January 18, 2010, 05:17 PM

    Quote
    "Do not laugh too much, for laughing too much deadens the heart."

    Since when?!
  • Re: Need Help to counter arguement regards women and islam
     Reply #26 - January 18, 2010, 07:13 PM

    So he let her cry for a night over his "joke"? That's messed up!


    hey he's no Chris Rock but at least he tries. I think he might have changed his mind, imagine, if he was actually serious? That no women go to heaven.
  • Re: Need Help to counter arguement regards women and islam
     Reply #27 - January 18, 2010, 08:18 PM

    Since when?!


    Typical upside down world of Islam. Freedom is Slavery, War is Peace, Ignorance is Strength.

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Need Help to counter arguement regards women and islam
     Reply #28 - January 18, 2010, 08:34 PM

    Takbir!
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