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Theme Changer

 Topic: Sex slaves

 (Read 2329 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Sex slaves
     OP - December 29, 2010, 10:49 AM

    Some guy has been challenging me, he said that 4:24 means that you can *marry* women of your enemies *who flee their disbelieving husbands*.

     I suggest you re-read it...

    Pickthal: and all married women (are forbidden? unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess.

    Mohsin: Also (forbidden are) women already married, except those (slaves) whom your right hands possess.

    Yusuf Ali: Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess

    And shall we also see what the Tafsirs say?

    Jalalayn: And, forbidden to you are, wedded women, those with spouses, that you should marry them before they have left their spouses, be they Muslim free women or not; save what your right hands own, of captured [slave] girls, whom you may have sexual intercourse with, even if they should have spouses among the enemy camp, but only after they have been absolved of the possibility of pregnancy

    Al Wahidi: we asked the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, about them. And the verse (And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess) was then revealed, as a result of which we consider it lawful to have a physical relationship with them"

    Tanwir Al Miqbas: (And all married women (are forbidden unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess) of captives, even if they have husbands in the Abode of War, after ascertaining that they are not pregnant, by waiting for the lapse of one period of menstruation.

    I couldn't find any others on Al Tafseer.com

    And let's take a look at a literal word-by-word translation:
    http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=4&verse=24
    "except whom you rightfully possess."

    The Arabic word is "مَلَكَتۡ" - which means "Slaves", it is also used here:

    4:3 - You can marry from your slaves.
    4:25 - You can marry from your slaves.
    4:36 - Be kind to your neighbours etc, and your slaves.
    16:71 - If Allah gives you provisions, don't give them to your slaves.
    23:6 - You can have sex with your wives and your slaves.
    24:31 - Tells women who they can expose their bodies to. Husband, brothers, etc...and their slaves.
    24:33 - Talks about slaves who wish to pay for their release
    24:58 - Slaves and children must ask your permission to be in your company
    30:28 - More about slaves
    33:50 - "We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war"
    33:52 - You cannot swap your women for lust....unless they are slaves.
    33:55 - Women are free to discuss with their father/sons/brothers, etc + slaves
    70:30 - You cannot have sex with women....except your wives and slaves

    So...you can do something with your slaves "even if they are married", you can do the same thing with your slaves that you do with your wives (so it isn't "marry"), you must be chaste with all women except your wives and slaves, they are clearly slaves because only a slave can be emancipated (24:33), slaves are spoils of war (33:50)

    Malakat (the word used for slaves, not "fleeing women") in the Quran is rooted in Mim Lam Kaf.

    Other words rooted in MLK and therefore related in meaning are
    MALAKatum - You POSSESS
    yaMLIKum - POWER/CONTROLS/POSSESSES
    yaMLIKuwnna - they will have POWER/CONTROL/WILL POSSESS
    taMLIKUhum - RULING them
    taMLIKU - will have POWER
    taMLIKuwnna - YOU will have POWER/CONTROL/WILL POSSESS
    aMLIKU - I will have POWER/POSSESS
    taMLIKA - you will have POWER
    MALIKI - Master
    MALIKA - Owner

    It's very easy to work out the meaning of words using corpus.quran.com by looking up where else those words are used + by looking at the most closely related words.

    This is all about having sex with people you own.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Sex slaves
     Reply #1 - December 29, 2010, 01:19 PM

    Just remember the word Nikah is used both for marriage and f.u.c.k.

    Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
    Islam's Last Stand (page)
    Islam's Last Stand (group)
    and many others...
  • Re: Sex slaves
     Reply #2 - December 29, 2010, 01:20 PM

    Yep.  Do any of those verses mention Nika or was it just a relevant comment?

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Sex slaves
     Reply #3 - December 29, 2010, 01:34 PM

    I only saw 4:3, the word Fankiho is mentioned, which is some form of nikaah
    4:25 has Yankiha and fankiho
    4:36 is more about being compassionate to all those people including slaves.
    23:6 23:5 tells you to guard your private parts and 23:6 gives exception from wives and slaves
    24:31 Again, I don't think the context is sex here. Its more covering additional body parts except from family members and slaves.

    Anyways, I don't think sex is mentioned in the rest either.

    Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
    Islam's Last Stand (page)
    Islam's Last Stand (group)
    and many others...
  • Re: Sex slaves
     Reply #4 - December 29, 2010, 01:42 PM

    The long list was to identify the fact that we were discussing "slaves" and not "women who flee your enemies in times of war".

    4:24 clearly tells you a long list of women who are "forbidden to you" which includes married women except your slaves.  What kind of Nika can you do to both your wives and your slave women?  It can't be "marry" because your wives are already married to you.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Sex slaves
     Reply #5 - December 29, 2010, 01:45 PM

    lol.. good point..

    Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
    Islam's Last Stand (page)
    Islam's Last Stand (group)
    and many others...
  • Re: Sex slaves
     Reply #6 - December 29, 2010, 02:01 PM

    Does anyone else have evidence that it is permissible to have sex with slaves?

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Sex slaves
     Reply #7 - December 29, 2010, 02:36 PM

    There's plenty of hadiths talking about it.
  • Re: Sex slaves
     Reply #8 - December 29, 2010, 02:38 PM

    yes, I intend to compile them at some point soon.  I am just looking into relevant solutions for my ipad.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Sex slaves
     Reply #9 - December 29, 2010, 05:40 PM

    I was reading some Hadith about slaves, but so far nothing.
    Did come across this though: Bukhari 1:12:807
    He said, "Allah has said, 'In this morning some of my slaves remained as true believers and some became non-believers; whoever said that the rain was due to the Blessings and the Mercy of Allah had belief in Me and he disbelieves in the stars, and whoever said that it rained because of a particular star had no belief in Me but believes in that star.' "

    Well, I guess I know what to say now when I see another "Quran predicted the rain cycle" video Smiley

    <dust>: i love tea!!!
    <dust>: milky tea
    <three>: soooo gentle for my neck (from the inside)
    <dust>: mm
    <three>: it's definitely not called neck
    <dust>: lol
    <three>: what's the word i'm looking for
    <dust>: throat
  • Re: Sex slaves
     Reply #10 - December 29, 2010, 08:35 PM

    http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?root=frj#(70:29:3)

    Is this correct?  It seems that when applied to a women it is chastity that must be guarded, but when applied to a man it is only his modesty that must be guarded.

    Is this biased translation, or is it correct?

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »