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 Topic: Quick history on Judaism and Christianity?

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  • Quick history on Judaism and Christianity?
     OP - December 29, 2009, 06:55 PM
    I need to know the evolution of how Judaism eventually evolved into Christianity. Anyone help me out please? I'm debating someone, and he threw this at me:

    Quote
    Ok well i did a research on comparing religions... All religions ...seem to have no proof of existance .. like they were built on superficial foundations...And the most accepted christianity and islam both have no or negligiable disagreement till Ibrahim (A) and his line..But the major diference comes when ismail and israel both went to diff lands... See More.. Ismail (A) the reason for arab muslims...and israel for the muslims there..Its when Jesus pbuh came and people corrupted his word..The last gospel of judas was burnt by the church fathers which is strictly against jesus being god or getting crucified..this was later recovered in egypt after the declarement of christianity as the official religion in rome by constantine with the incomplete bible...And the Bible itself has so many verses that go with what islam says..i have em if u want em....And later Muhammad saw came and thru jibreel(A) he told every1 that Jesus was a messenger and that people corrupted his word...Doesnt that make sense brother??,,,Just try to put everything on the canvas and the picture will show itself to u ..Its not rocket science !


    I already have a response ready for him, but I wanted to refresh a bit on my knowledge of how the Abrahamic religions transformed throughout time.

    Thanks
    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Re: Quick history on Judaism and Christianity?
     Reply #1 - December 29, 2009, 06:58 PM
    What in particular do you need to know Tommy?
  • Re: Quick history on Judaism and Christianity?
     Reply #2 - December 29, 2009, 07:00 PM
    A general overview of how Judaism transformed to Christianity.

    EDIT: The actual history, not what Christians and Muslims believe.
    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Re: Quick history on Judaism and Christianity?
     Reply #3 - December 29, 2009, 07:15 PM
    There are a few errors in your friends comments. The branch between Islam and Christianity is through the two sons of Abraham. According to Islam, Abraham had a wife Hajra/Hagar. When Abraham was very elderly (over 80), God asnwered his prayers for a son - Ismail/Ishmael. The story then proceeds to the sacrifice etc. According to the Old Testamant, Hagar was not the wife of Abraham, but his slave. This is where the major difference arises. Genesis talks about his "proper"wife being Sarah. She bore him a son - Isaac/Ishaq when Abraham was over 90 years old. The confusion lies in Genesis, where Abraham is ordered by God to sacrifice his ONLY son. Thus, Muslims believe that Ismail was his only son, and Jews/Christians believe that Isaac was his only son.

    Isaac has a direct line of descndents all the way down to Moses. Ismail however, has descendents down to Mohammed (he settled in Arabia). In simplistic terms, the Jews arose from Isaac, and the Muslims from Ismail.

    When you think about the where Islam actually came from it becomes a little more difficult. The arabs during the time of Mohammed were mainly Jews, Christians, Zorastians or Pagans. Some Jews and Christians accepted the message and became Muslims.
  • Re: Quick history on Judaism and Christianity?
     Reply #4 - December 29, 2009, 07:17 PM
    From my knowledge Judaism emerged as the first monotheistic religion with Abraham in Canaan (what is known today as Palestine/Israel).  By the time Jesus came along the original religion of Abraham had been distorted by time and those who spoke for the Jewish community that he felt it was time for a re-evaluation of the original tenets of the faith and this is how Christianity was born, not by Jesus himself who was only seeking to reform Judaism and take it back to it's original meaning but by the Apostles who saw him as God incarnate (imo).
    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: Quick history on Judaism and Christianity?
     Reply #5 - December 29, 2009, 07:18 PM
    Tommy I can't help you with that, but what do you think of this:

    If Allah is the God of Jews and Christians then why is his name not mentioned in the Bible? And I don't mean an Arabic translation of the Bible.

    Allah says Jesus revealed the Injil, the Gospel. But the New Testament is a collection of 4 Gospels. The earliest written 70 years after Jesus by somebody that never met Jesus. IE Jesus never wrote anything, and nothing was written during his time. There is no such scripture.

    Allah says the texts were corrupted, does not say how, the contradictions between Quranic and Biblical stories is not enough proof, it's never proven how text was corrupted. Or when. By whom. Secondly, do Christians and Jews go to heaven? If not, why? If they go to hell, it means Allah let the texts get corrupted then made up his mind about Islam not getting corrupted and thus punishing Christians and Jews for all eternity because a group of people corrupted the Bible and the Torah.

    Verily, those who [despite all evidence] are bent on denying the truth - [be they] from among the followers of earlier revelation or from among those who ascribe divinity to aught beside God - will find themselves in the fire of hell, therein to abide: they are the worst of all creatures. S. 98:6 Asad

    Why is Joseph, husband of Mary never mentioned?

    EDIT:
    I removed all links to material. I haven't gone through the material myself so I can't really say whether it can help you or not. I can still post them if you want me to. I did a quick Google search and picked out the stuff that might help you.
  • Re: Quick history on Judaism and Christianity?
     Reply #6 - December 29, 2009, 08:27 PM
    Judaism started (and was recorded) as a work in progress - and ideas were developed throughout the Old Testament - Yahweh started as one of many gods - similar to a tribal totem. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totem .
    Judaism was a particularly unpleasant cult version (killing apostates etc.)

    The concept of Yahweh developed (powers, no other gods etc.)- borrowing heavily from ideas in Zoroastrianism during the Jews' stay in Babylon - and later introduced concepts such as heaven.  The concept of hell wasn't developed until quite late and was something used by Jesus frequently.

    As for Jesus - think Osama bin Laden:
    a religious fanatic/cult leader who hated the filthy infidels/goyem (US/Rome) for defiling the holy land (Saudi/Israel), hated the home grown elite for their hypocrisy in siding with the infidels and wanted to rid his holy land of both of them.
    He was seen as the Messiah by his followers - based on ideas from Jewish scripture.
    Once he was killed before bringing about this Endloesung, the concept of what he was delivering the people had to be modified by people who had invested too much time and effort into following him to allow themselves believe he might not be the Messiah - "ahh - maybe he meant delivering the promised land in a figurative sense..."

    So basically Christianity started as a Jewish heresy - imagine if people started to claim Osama bin Laden as the Mahdi.
  • Re: Quick history on Judaism and Christianity?
     Reply #7 - December 29, 2009, 08:42 PM
    Judaism* evolved over many centuries from tribal polytheism, which included magic, to strict monotheism (instead of magic, then, miracles are enacted by holy people through god...). It may also have been a proselytizing religion at one point, but in any case it wasn't at the time of Jesus.

    In the oppressive, slave-based Roman society, the early Christians, although Jewish, were proto-communists. Jesus was a revolutionary martyr who inspired Christianity, but Christianity was appropriated by the Roman state, foregoing Christianity's revolutionary message. Whence the deification of Jesus as a compromise of monotheism with paganism. (This gave western philosophy the man-god dialectic.)

    *It is possible that Judaism has its origin in a tribal dispute/split in the Middle East, or even North Africa. But that is speculation that might go on forever.
    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Quick history on Judaism and Christianity?
     Reply #8 - December 29, 2009, 09:22 PM
    Quote from: hupla on December 29, 2009, 08:27 PM

    As for Jesus - think Osama bin Laden:
    a religious fanatic/cult leader who hated the filthy infidels/goyem (US/Rome) for defiling the holy land (Saudi/Israel), hated the home grown elite for their hypocrisy in siding with the infidels and wanted to rid his holy land of both of them.
    He was seen as the Messiah by his followers - based on ideas from Jewish scripture.



    Quite plausible that he was a political agitator, but he definitely was no Osama bin Laden.  He might have not liked the Romans (who occupied his land) but did not hate the 'filthy infidels' either, his message was actually quite universal.  He is reputed to have despised the high priests because of this reason.  If one were to read the parable of the good samaritan and other stories attributed to him, it may easily be seen.
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Quick history on Judaism and Christianity?
     Reply #9 - December 29, 2009, 09:26 PM
    Yeah - I'd only care for the comparison with Osama if Jesus activated widespread killings of innocents in the name of his cause. That isn't the case, so its not a good comparison.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Quick history on Judaism and Christianity?
     Reply #10 - December 29, 2009, 09:33 PM
    A couple of questions I have regarding Jesus.

    Did he call himself a Prophet?

    Did he claim to receive Divine revelations from God?

    And would that God be Yahweh?
  • Re: Quick history on Judaism and Christianity?
     Reply #11 - December 29, 2009, 10:06 PM
    Hey guys thanks for your replies. I'm in a very busy schedule so I don't have time to check everyone's replies thoroughly to respond to them properly. I will get back to you guys later tonight. Thanks again for the replies.
    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Re: Quick history on Judaism and Christianity?
     Reply #12 - December 30, 2009, 12:23 AM
    Quote from: BlackDog on December 29, 2009, 09:33 PM
    A couple of questions I have regarding Jesus.

    Did he call himself a Prophet?

    Did he claim to receive Divine revelations from God?

    And would that God be Yahweh?


    very good questions. Afro
    ...
  • Re: Quick history on Judaism and Christianity?
     Reply #13 - December 30, 2009, 03:56 AM
    Hi Tommy,

    Did anyone actually answer your question?

    Didn't you ask:
    Quote from: Tommy on December 29, 2009, 07:00 PM
    A general overview of how Judaism transformed to Christianity.

    EDIT: The actual history, not what Christians and Muslims believe.


    All of Judaism was a number of steps to restoring God's creation back to him after a angel rebelled and insighted Adam and Eve to depart from wanting to be directed by thier Creator. Raising into question if the loving Creator really had the right and would really be the best at directing his own creation.

    Abraham wanted to follow God's direction because he had come to understand that God would be best at directing his creation. Because Abrahams loyalty to and love of his Creator, God promised him that his decsendants would become a nation and that all other nations would bless themselves by means of Abraham's seed.

    Later in history Abraham's seed by which all nations would bless themselves was revealed to to be Jesus.

    At the time of Jesus' life on earth the Jewish leaders (most of them anyhow) had become very rich and powerful. Most thought that they were special simplely because they were descendant of Abraham. They had become more interested in their own riches and power then they were in carefully administering the directions and loving care of God to all poeple interested in being directed by God. So they rejected the Messiah Jesus and opted for their own riches, power and the esteem of men.

    At that time there were however many people who loved God and wanted to be directed by him. So these people listened to Jesus and came to understand his teaching about the Kingdom of God that would bring mankind and the whole earth back into the perfect paradise that God alway intended for mankind. These people came to be called Christians (which means like the Christ).

    Since the Jews as a nation rejected the Messiah they rejected God's convenant with that nation for a Kingdom.

    This opened the way for people of all nation, including Jews, to as individuals show their desire and willingness to be part of that Kingdom either as kings and priests or as citizens as they would be directed by God.

    That in brief is my take on your question. I am real sure, as my Jewish relatives will confirm, that I have not told this account with the excultion of my Christian believes. I'm not sure that there is a way to tell this account without including the tellers believes.

    Hope I've been helpful.

    Lynna


    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Quick history on Judaism and Christianity?
     Reply #14 - December 30, 2009, 07:48 AM
    Did Abraham really exist?
  • Re: Quick history on Judaism and Christianity?
     Reply #15 - December 30, 2009, 07:09 PM
    Quote from: hupla on December 29, 2009, 08:27 PM

    As for Jesus - think Osama bin Laden:

    --- more bs snipped ---



    Please read a couple of the gospels and try again.
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