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Theme Changer

 Topic: About your videos

 (Read 57212 times)
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  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #420 - March 18, 2010, 04:48 PM

    ''AbuYnus - would you agree that if there is no higher justification (the one that is out of your grasp and out of your reach) it would appear that Allah has inverted values when it comes to shirk being the most immutable and unforgiveable sin?''

    Yes.


    ''Lets leave it at that - you can have your explanation because it hasn't been revealed to you - and keep your faith - but surely you'd concede that to people who don't trust in the 'higher cause' it makes no sense at all and is even shocking to common morality?''

    Yes


    Excellent, understanding the mind of someone with an opposing view is a great thing to be able to do, it's nice to see it Smiley

    When I read the Quran I can see many places where I think the author clearly believed in the flat geocentric earth model.  When you assume that (view) the verses make absolute sense and are very simple, when you try to make it fit into a heliocentric model all of the explanations for those verses suddenly become very complicated and philosophical.

    Now, just to have someone who is a Muslim admit that it does look that way would be a fantastic experience that one day I hope to have Smiley


    Yeah yeah alright I already apologised, what is this, the Spanish Inquistion.


    Were you expecting it?  If so, then no it isn't Smiley

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #421 - March 18, 2010, 04:52 PM

    That's because faith can't be framed in objective terms. It is subjective and according to the believer, it's about their relationship and closeness to God.

    Yes, but doesnt it prove that saying "I have faith" is unreliable and should not be used as an argument to others or even yourself?  If people with contrasting beliefs say the same thing, then thats proof enough.  They cant all be right?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #422 - March 18, 2010, 04:54 PM

    Yeah yeah alright I already apologised, what is this, the Spanish Inquistion.

    Soz, just catching up & working through the posts in order..

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #423 - March 18, 2010, 04:59 PM

    You are just angry with God.

    When people say that are they implicitly saying that there can be a reason to be angry with God?
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #424 - March 18, 2010, 05:03 PM

    I don't think it takes a lot of courage. Huh?

    Yep, I dont know about courage, but an understanding temperament perhaps, particularly as faith is usually so close to the chest.  I know that when I spend just 5 minutes on a muslim forum with opposing views, my blood begins to boil and make me want to jump up & down on my keyboard  finmad  

    So I can only imagine how hard for a muslim here, particularly when some posters here are way over the top, like Rashna for example.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #425 - March 18, 2010, 05:06 PM

    You are just angry with God.

    When people say that are they implicitly saying that there can be a reason to be angry with God?

    No, I dont think so. 

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #426 - March 18, 2010, 05:07 PM

    No, I dont think so. 


    How you be angry at somebody who is perfect though?
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #427 - March 18, 2010, 05:08 PM

    Yes, but doesnt it prove that saying "I have faith" is unreliable and should not be used as an argument to others or even yourself?  If people with contrasting beliefs say the same thing, then thats proof enough.  They cant all be right?


    To us, yes. What usually happens is that the initial leap of faith is made, once that is done, the reasoning part comes in to try and give faith a foundation based in reason. So the theologians then formulate arguments such as the cosmological, teleological and ontological arguments. As well as historical and/or the scientific stuff in order to give the faith some sort of force. The thing is though and you have a point here, is that all these reasons I've outlined here are portable and can usually be massaged to place under any belief system.
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #428 - March 18, 2010, 05:14 PM

    To us, yes. What usually happens is that the initial leap of faith is made, once that is done, the reasoning part comes in to try and give faith a foundation based in reason. So the theologians then formulate arguments such as the cosmological, teleological and ontological arguments. As well as historical and/or the scientific stuff in order to give the faith some sort of force. The thing is though and you have a point here, is that all these reasons I've outlined here are portable and can usually be massaged to place under any belief system.

    So if faith can be be massaged to justify any belief system, then the question is, is it good enough to use as justification to yourself & your personal beliefs?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #429 - March 18, 2010, 05:27 PM

    Yeah yeah alright I already apologised, what is this, the Spanish Inquistion.


    No body expects the Spanish Inquisition!

  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #430 - March 18, 2010, 05:33 PM

     Grin

    From left to right in that picture, Islame, Hassan and Iblis


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #431 - March 18, 2010, 05:38 PM

    looks about right

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #432 - March 18, 2010, 06:14 PM

    I have another question. Anybody can reply of course but I would like Abu to try to answer it as well.

    Bacterias and viruses "learn" to fight off antibiotics. How do they have this ability?

    If Allah has created everything, then he as created these bacterias and viruses. And more importantly the ability to adopt and evolve. It's either that they have the ability or He is doing it himself, he is changing the DNA structure. Either set the plans ahead to have them changed in current time, or is currently doing it, right as we speak.

    If it is God, is it not a bit sadistic or at least cruel for him to give bacterias and virus this ability to adopt and evolve? Every time we come close to ward off a horrible disease, and save children from these bacterias and strains of viruses come back and infect us and rape us. If we are Allah's best creation, and we have dominion over all creatures, then how are these viruses able to do this? Either Allah has granted them this power or the viruses will go to hell for murdering humans.

    Why would God do this? If he gave us the means and the soul to fight this off why does he let us die in this manner? We have no power against tsunamis but we could atleast fight off viruses and disease. We have the brains to. And we try. Yet we are bested, time and time again.

    For you, evolution is a theory that does not answer your questions.

    You speak of morality, but what of the morality of God?

    How many prayers does he need? How many more lives need we lose? How many hearts of mothers and fathers must be broken until He answers us? Or relieves us? When I prayed as a muslim, I prayed for world peace, I prayed for the poor and the sufferers, and I swear to you I felt a jolt of vain in my heart. Because deep down I must have known this is senseless. Even as I had my head to the floor begging the Lord of the Universe to have mercy on all humans I remembered I had to change my words to have mercy on all believers and all muslims. And I felt guilty for not including all humans but I thought to myself they have made their choice and Allah will deal with them individually. The Quran FORCED me to adapt to it, and even then I try to sneak around and include as many brothers and sisters as I could into my picture of heaven.

    When I was a muslim and these question arose, I had to ignore them. I just had to believe God is the most just and he will deal with a justice we comprehend. But how many times can I ignore my doubts? My questions? In the end, I had to face my demons. Even with the threat of eternal hell facing me. And I have come out the fire much stronger.

    The God of the Quran is not my God. Because we create God in our own image, and the image of God that I have does not fit well with the God of the Quran. This is because this God is a 7th century God, he has never heard of the atomic theory or globalization. He has not heard Martin Luther King's stirring speech, He has not ventured beyond our solar system and witnessed the miracles of the Universe.

    Any God I form, is a figment of my imagination. Of course there might be a god, or gods, or something. But anything that comes from us, is a mammalian God.
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #433 - March 19, 2010, 09:18 PM

    You're assuming polytheism is a sin because God is stupid, petty, insecure, jealous, envious and immoral. But perhaps polytheism is the extreme sin for another reason - perhaps a reason we do not understand fully.


    OK - let me put this another way, this time from an alternative theist perspective. 

    How do you know that the real test from God is to see whether humans were prepared to believe the words of a random man who claimed to have messages from him.  Ones that could see through the claims that he was prepared to let believers beat their wives & personally see to the roasting & torturing of polytheists for eternity. 

    How do we know that the real test was to see whether we would reject the words of random men from Israel & Arabia, which were handwritten by their human followers?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #434 - March 20, 2010, 09:59 PM

    OK - let me put this another way, this time from an alternative theist perspective. 

    How do you know that the real test from God is to see whether humans were prepared to believe the words of a random man who claimed to have messages from him.  Ones that could see through the claims that he was prepared to let believers beat their wives & personally see to the roasting & torturing of polytheists for eternity. 

    How do we know that the real test was to see whether we would reject the words of random men from Israel & Arabia, which were handwritten by their human followers?


    As I always say, if God told me to sacrifice my son I would tell him to fuck off, even if I knew 100% it was God.  How do I know that the test isn't to tell God to fuck off? If that ISN'T the test then I'd rather fail as a nice person than pass as the murderer of my own son.  I wouldn't want to spend time with anyone who required me to kill my own son, any such person would be a detestable shit head.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Previous page 1 ... 13 14 15« Previous thread | Next thread »