No Punishment for Apostasy in Islam

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- DARKEYED9
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Re: No Punishment for Apostasy in Islam
Reply #30 - January 27, 2011, 07:03 AM

Quote from: Hassan on January 26, 2011, 08:37 PM
Phew, that's a relief! We only face prison, guys!

lol!
- cosmicdancer
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Re: No Punishment for Apostasy in Islam
Reply #31 - January 27, 2011, 08:31 AM

Quote from: Zebedee on January 27, 2011, 01:40 AM
@Hassan

No doubt he's smarter than these semi-literate zealots masquerading as scholars, but the sad fact is that Islamic jurisprudence hasn't been formed by congenial, liberal-minded, Western-educated Timothy Winter-types. It has been (as you know better than I) founded by medieval-minded theocrats with a vested interest in enforcing and imposing their orthodoxy onto the masses.

Clearly there is no such thing as 'True Islam.' It's a fiction espoused only by individuals who are ignorant of Islam and those Muslims who believe in the single, saved sect. Nevertheless, there certainly are predominant strains of Islam, and it is those combined that form what is called, although perhaps loosely, 'orthodox' Islam. But it is characteristic of these orthodox groups that they all mandate the death penalty for apostasy (for the male apostate, at least), and are in consensus on the matter, and this they equate with a direct injunction from the Qur'an itself in terms of its legislative value.

I agree with you.

I reject the notion that there is any single entity that can be called "True Islam", but I accept (and have said many times) that many of the more orthodox, fundamentalist, traditionalists whatever you want to call them - are closer (at least on many issues) to what Muhammad brought than the moderates, liberals, esoterics etc...

My point to ALM was first that not all the more moderate Muslims are "ignorant" (case in point Abdul Hakeem Murad) - and nor are all the more moderate/liberal/esoteric groups without their claims to valid interpretation or a place in the many traditions within Islam. (How strong or weak these claims are is entirely another question of course.)
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Re: No Punishment for Apostasy in Islam
Reply #32 - January 27, 2011, 11:48 AM

Quote
In this respect, Ibn Taymiyah differentiated between two kinds of apostasy, an apostasy which does not cause harm to the Muslim society and an apostasy in which apostates wage war against Allah and His Messenger and spread mischief in the land. The repentance of the apostates in the first kind is accepted; while in the second kind, it is not if it occurs after the apostates have fallen into the power of the Muslim authority.

How do you distinguish between the two? Why should a person who has apostatized repent?. Voluntary conversions out of the faith may be construed as belonging to the second kind,more so if they are numerous.

Quote
Those who leave Islam and preach against the Muslim religion must be jailed, declared the imam who has become the new face of the proposed Islamic cultural center near Ground Zero in New York City.

"If someone leaves the din, leaves the path privately, they cannot be touched. If someone preaches about apostasy, or preaches their views, they're jailed," stated Imam Abdallah Adhami in a November lecture obtained and reviewed by WND.

Very smart! . He wants absolutely freedom to propagate his shit but can't stand an opponent doing the same. He doesn't realize that if he were to simply STFU and practice his nonsense and keep it to himself,he would be able to do that without any problems,thanks to the American constitution.
But no! He wants to shout from the rooftops telling people that he has the biggest and the holiest all conquering dick in the world and demands that no one should challenge him!
Freedom of speech is a two way street AFAIK!

The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
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Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
- Shahid Raza
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Re: No Punishment for Apostasy in Islam
Reply #33 - January 28, 2011, 10:48 PM

Quote from: Hassan on January 26, 2011, 05:03 PM
Abdul Hakeem Murad is one of the most knowledgeable Muslims I know. If you combined the knowledge of ten of those backward long bearded Mullahs it would not amount to his level of knowledge.

Yet he rejects the punishment for Apostasy.

Abdul Hakeem Murad (aka Timothy Winters) briefly discusses his views on apostasy over here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGEtfXQiKQk

.
- cosmicdancer
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Re: No Punishment for Apostasy in Islam
Reply #34 - January 28, 2011, 11:30 PM

Quote from: Shahid Raza on January 28, 2011, 10:48 PM
Abdul Hakeem Murad (aka Timothy Winters) briefly discusses his views on apostasy over here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGEtfXQiKQk

Actually he didn't discuss his view - he responded to Douglas Murray's statement that the 4 main schools of Sunni Law still mandate the death penalty for apostasy. Abdul Hakeem replied that he was at a conference in Jordan recently where the Muftis there and all the others rejected the death sentence, but proposed a prison sentence. Douglas Murray quite rightly responded "Too kind".

From my own personal conversations with Abdul Hakeem (he is married to the sister of my brothers wife so I see him from time to time) he rejects any punishment for straight-forward apostasy.

Here's a more detailed vid of Abdul Hakeem on the subject.

btw - I in no way agree with Abdul Hakeem - but my point has always been that there is not one entity you can call "True Islam" - but many interpretations. Nor even are all these interpretations in my opinion of equal validity. But in the eyes of those who believe it - that is what Islam is to them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQxzuU4ptiI
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Re: No Punishment for Apostasy in Islam
Reply #35 - January 29, 2011, 12:09 AM

'ISLAM ON DEMAND!'
They really mean business!

The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
Thomas Paine

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
- Alex Lam Meem
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Re: No Punishment for Apostasy in Islam
Reply #36 - January 29, 2011, 07:40 PM

Quote from: Hassan on January 27, 2011, 08:31 AM
I agree with you.

My point to ALM was first that not all the more moderate Muslims are "ignorant" (case in point Abdul Hakeem Murad) - and nor are all the more moderate/liberal/esoteric groups without their claims to valid interpretation or a place in the many traditions within Islam. (How strong or weak these claims are is entirely another question of course.)

Chillax, Hassan, I said more often than not.

"That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
- ChinaDoll
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Re: No Punishment for Apostasy in Islam
Reply #37 - January 29, 2011, 07:43 PM

I support him anything that stops crazy people from killing us , although im secretly atheist I promote moderate Islam it makes alot of muslims feel better about themselves .

"its fashionable to be an ex Muslim these days"
- mighty_cats
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Re: No Punishment for Apostasy in Islam
Reply #38 - January 29, 2011, 07:44 PM

'Islam on Demand'
Lol, because Islam has a long history of letting people come to Islam in their own time and choice...
- Alex Lam Meem
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Re: No Punishment for Apostasy in Islam
Reply #39 - January 29, 2011, 07:48 PM

TheCuteRebel, you are super cute, but please use punctuation, so we don't have to wonder which part of your sentence is allegorical.

"That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
- ChinaDoll
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Re: No Punishment for Apostasy in Islam
Reply #40 - January 29, 2011, 07:49 PM

I pay no attention to the things I write online !!!!!!!

"its fashionable to be an ex Muslim these days"
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