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Theme Changer

 Topic: Nouman Ali Khan

 (Read 7452 times)
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  • Nouman Ali Khan
     OP - June 12, 2013, 11:28 AM

    Have listened to a lot of his lectures on Tafsir. A scholar and teacher of the Arabic language, he points out subtler linguistic miracles within the Qur'an. Can any Arabic speakers who've watched his stuff attest to his accuracy or is it all just smoke and mirrors?

    Don't read all those science books bro, you'll just get more confused.

    That's funny. The more science I read, the less confused I get.
  • Nouman Ali Khan
     Reply #1 - June 12, 2013, 11:31 AM

    It's smoke and special pleading. His biggest linguistic miracle is that the word middle comes in the middle of a surah.
  • Nouman Ali Khan
     Reply #2 - June 12, 2013, 11:59 AM

    Yeah seen that and the palindrome. Watch one of his lectures, the way he breaks down words and explains their connotations root meanings etc ie analyses from a literary perspective, seems convincing to a non-arabic speaker such as myself but there does seem to be an amount of sophistry at play. In one of his lectures he cites the work of Bucaille....... using it to attest the fact that the mention of Haman by Muhammad (pbuh) was a miracle.

    Don't read all those science books bro, you'll just get more confused.

    That's funny. The more science I read, the less confused I get.
  • Nouman Ali Khan
     Reply #3 - June 12, 2013, 03:23 PM

    It's an illusion. You can make any linguistic piece of a book, essay, or anything sound sophisticated as long as you are willing to put in the effort. Find ways that make the language "amazing" and "wonderful" like finding a middle word in the middle of a surah, and you've done the trick.
  • Nouman Ali Khan
     Reply #4 - June 12, 2013, 03:47 PM

    Its complete snake oil, sophistry and da'wah nonsense.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Nouman Ali Khan
     Reply #5 - June 12, 2013, 04:23 PM

    What led you to that conclusion fi you don't mind me asking?

    Don't read all those science books bro, you'll just get more confused.

    That's funny. The more science I read, the less confused I get.
  • Nouman Ali Khan
     Reply #6 - June 12, 2013, 05:34 PM

    I think Nouman Ali Khan, minus the usual proselytizing bullshit of his, is central to the literary appreciation of the Quran. One surely cannot dodge the fact that the Quran is a historical document of the 7th century desert Arabia, which is also to say that it originates from an era where beauty only existed in the imagination. This is a great recipe for a rich language. And I do believe that as a piece of literature, the Quran is beautiful, even someone like Sam Harris had no problems conceding that.

    I don't think there is something wrong with appreciating the Quran the same way some appreciate the King James Bible for non-religious reasons. But the moment one goes on to say that the Quran is God's indisputable book, everything worthwhile in the Quran suddenly becomes fantastically uninteresting. What is so miraculous with a god able to produce a literary fascinating book? Shouldn't that be considered below his attention, given the fact (or myth to be precise) that he created the little universe of ours with ease?

    Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.
  • Nouman Ali Khan
     Reply #7 - June 12, 2013, 05:59 PM

    Hi jvegas

    I don't speak arabic but just doing some research I think I have an insight you might find interesting

    This page may be of help: http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=wsT#%282:143:4%29

    The root word with the connotation of middle/average is used 5 times in the quran (Waw-Siin-Tay). Under it's 4 other uses, it's not in the middle verse of the surah it's in. Also, under no circumstance is the word actually in the middle of the verse it's in (including the one in 2:143). nor is it used in the true middle of the quran (18:19). Nor even if you remove the verse system of a surah and just have a long line of text is it ever in the middle of that (including 2:143).

    Someone with greater knowledge than I might be able to attest to the creation of the quran (recensions etc.) and how Islamic tradition shows multiple variants in ordering of verses, verses abrogated and left out of the quran etc. Because of this I've always regarded any numerological, linguistic 'miracle' extracted from the quran to be purely dependent on the work of men and furthermore only looking at one particular collection of quran among many (abit not earth-shatteringly different) versions.

    Does Mr. Khan inform his audience of the inconsistency I illustrated above? No, of course not! That's why I find this to be smoke and mirrors, play up nuggets of gold, play down the mountains of pyrite.

    Edit: One last point I just thought of is that surah 2 consists of 286 verses, that's an even number. Only odd numbers can have true middles.

    For example take: 1, 2, 3, 4
    The middle is 2 but it's not really the middle

    For an alternate example take: 1, 2, 3
    The middle is really 2

    Was just a spontaneous thought I had Tongue
  • Nouman Ali Khan
     Reply #8 - June 12, 2013, 07:15 PM

    Recroom, it's not even about looking at one collection from another. It's looking at a pattern that works compared to a thousand patterns that don't work.

    By the way, you read my mind Smiley. The first thought that I had was about the number being even when I read about this miracle. However, I didn't bother saying it because people would think I'm too obsessed with mathematical patterns 
  • Nouman Ali Khan
     Reply #9 - June 22, 2013, 05:33 AM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aidHpAgZ3o

    Here he is making his case again. Scientific part is glossed over he actually seems a little embarrassed. Bucaille is mentioned by him though.

    Don't read all those science books bro, you'll just get more confused.

    That's funny. The more science I read, the less confused I get.
  • Nouman Ali Khan
     Reply #10 - June 22, 2013, 05:36 AM

    am i supposed to get a hard on whenever these videos commence with a nasheed? Because it ain't working.
  • Nouman Ali Khan
     Reply #11 - June 22, 2013, 05:38 AM

    I don't think that's part of the package (excuse the pun). Glad to know you're not aroused.

    Don't read all those science books bro, you'll just get more confused.

    That's funny. The more science I read, the less confused I get.
  • Nouman Ali Khan
     Reply #12 - June 22, 2014, 09:19 AM

    I just spent an hour watching his lecture: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZUBVjZq7LA and others for some research on Quranic literary miracle claims I'm doing and he just waffles about a load of bullshit. He could easily summarise his ideas in a few short words but doesn't.

    Anyway, here's his logic: ‘The ayat ‘we made you a middle nation’ is located in the middle of surah 2 of the Quran, therefore miracle’. As mentioned before, that verse is not located in the middle of the surah at all, it is just half of 286. That was the choice of the editors and not of Muhammad. You may as well claim that 'The Opening' is located at the beginning of the Qur'an, therefore miracle.

    'In another Allah mentions two hearts. We know a person only has one heart. But when a woman is pregnant how many hearts does she have? 2. Therefore, miracle.' But, what about twins, triplets, quadruplets and so on....? Anyway, the ayat in question has nothing to do with pregnancy but is meant to refer to the fact that the heart of man is meant to worship Allah and not others.

    'In another ayat Allah mentions neither drowsiness nor sleep can overcome him. We know that before you fall asleep you begin to feel drowsy. Therefore, miracle.'

    To be fair, Noumann does stress at the beginning of some of his lectures that he realises this is all subjective and that he considers these to be  :Dmiracles from his interpretation as he is a student of language. But, I have never honestly heard such BS about nothing in all my life.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Nouman Ali Khan
     Reply #13 - June 22, 2014, 09:56 AM

    Nouman Ali Khan is quite popular among the moderate salafis and "orthodox sunnis" in the West, and there's a reason for that. First of all, he comes off as a "knowledgeable" and "humble" individual, who really gets Islam. No, he really gets Islam and what it's about. He focuses solely on the Quran and just immerses himself in the understanding of the word of allah all-mighty all-high. He can spend an entire lecture going through one or two verses, and at the end he's like "oh, and this is just scratching on the surface, there is so much more I don't even know or understand yet". This gives the impression not only that the Quran is so great because he spent an entire hour for one verse, but that it's even greater than we can imagine because there is so much more to learn still from this single verse! People like drama.

    Secondly, he usually keeps his disgusting Islamic views "hidden", and only on occasions vents them to other like-minded. Especially in front of non-Muslims, he comes off as this super moderate and rational individual. Muslims like that, they like someone they can show off and say "seeeee, we're not so bad with our death for apostasy and stoning and whatnot" Smiley Also, Muslims with a conscience don't like to be reminded of all the nasty things they ignore about their religion, so he's perfect to turn to for a little bit of imaan-boost  Afro

    Anyway, what I would say Nouman Ali Khan is gifted with, is the gift of bullshitting. He can take one opinion or argument, like Jedi said which should only take like 30 seconds to explain, but turns it into this whole speech which makes people think he actually knows shit. He doesn't. Be critical, don't have any biases when you listen to him, and just analyze what he is really saying. It's bullshit every last bit of it. He makes it fancy by giving "linguistic" definitions and explanations, but as a linguist, I can say that there is no one true "essence" or meaning in language. Language changes, the semantics in particular is continuously changing. To be honest, irregardless of how many books and encyclopedias has been written on "Quranic Arabic", there is no way we can understand it 100 %. Don't forget that the Quran is a literary work, and with every other single literary work, we never know the "true" intent of the author. And especially with these neo-moderate-"orthodox"-sunnis-"we believe in true Islam" peeps who have started to pop up lately with their mutawatir claims so that we-can-do-away-with-some-of-the-nasty-uncomfortable Islamic beliefs, mutawatir hadeeth are not nearly enough to even understand the basics (if we're going down that road with Mo being the "mufassir"). Even with all the ahaad hadeeth... well, there's a reason for the plethora of Quranic interpretations even within the same sects...

    Even during Mo's time, first class sahaba didn't know what different verses meant, because their Arabic skills were lacking. I remember a narration where a first class sahaba admitted that until then, he hadn't understood this and this verse until a Bedouin had used that particular verb in a sentence and given him context and understanding of the word (I wish I had the motivation to go and look it up so that you can have the narration in its entirety, but I don't Smiley I don't even remember the verse, maybe some of our CEMB scholars knows which verse I'm talking about Wink ). What I wanted to say is, this is just a confirmation of what we know; language change happens in real time. Then what are you going to say about a language that isn't even spoken today, which was a particular Arabic dialect of a people that lived 1400 years ago. It's so stupid that I don't even want to go on about it...


    Urrghh. I feel like this is turning into a incoherent text. I'll stop here. wacko

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Nouman Ali Khan
     Reply #14 - June 22, 2014, 10:06 AM

    To be fair, Noumann.............

    Jedi I will give as many excuses as possible  to 100 of  millions of Muslim folks who never read Quran or hadith,  but they just follow what they heard  from their family members or some good preachers or rogue preachers of Islam  that preach in mosques. And  I will give 1000 of excuses for high school/college going Muslims  kids  for not reading Quran, not understanding  Islam or  Islamic history  and the basic  reason why  Islam came in the middle  of the Arabia desert.

     but  i will  never be fair to educated fools such as Noumann.  I will heckle,  insult and pour as much dirt as I can ..

    Quote
    I just spent an hour watching his lecture: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZUBVjZq7LA and others for some research on Quranic literary miracle claims....

    Anyway, here's his logic: ‘The ayat ‘we made you a middle nation’ is located in the middle of surah 2 of the Quran, therefore miracle’.


    'In another Allah mentions two hearts. We know a person only has one heart. But when a woman is pregnant how many hearts does she have? 2. Therefore, miracle.' ...

    'In another ayat Allah mentions neither drowsiness nor sleep can overcome him.  .... Therefore, miracle[/i].'

    yap.....  every word of Quran is a miracle to these fools.. But the fools don't know the simple fact  that  "THE SHIT THAT COMES OUT THEIR ASSES ALSO A  ALLAH MIRACLE"

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Nouman Ali Khan
     Reply #15 - June 22, 2014, 11:32 AM

    i tried watching a few of his videos, and i skipped the intro parts where he wasn't really saying anything. But it turned out that he never ended up saying anything. Never really made any actual points. Never put forward an argument.
    I assumed that he waffles around the points that he makes, but I was wrong. All waffle. No points. Pretty annoying really, because he can talk for hours and hours.
  • Nouman Ali Khan
     Reply #16 - June 22, 2014, 12:39 PM

    I agree with CF, Yeezy bhai and dr that Nouman is BS central. He's like grandpa Simpson relating all his old stories and not ONE of them has got shit wo dow tih what you asked him about in the first lace. He goes off ont angents e.g. when talking about drowsiness and makes the jokes my uncle used to make which makes the whole point redundant. He kept on repeating, this  is the ebauty of Allah, this is the miracle. It surprises me how long it can take for people to say so little.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Nouman Ali Khan
     Reply #17 - June 22, 2014, 12:48 PM

    Another argument from the Quran is a miracle sleeve: 'Allah promised that He made the Quran easy to remember: Muslims throughout the world, even non-Muslims will tell you that the Qur'an is easy to remember. Children read it and you can get people from different parts of the world come together and they will recite the same thing line for line.'

    I think I'll call the Village People and let them know that 'YMCA' is a miracle. Also, Lady Gaga, the Jackson family,  a host of rappers and some cheesy pop artists.

    The Qur'an rhymes, but that doesn't make it easy to remember. It's boring and tedious. The reason that most people rememebr it is because they were indoctrinated as children nd forced to learn it in a mosque. I know more Star Wars quotes than I do Qur'anic ones.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Nouman Ali Khan
     Reply #18 - June 22, 2014, 01:09 PM

    Another BULLSHIT gem from this stand up comedian:

    Another contendor for miracle of the eyar: ‘The Qur’an says that if this book were from other than Allah then in it you would’ve found some contradictions in the book. Even the word for contradiction in that ayat occurs only once in the Qur’an. Someone could also argue that they found another word for contradiction, but it’s not the same word or pronunciation as that one word. The Qur’an is incredibly precise. Likewise, a word that Allah uses to refer to himself as unique only occurs once. Subhan’allah.

    What preciseness is he talking about? How is that one word precise? Just because it is not repeated again?

    However, what he considers THE most convincing argument for a miracle of the Qur'an is: ‘The most profound miracle of the Qur’an is the word ‘Qur’an’ itself.’ The word comes from ‘Qarra’ which means ‘to recite’, but the way it is formed with that ‘an’ at the end, it means ‘that which is recited excessively. Now think about this, we’re living in the age of mass media. We’re living in an age in which some artists’ releases a song and a million mp3s are downloaded right?  And one of the things we are arguing is the Qur’an is THE most recited.

    First of all, I think he is taking liberties with the 'word 'Qur'an'. Indeed it does mean recitation but not 'the most recited' as in most people in the world will recite the Qur'an. And if that were true, it's not the case that it is the most recited book. There are over a billion muslims yet I know for a fact, given the high literacy levels in predominantly Muslim countries, the people do not know/nor recite the Qur'an as often as Nouman thinks they do. Even if Muslims did know the Qur'an word for word and recited it everyday, that does not render it a miracle.It jsut shows what mindless programming can do to a person given enough time and patience.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Nouman Ali Khan
     Reply #19 - June 22, 2014, 01:16 PM

    omg his arguments and points are even lamer than I remember Grin Put in some dramatic nasheed, Noumans usual "Subhaaanallah, this is the miracle, this is the beauty of allah" every other sentence, and you have these oafs thinking he is actually saying anything remotely intelligent  Cheesy

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Nouman Ali Khan
     Reply #20 - June 22, 2014, 01:25 PM

    I know. Shameful to admit, I would buy it hook line and sinker if I were a muslim today. Probably.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Nouman Ali Khan
     Reply #21 - June 22, 2014, 01:34 PM

    I know. Shameful to admit, I would buy it hook line and sinker if I were a muslim today. Probably.

    Jedi look forward.. never look back and feel sorry when it comes to religions and what you did/didn't do  because silly stuff from them. Yes whatever is done is done..   Past..

    And Your guns are blazing at stupid linguistic jugglery miracles of silly  book.. Glad to read you..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Nouman Ali Khan
     Reply #22 - June 22, 2014, 02:11 PM

    I know. But it helps to understand how these people, some with good intentions, are swayed by this mumbo jumbo espoused by clowns like Nouman.


    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
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