I say mini because I wanted to avoid a fight, so I simply game ONE response and then let them respond.
They start by saying
Islam is the way to the God:
Islam began when man's career on earth began. Allah, the Almighty God, created Adam and Eve and enjoined them to worship Him and live a life of obedience to the Divine Will.
Allah is the Creator and he is All-knowing of the Universe and of human beings. Man must turn to Him for sustenance and guidance.
The day Adam and Eve were sent down to live on earth, Allah told them that they were caretakers of the Earth, and they were His servants, just like all of his creatures, and He was their Lord, Master and Creator. He told them and mankind that the best course was for them to follow His guidance, to obey His commandments and to refrain from what He had forbidden. the God said to them that He would be pleased if they obeyed Him and in turn He would reward them. If, however, they did not heed His commands, He would be displeased and would punish them. This was the simple beginning of Islam.
And so kufr came into existence:
Adam and Eve invited their children to follow the Islamic way of life. They and their children and their later generations followed the teachings of Islam as propounded by Prophet Adam -peace be upon him- for quite a long period of time. It was only later on that certain people began disobeying Allah. Some of them began worshipping other gods of their own making, some of them regarded themselves as gods, while a few others even declared their freedom to do as they pleased defying God's orders. This is how kufr (disbelief) came into being. Its essence lies in refusal to worship the God and pursuing the path of defiance to the Creator.
In need of heroes!
When kufr (disbelief) began to increase and multiply it affected the life of society in a number of ways. Exploitation, oppression, viciousness and immorality emerged in different forms. Life became intolerable. the God then appointed some righteous people to preach the Message of Truth among the wrongdoers, invite them to the Right Path and convert them to God-fearing people worshipping and obeying the God Alone. In short, they were asked to perform a mission to make people righteous and true Muslims. These noble people entrusted with this great mission were called Prophets or Messengers of the God. Allah, Glory be to him, sent these Prophets to different nations and countries. All of them were honest, truthful, and people of noble character. All of them preached the same message: Islam. To mention a few names: Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Ishmael, Moses, Aaron, David, Solomon and Jesus -peace be upon them all-. All of them were the Prophets of God and thousands of them were, over the centuries, sent into the world to guide mankind.
The same message again and again!
In the history of the last few thousand years, one can see the recurrent arrival of Prophets whenever kufr (disbelief) increased and assumed menacing proportions. The prophets tried to stop the tide of disbelief and invited people towards the original Islam. Some people adopted the Islamic way of life, but others rejected it. The people who followed the Prophets became Muslims and, after learning higher ethical and moral disciplines from them, began to preach and spread nobility and goodness. Having forgotten the teachings of Islam, later generations of Muslims themselves gradually sank into disbelief. Whenever such a situation arose, God sent a Prophet or Messenger to revive Islam. This continual arrival of Messengers of God continued for thousands of years. In the course of those long years, Islam was revived by those Prophets, who restated the Message forgotten by their people. At long last God sent his last and final mesenger, Mohammed -peace be upon him-, who revived Islam in such an outstanding fashion that it still exists today and will continue to exist (God willing), till eternity.
In turn I replied
God's focus was not about converting people to believe
The first prophets were for the Hebrew people. They had no intention of converting people to a particular belief, and there was no such thing as kufr. God's focus was on the Hebrew people. All the prophets you mentioned were from the Old testament. Those are stories and events and laws specific to the Hebrew (God's chosen people) Now if you have the Bible/Old Testament. When Joseph interpreted the dreams which saved the Pharaoh's people from the drought. They were Egyptians not Jews, they were 'kufrs' who worshiped different Gods, yet God never instructed Joseph nor Moses to convert them into 'believing" or subduing them. The reason why God smited them with the plagues was because they had enslaved the Hebrew people/God's chosen people, and refused to let them go. When the first Pharaoh treated Joseph and people kindly there was no problem and everyone as happy. If you don't believe me read the Torah OR Genesis in the Bible.
Christian's prophet
Now when Jesus came, this is when the New Testament begins. Jesus grew up in the ways of the Hebrew people, but did not like the laws and rituals and thus set out to change them.
Example
"He without sin cast the first stone" he said to the people about to stone a woman to death who committed adultery (As was the law). Thus saving her life.
"It is not what goes into the mouth of man, it is what comes out" Hence why unlike Muslims and Jews, Christians do not have dietary restrictions and eat pork without guilt. Because Jesus wished to do away with those laws.
Now the Jews do not believe in Jesus and the prophets because they were skeptical about mortal humans claiming to be prophets. They only follow the original texts and laws as written by Moses, since they were warned about future prophets (which yes includes Jesus and Muhammad) who may, try to profit by claiming to be sent from God and use it for personal gratification. If you don't believe me again read, either the Bible OR the Talmud. God said they would be forgiven because he remembered the covenant Abraham and Issac made even though they were quite disobedient and broke the laws.
Quran Mix up?
Now the Quran's laws mixes up both Old Testament (Hebrew laws) and New Testament ( Christian laws)
Jesus wanted to do away with the Old testament rules. No more stoning and cruel punishment for adultery, no more 'an eye for an eye' philosophy, no more obsessions over dietary laws, even divorce was frowned upon to encourage someone to have 1 spouse instead of many. All of which the prophet of Islam ignored and kept the Old testament laws.
Interestingly enough, Hell is mentioned all throughout the Quran which was something that was NOT mentioned in the Old testament. Only in the New testament when Jesus came. Hence why Jews do not believe in hell. They do not believe in eternal suffering of fire, if someone commits a GRAVE sin their soul is simply gone.
The Hebrew people were God's original people, and it says so over and over again. Abraham and all the prophets were NOT Muslims like Islam claims. Even Christians acknowledge that they were all Hebrew people. But Jesus's teachings were for everyone not just the Hebrews
MY POINT If you are still reading this. I recommend you read/research the Talmud/Tanakh (Old Jewish texts), AND the New Testament and about Jesus.. because both came wayyyy before the Quran was written and Islam was a thing. Those books explains about the prophets in detail. If you don't believe anything which I have said, ask a Christian or a Jewish person. Research my claims outside of the Quran and Islamic websites. It's eye opening.
in which they responded.
have you read the Bible or the Talmud/Jewish holy text? They came into existence thousands of years before Islam came to be.
you mean they came into existence BEFORE Adam? wow! I didn't know that. you would be right if you said "they came into existence before Mohammed -peace be upon him-. but apparently, you didn't understand my article here. Islam was always the ORIGINAL religion. Moses ruled with Islam, and so did Jesus. it was the same core message. of course, there were some different details based on time and people, but it was the same message that in Arabic, we call Islam.
The Quran copied the stories from them.
you are making a claim that you need to PROVE. Christians claim "the Qur'an tells similar stories, so it must be copied from the Bible. therefore it must be wrong" and when the Qur'an tells something different, they say "The Qur'an contradicts the Bible, so it must be wrong"
I can prove to you that some Biblical stories are found in the ancient Mesopotamian legends. does this prove the Bible to be "copied" from them? not necessarily. THEY COME FROM THE SAME SOURCE: THE GOD. that's why some stories are similar. of course, some stories are different, why? because the scribes and scholars who wrote the Torah and Bible "changed" them. so the Qur'an came to "correct" the corruption in the old books and restore the ORIGINAL ISLAM.
The first prophets were for the Hebrew people. They had no intention of converting people to a particular belief, and there was no such thing as kufr.
Again, you didn't understand what I had written above. I said God sent prophets to all nations. Hebrew prophets were not sent to convert Egyptians, and prophets sent to Babylon were not sent to convert the Palestinians. every nation had prophets responsible to bring their own people to the right track.
When Joseph interpreted the dreams which saved the Pharaoh's people from the drought. They were Egyptians not Jews, they were 'kufrs' who worshiped different Gods, yet God never instructed Joseph nor Moses to convert them into 'believing" or subduing them.
do you have a strong evidence that Joseph -peace be upon him- didn't invite a single Egyptian to the path of the God? and before that, did you read the Islamic version of the story of Joseph? and how do you know the Biblical version is more correct than the Qur'anic version?
I know you don't believe in the holy Qur'an, but the God said in the Qur'an that Moses was instructed to invite Pharaoh to Islam and to refrain from claiming divinity. so indeed all prophets of the God were carrying the same message: to invite people to Islam.
if you don't believe me, read the holy Qur'an.
but you are free to believe your scripture is right if you want. I prefer to believe the one that gives me more evidence and that makes more sense to me. the QUr'an makes more sense to me. therefore, I believe its version of these stories.
Now the Quran's laws mixes up both Old Testament (Hebrew laws) and New Testament ( Christian laws)
you are mistaken. the law came from God, and it's called Islam. God gave the law to many nations. it had slight differences, but the core was the same. Moses -peace be upon him- brought Islam, the Jews changed it with time, that's the reason why the God kept sending prophets to correct it. the Jews called their changed Islam "Judaism" and then the God sent Jesus -peace be upon him- to correct the corrupted Islam, Jesus restored Islam, but after his ministry, his people changed it and made him into a god and called their changed Islam "Christianity", so the God sent his final prophet Mohammed -peace be upon him- to restore Islam again. but this time, mankind didn't change the name or the core of the religion. so it remained like it came. the scripture of Mohammed -peace be upon him- was the Qur'an. having the Qur'an coming after the other scriptures doesn't mean it has to be totally different to be accepted, or identical to be accepted. the Qur'an agrees with the old scriptures in the parts that were not altered. and differs in the corrupted parts. because it came to restore the ORIOGINAL ISLAM and to work as criterion of truth.
Jesus wanted to do away with the Old testament rules. No more stoning and cruel punishment for adultery, no more 'an eye for an eye' philosophy, no more obsessions over dietary laws, even divorce was frowned upon to encourage someone to have 1 spouse instead of many. All of which the prophet of Islam ignored and kept the Old testament laws.
I disagree again. Jesus -peace be upon him- said it many times that he didn't do anything by himself, he was simply doing what he was ordered by the God. You need to understand the law in historical perspective. the Jews in the time of Moses -peace be upon him-, lived life of traveling, so they needed a law that fits their lifestyle. Jesus -peace be upon him- came in a different time with different circumstances, so he brought different laws that fit the people of his time. the prophet Mohammed -peace be upon him- brought law that doesn't only fit the people of his time, but fits all of humanity until the end of the world. and that's why his revelation is the perfect way of life.
Interestingly enough, Hell is mentioned all throughout the Quran which was something that was NOT mentioned in the Old testament. Only in the New testament when Jesus came. Hence why Jews do not believe in hell. They do not believe in eternal suffering of fire, if someone commits a GRAVE sin their soul is simply gone.
if Hell is not mentioned in Jewish scripture, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. someone needs to check the credibility of the scripture before affirming or agreeing with it. the Qur'an states that the Jews altered their scripture, so they might have changed the parts that deal with this issue. the Qur'an came to correct the corruption in previous scriptures.
The Hebrew people were God's original people, and it says so over and over again. Abraham and all the prophets were NOT Muslims like Islam claims. Even Christians acknowledge that they were all Hebrew people. But Jesus's teachings were for everyone not just the Hebrews
Abraham and all other prophets -peace be upon them- WERE MUSLIMS. if you don't want to believe it or admit it, it's up to you. maybe you don't even know the meaning of the word Islam. I highly recommend you check what Islam means. Abraham -peace be upon him- submitted his will to the will pf the God, and worshipped him according to God's commandments, these commandments are the ones Mohammed -peace be upon him- came to restore. Mohammed -peace be upon him- never claimed to bring a new religion. he simply came to restore the same truth taught by all prophets of God.
as for Jesus, he was only for the Hebrews, he also told his disciples that he was sent only for Israel. it's just that Christians spread their message and made it universal. every prophet was sent to only one tribe/nation. the only prophet that was sent to the whole of mankind was the final prophet, Mohammed -peace be upon him-.
I recommend you read/research the Talmud/Tanakh (Old Jewish texts), AND the New Testament and about Jesus..
I am doing so. and I am discussing with a couple of Christians. I find some truth in the Bible, but I also find things that shouldn't exist in a book of God...
because both came wayyyy before the Quran was written and Islam was a thing.
A comes before B doesn't necessarily mean A is right and B is false...
Those books explains about the prophets in detail.
I read about the prophets in the Bible. and I discovered how greatly their image was distorted and the disgusting lies that were attributed to them. I can't believe such pornography to be in the book of the God. I can't even read such things to my wife.
you are inviting me to read about the prophets in your book, I also invite you to do the same. Read the Qur'an before you judge it.
I don't expect you to agree with all what I said here. I do respect your opinion hoping that you respect mine. you have all right to spread what you believe is the truth and I also have the right to spread what I believe is the truth. and people who care to search more will certainly find who's right and who's wrong.
And I left it at that. I know better than to dispute claims such as the Bible lies, and the Torah lies (without any examples given to me), and Islam came to correct everything. Interestingly enough I never said that the Quran lies (out of respect). I only point out inconsistencies with examples.
Any thoughts?
Topic: My first mini debate :) About Islam