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Theme Changer

 Topic: Who named the chapters in the Quran?

 (Read 6299 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Who named the chapters in the Quran?
     OP - March 08, 2010, 09:59 AM

    Was it Allah?

    Mohammed?

    Or the compilers of Quran?

    In sura 59 (ol-Hashar), however, God takes pride in the eradication of the Nadir tribe and describes it as a merited punishment for their persistent adherence to Judaism. Abdollah b. ol-Abbas is reported to have given the name Surat Bani'n-Nadir to this sura.

    http://ali-dashti-23-years.tripod.com/

    Is that not interesting? I never thought about it, I always assumed the name of the chapter came down with the revelation. Were the revelations even chaptered?
  • Re: Who named the chapters in the Quran?
     Reply #1 - March 08, 2010, 10:04 AM

    Hmmm Thinking hard

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  • Re: Who named the chapters in the Quran?
     Reply #2 - March 08, 2010, 07:37 PM

    One more thing to consider. Mo didn't fix the length of chapters, we know that. But it's very telling, especially in light of chapter naming.
  • Re: Who named the chapters in the Quran?
     Reply #3 - March 08, 2010, 08:00 PM

     Huh? what do you mean?

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  • Re: Who named the chapters in the Quran?
     Reply #4 - March 08, 2010, 08:05 PM

    The naming of chapters were most likely man-made and not by the prophet. And so were the ordering of chapters.

    Is this similar to the inerrant tablet Quran that was there before existence of time?
  • Re: Who named the chapters in the Quran?
     Reply #5 - March 08, 2010, 08:12 PM

    That is very interesting, and I'm really surprised I never thought about that.

    The only thing we have to fear is fear itself
    - 32nd United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt
  • Re: Who named the chapters in the Quran?
     Reply #6 - March 08, 2010, 08:54 PM

    I've wondered about this too, esp. why are the chapters not arranged in the same order as they were revealed, i.e the verses revealed first should have been first with the last verses being at the end
  • Re: Who named the chapters in the Quran?
     Reply #7 - March 08, 2010, 10:25 PM

    It is said that Mo would say "these ayats go in this surah after such and such ayats"

    Quote from: Ahmad Von Denffer, "Ulum al-Quran"
    http://www.sunnipath.com/Library/Books/B0040P0008.aspx

    The Mushaf of Ibn Mas'ud (d. 33/653)

    He wrote a mushaf, in which sudras 1, 113 and 114 were not included. Ibn al-Nadim [Fihrist, I, pp. 57-8.] however said he had seen a copy of the Qur'an from Ibn Mas'ud which did not contain al-fatiha (Sura 1). The arrangement of the suras differed from the 'Uthmanic text. The following is the order attributed to Ibn Mas'ud's copy: [Fihrist, I, pp. 53-7.]

    2, 4, 3, 7, 6, 5, 10, 9, 16, 11, 12, 17, 21, 23, 26, 37, 33, 28, 24, 8, 19, 29, 30, 36, 25, 22, 13, 34, 35, 14, 38, 47, 31, 35, 40, 43, 41, 46, 45, 44, 48, 57, 59, 32, 50, 65, 49, 67, 64, 63, 62, 61, 72, 71, 58, 60, 66, 55, 53, 51, 52, 54, 69, 56, 68, 79, 70, 73, 74, 83, 80, 76, 75, 77, 78, 81, 82, 88, 87, 92, 89, 85, 84, 96, 90, 93, 94, 86, 100, 107, 101, 98, 91, 95, 104, 105, 106, 102, 97, 110, 108, 109, 111, 112.

    This list is obviously incomplete. It contains only 106 suras and not 110, as Ibn Nadim wrote.

    In Sura al-baqara, which I take as an example, there are a total of 101 variants. Most of them concern spelling, some also choice of words (synonyms), use of particles, etc.

    ...

    Nadim, who lived in the tenth century (4th century Hijra) also added: 'I have seen a number of Qur'anic manuscripts, which the transcribers recorded as manuscripts of Ibn Mas'ud. No two of the Qur'anic copies were in agreement and most of them were on badly effaced parchment ... [Fihrist, I, p. 57.]

    This note indicates that the question of authentic manuscripts of Ibn Mas'ud needs to be treated with some caution.

    The Mushaf of Ubay bin Ka'b (d. 29 H/649)

    He wrote a mushaf, in which two 'additional suras and another 'additional aya' were reportedly found.

    [Itqan, I, p. 65; Ibn Abi Dawud, masahif, pp. 18S1; also Noldeke, T. et al.: Geschichte des Qorans, Leipzig, 1909-38 (abbr. as GdQ), 11, pp. 33-8. The first so called sura entitled al-khal' (separation), translates as follows: 'O Allah, we seek your help and ask your forgiveness, and we praise you and we do not disbelieve in you.
    We separate from and leave who sins against you.' The second so-called sura, entitled al-hafd (haste) translates as follows: 'O Allah, we worship You and to You we pray and prostrate and to You we run and hasten to serve You. We hope for Your mercy and we fear Your punishment. Your punishment will certainly reach the disbelievers.' Obviously these two pieces constitute so-called 'qunut', i.e. supplications which the Prophet sometimes said in the morning prayer or witr prayer after recitation of suras from the Qur'an. They are in fact identical to some parts of qunut reported in the collections of hadith. See: Nawawi, al-adhkar, Cairo, 1955, pp. 57-8.

    As to the single additional so-called aya, its translation is as follows: 'If the son of Adam was given a valley full of riches, he would wish a second one, and if he was given two valleys full of riches, he would surely ask for a third one. Nothing will fill the belly of the son of Adam except dust, and Allah is forgiving to him who is repentant. '
    Again this text is known to be a hadith from the Prophet. See Bukhari, VIII, No. 444-47. According to Ibn 'Abbas (No. 445) and 'Ubay (No. 446) this text was at times thought to be part of the Qur'an. However Ubay himself clarifies that after sura 102: I had been revealed, they (i.e. the sahaba) did not consider the above to be part of the Qur'an. See Bukhari, VIII, No. 446. This explanation of Ubay also makes it very clear that the Companions did not differ at all about what was part of the Qur'an and what was not part of the Qur'an. when the revelation had ceased. and if e.g. this hadith occurred in the mushaf of Ubay, it was a mushaf for his own personal use, in other words, his private notebook, where he did not always distinguish between Qur'anic material and hadith, since it was not meant for general use and he himself knew well what to make of his own notes. The same is true of the other copies of the Qur'an, which some of the Companions had for their own personal use. Also those who transmitted to us the reports about these copies of the Qur'an of the Companions have only narrated to us the various differences which occurred there according to reports that reached them (e.g. the hadith in Bukhari, VIII, No. 446 that Ubay at some early stage held this sentence to be part of the Qur'an). However the actual manuscripts of these copies of the Qur'an of the Companions have not come down to us, since all of them agreed on the correctness and validity of the copies which 'Uthman had arranged to be written and distributed for general use. Hence their own personal notebooks became obsolete and were destroyed.]


    The order of the suras is again different from 'Uthman as well as Ibn Masud.

    The following is the order of suras in the copy attributed to Ubay b. Ka'b: [Fihrist, I, pp. 58-60.]

    1, 2, 4, 3, 6, 7, 5, 10, 8, 9, 11, 19, 26, 22, 12, 18, 16, 33, 17, 39, 45, 20, 21, 24, 23, 40, 13, 28, 27, 37, 38, 36, 15, 42, 30, 43, 41, 14, 35, 48, 47, 57, 52, 25, 32, 71, 46, 50, 55, 56, 72, 53, 68, 69, 59, 60, 77, 78, 76, 75, 81, 79, 80, 83, 84, 95, 96, 49, 63, 62, 66, 89, 67, 92, 82, 91, 85, 86, 87, 88, 74?, 98?, 61, 93, 94, 101, 102, 65?, 104, 99, 100, 105, ?, 108, 97, 109, 110, 111, 106, 112, 113, 114.

    Again, as in the case of Ibn Mas'ud above this list is incomplete and does not contain all 114 suras of the Qur'an.

    'Ubay has a total of 93 variants in Sura al-baqara. [Again taken as example only to illustrate the point.] Very often, his readings are similar to those of Ibn Mas'ud. For example, he reads al-baqara in 2:70 as al-baqira. So does Ibn Mas'ud.


    Quote from:  Arthur Jeffery, "The Mystic Letters of the Koran"
    http://www.answering-islam.org/Books/Jeffery/mystic_letters.htm
    We know that the present names for the Suras were not always or universally accepted, for there is still good tradition for the currency of other names for some of them; e. g., Sura ix in our editions is called "At-Tauba," but there is another name "Al-Bara'a" current in Tradition; Sura xvii "Al-Isra'" is also known as "Bani Israil," and Sura xxxii, "As-Sajda," as "Al-Madaji'," etc." Also at the present day the names differ somewhat in different parts of the Islamic world: e. g., Sura xl, which in the east is called "Al-Mu'min," is widely known in the west as "Al-Ghafir," and similarly Sura xlvii, "Mohammed," as "Al-Qital," etc.

    Talking about the letters at the beginning of Suras, he quotes Goossens for thinking that the "Mystic letters" (حروف مقطعة) are abbreviations for previous names of the surahs.

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Who named the chapters in the Quran?
     Reply #8 - March 08, 2010, 10:26 PM

    2nd time I see you quoting  Arthur Jeffery. Is he that good?
  • Re: Who named the chapters in the Quran?
     Reply #9 - March 08, 2010, 10:27 PM

    I think so. Old dead guys usually are.

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Who named the chapters in the Quran?
     Reply #10 - March 08, 2010, 10:30 PM

    lol

    What other authors should I check out?
  • Re: Who named the chapters in the Quran?
     Reply #11 - March 08, 2010, 10:39 PM


    What other authors should I check out?


    Check out Enid Blyton's Famous Five - its Brill! Afro

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  • Re: Who named the chapters in the Quran?
     Reply #12 - March 08, 2010, 10:41 PM

    Can you read German? I wish I could, I'd have my hands all over Noeldeke and Geiger. If I could read Arabic I'd be all over Suyuti's Itqan, and Tabari's Tarikh and Tafsir. Fatema Mernissi is cool too. At the moment my fascination is with Bahai history and scripture.

    Famous Five?

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Who named the chapters in the Quran?
     Reply #13 - March 08, 2010, 10:52 PM

    Famous Five?

    Yep, its an eloquent novel full of twists & turns of universal brother & sisterhood - has been a bestseller for decades, v. surprised you've never heard of it..

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  • Re: Who named the chapters in the Quran?
     Reply #14 - March 08, 2010, 11:00 PM

    oh that. i thought we were talking about islamiccy shit. -_-

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Who named the chapters in the Quran?
     Reply #15 - March 09, 2010, 03:44 AM

    I think the usual explanation is that God told the prophet how the quran was supposed to be ordered and he passed it on.

    "We were married by a Reform rabbi in Long Island. A very Reform rabbi. A Nazi."-- Woody Allen
  • Re: Who named the chapters in the Quran?
     Reply #16 - March 09, 2010, 09:57 AM

    Check out Enid Blyton's Famous Five - its Brill! Afro


     Cheesy

    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • Re: Who named the chapters in the Quran?
     Reply #17 - March 10, 2010, 09:51 AM

    I was taught in school that it was the Sahaabahs who named the surahs after Moe died. They named it while compiling the whole thing into one book...one big, boring book... whistling2

    I know someday you'll have a beautiful life, I know you'll be a star
    In somebody else's sky, but why, why, why
    Can't it be, can't it be mine

    https://twitter.com/AlharbiMoe
  • Re: Who named the chapters in the Quran?
     Reply #18 - March 10, 2010, 09:55 AM

    Ah thanks Moe. Did that not bother people? That the book was compiled? I mean, was the Holy Ghost there as well to inspire them to compile it so it looks like the eternal book in heaven?
  • Re: Who named the chapters in the Quran?
     Reply #19 - March 10, 2010, 10:41 AM

    hey, Moe, I suggest you change your usename to MoeAlsyzlaki. It's better for anonymity and stuff.

    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • Re: Who named the chapters in the Quran?
     Reply #20 - March 10, 2010, 10:45 AM

    I'll take my risks, Naerys  Wink

    I know someday you'll have a beautiful life, I know you'll be a star
    In somebody else's sky, but why, why, why
    Can't it be, can't it be mine

    https://twitter.com/AlharbiMoe
  • Re: Who named the chapters in the Quran?
     Reply #21 - March 10, 2010, 11:26 AM


    MoeAlharbi says
    Quote
    I'll take my risks, Naerys  Wink

      So glad to see you reading and writing in to forums like this dear MoeAlharbi.,

    Give the guys some Saudi Arabia forum links... Sure people will educate the guys over  there with in  a short time..

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
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