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Theme Changer

 Topic: Atheism Is Not A Belief

 (Read 12145 times)
  • Previous page 1 2 3« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #60 - January 20, 2012, 09:08 PM

    Quote
    Belief in the non-existence of gods?


    If you don't think fairies exist, do you hold a 'belief' because you don't think that fairies exist?

    The 'belief' being equated here is between a positive assertion of an immanent reality that is God, that religious people don't 'believe' in but know as a reality as certain as that they have teeth in their mouth and that the sea contains water, and the idea that to not accept that reality is an equivalent belief.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #61 - January 20, 2012, 09:16 PM

    Is it this time again?
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #62 - January 20, 2012, 09:18 PM

    Apparently. Schrodinger's Horse.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #63 - January 20, 2012, 09:20 PM

     Cheesy That's clever.
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #64 - January 20, 2012, 09:24 PM

    Yeah I love it. Unfortunately I didn't invent it. One of the guys over at TalkRats came up with it a few weeks ago. Pure genius.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #65 - January 20, 2012, 09:30 PM

    Quote
    If you don't think fairies exist, do you hold a 'belief' because you don't think that fairies exist?


    Sure, why not? Maybe I am missing something.
    This can only apply to those who've entertained the concept of a fairy though. So I wouldn't claim a rock or a newborn baby holds a belief in the absence of fairies.

    Quote
    The 'belief' being equated here is between a positive assertion of an immanent reality that is God, that religious people don't 'believe' in but know as a reality as certain as that they have teeth in their mouth and that the sea contains water, and the idea that to not accept that reality is an equivalent belief.


    It's probably true that theists on average are much more certain in their position, but there are varying degrees of certainty among theists as well.

    Have you heard the good news? There is no God!
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #66 - January 20, 2012, 09:41 PM

    Quote
    Sure, why not?


    OK. So there are Fairy-ists in the world. Those who do not 'believe' in fairies.

    We can make a list of things and ask do you believe in it. Do you believe in a purple monster that lives in a cave in India. Do you believe in a psychic monkey that lives on top of a lamppost in Liverpool. Do you believe in a shape-shifting stingray-human animal that lives on land and sea in Australia.

    'Belief' is ascribed to those who don't accept the immanent reality of 'God', that he / it / she is as real as the teeth in your mouth and the marmalade on your toast. It suggests then that those who don't go along with that are carriers of a belief as potentially tendentious / flawed / ungrounded in anything other than intuition as those who 'believe' in God (which again is tendentious in its own right, because 'believers' in god don't believe, they KNOW he exists)

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #67 - January 20, 2012, 09:41 PM

    Are we really arguing over the semantics here? Lack of belief does not constitute as a belief. Is it really hard to grasp this?

    The religious/agnostic are merely playing a word play here just to corner the atheist in this double standard position, whereby the paradox of him denouncing belief by believing in the non-existence of said deity makes him somewhat hypocritical.

    Fine. I am of the belief that fairies and their magical sky daddy Allah do not exist. Where is my cookie?

    Grouchy  what is the  good reason for picking up an innocent girl  as Osama  bin Laden?    

  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #68 - January 20, 2012, 09:42 PM

    Quote
    The religious/agnostic are merely playing a word play here just to corner the atheist in this double standard position, whereby the paradox of him denouncing belief by believing in the non-existence of said deity makes him somewhat hypocritical.


    Yes indeed.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #69 - January 21, 2012, 12:14 AM



    Belief in the non-existence of gods? Belief in reality without gods?




    How can u believe in non existence of Something ?>??

    how is that even possible logically Huh?

    Atheism is not a belief and everyone knows this, atheism says THERE IS NO GOD it is a negation and a negation is not a belief.

    /thread

  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #70 - January 21, 2012, 12:16 AM

    Are we really arguing over the semantics here? Lack of belief does not constitute as a belief. Is it really hard to grasp this?

    The religious/agnostic are merely playing a word play here just to corner the atheist in this double standard position, whereby the paradox of him denouncing belief by believing in the non-existence of said deity makes him somewhat hypocritical.

    Fine. I am of the belief that fairies and their magical sky daddy Allah do not exist. Where is my cookie?



    i second, thrid, and fourth this... i also demand a cookie!!
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #71 - January 21, 2012, 01:26 AM

    Belief in a creator is quite a logical hypothesis, when not coupled with other religious baggage.
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #72 - January 21, 2012, 01:27 AM

    Why is everyone asserting their opinion in this thread as fact? STFU.
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #73 - January 21, 2012, 01:31 AM

    Why are you not taking your own advice? parrot

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #74 - January 21, 2012, 01:33 AM

    It was a brilliant two-post irony combo.

    Against the ruin of the world, there
    is only one defense: the creative act.

    -- Kenneth Rexroth
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #75 - January 21, 2012, 01:45 AM

    Why are you not taking your own advice? parrot


    sorry if I do not precede my posts with "I think that" before every fucking post. Though I definitely don't think anyone is right or wrong per se when it comes to this mindless argument.
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #76 - January 21, 2012, 01:46 AM

    Why is everyone asserting their opinion in this thread as fact? STFU.

    sorry if I do not precede my posts with "I think that" before every fucking post.


    Against the ruin of the world, there
    is only one defense: the creative act.

    -- Kenneth Rexroth
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #77 - January 21, 2012, 01:50 AM

    Am I supposed to derive meaning from this non-sequitor, particularly when most people in this thread are bashing other people for believing the opposite of their opinion?
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #78 - January 21, 2012, 01:57 AM

    Belief in a creator is quite a logical hypothesis, when not coupled with other religious baggage.


    i wouldn't go as far as to say that belief in a creator is logical. although i would agree that the possibility of an intelligent agent or agents having something to do with the existence of our universe to be quite a logical hypothesis. i also think there's a negative connotation associated with the word 'god' (i'd be happy if we disposed of the word altogether). if the 'creator' argument wasn't aligned with the religionists, i wonder how much popular such a hypothesis would be among some atheists who hate the idea.

    but yeah most atheists don't have a postive beleif that a 'god' does not exist, they simply lack belief in one.


    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #79 - January 21, 2012, 02:01 AM

    Am I supposed to derive meaning from this non-sequitor

    Obviously not if you think it's a non sequitur.  Had you picked up on the irony, however.....

    Against the ruin of the world, there
    is only one defense: the creative act.

    -- Kenneth Rexroth
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #80 - January 21, 2012, 02:36 AM

    Quote
    Atheism is a belief. Its an invention. God is truth. It is natural to believe in God.


    We're born Atheists, our parents pass down religion based on what their parents taught. And our parents make us care about God.

    Quote
    Spirituality is organic. Whereas it takes effort to believe in the non-existence of God. It is sensible and intelligent to believe in God.


    It's only intelligent to be skeptical unless you have proof outside your state of mind.

     
    Quote
    Atheists are the ones who spend so much of effort in going their way out to demolish theist claims


    Yes because Atheist go door to door, giving out pamphlets and booklets trying to get people to leave. We may take a kick out of debating believers, but we're not going to actively point a gun to anyone's head saying you need to leave your religion. It's only asshole religions we tend to complain about, not too many atheists would have a problem with Buddhism for example.

    Quote
    Atheism is not a reflex, it is a conditioning, it is a learnt habit, it is a state of mind that is built by those whose mind has boundaries and cannot be perceptive of higher truth.


    Again when we were children we didn't really care about the idea of God. It was just kinda pounded into our brains.
    Quote
    There is no such thing as belief in God. Know God or do not. Admit through actual experience and the knowing, or do not. Do not say you know for sure that God does not exist, for how can you establish with absolutely certainty that there definitely is no being who knows everything.


    You're right we don't know therefore we're not going to believe in something 'JUST IN CASE' just like we're not going to burn people for being witches 'JUST IN CASE'.

    Quote
    Atheism is a state of mind. Different people have different natures. Some people are more intelligent than others. Some parts of a subject and some subjects themselves entirely are more complex and advanced than others. Maybe you nor your ancestors have evolved to be able to prode and take deep stabs at the Mysterious.

     

    No intelligence is based on fact. Just because something is mysterious and you don't know about it and don't believe in it does not make you stupid. Example, back in Europe when the plague killed 1/3 of the population, they didn't know it was being spread by rats. Now based on 'mysterious' superstition they killed all the cats because they thought they were associated with witches. So ' JUST IN CASE' better kill all those cats. Now you see this tragedy wouldn't have happens if people just stepped back from their beliefs and analyzed what was going on.

    Quote
    Maybe it is you who lacks the ability to attain awareness and pierce beyond the norm through higher states of consciousness.

    Maybe this thing seems absurd only to you because you cannot understand it. You lack the ability.


    You don't understand therefore you ask questions, most religions punish you for asking questions and challenging them, just as you are doing to us.

    Quote
    No one loses being unable to taste the sweetness of benign knowledge except themselves. God does not lose. God does not cease to exist.


    Apparently he does since people are praying to him and maybe only a very very select few see some kind of miracle. Then when god doesn't answer their prayers they just say. ' Oh it was meant to happen, god knows best haha' Yeah nice.

    Quote
    You cannot speak with authority. Because you are only you. Your words have meanings only inside your head. And your definition of reason is only valid to you.


    Same with religious people. All of the hundreds of religions.

    Quote
    What weight does your opinion hold? If you were eliminated what affect does it have on the cosmos? Does absolute reality alter because of some humans' inability to percieve things to which they have not attuned themselves to?


    Look we weren't alive when the universe was formed and shit was going on millions of years ago. We had no consciousness, so we really shouldn't worry about these things for the future.

    Quote
    The Atheist could be a Theist. The Theist could be an Atheist. What is your state of mind in one place and what is it like in the other?

    The feeling of certainty and righteousness is out of fear of being false. It is due to ego.

    What is the best measure of certainty? Evidence for one thing does not apply to all others. If you demand scientific evidence for God maybe you're not acting on intelligence and being smart, maybe you're the one who is actually stupid.


    Personally as an agnostic it's not god I have a problem with. It's his asshole followers I can't stand who feel that because they are in 'god's good graces' they can poop over everyone else. And since Islam especially has based it's authenticity and entire existence on pooping on everyone else's belief's/ lifestyle is why we are upset and ended up here. :3

    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #81 - January 22, 2012, 03:01 PM

    If you think "god" is so vague a notion, why call yourself an atheist? Why not a theist?

    Because I'm an atheist.

    If you say you lack a belief in X, surely you must have some idea of what X is referring to....otherwise you're not really saying anything.

    Nuh uh. God can mean several thousand things of hugely varying description. It would be assumptive of me to take for granted what you mean.

    If I were to assume you were speaking of a specific monotheistic god and challenge that you could retreat into pantheism territory, for example. Use of the word god is problematic and if it isn't defined up front the believer can flip-flop back and forth between harmless abstract philosophical construct and specific religious dogma at whim. In order for there to be a discussion of any depth, define your terms. The word grants you too much room to manoeuvre.

    Belief in the non-existence of gods? Belief in reality without gods?

    Belief in reality isn't exclusive to atheists.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #82 - January 22, 2012, 03:19 PM

    Quote
    Belief in reality isn't exclusive to atheists.

    It's not even applicable to all atheists.

    Against the ruin of the world, there
    is only one defense: the creative act.

    -- Kenneth Rexroth
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #83 - January 22, 2012, 03:25 PM

    Xact

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #84 - January 22, 2012, 06:30 PM

    It's not even applicable to all atheists.


    Are you making the claim that there are some atheists that have no beliefs whatsoever? That everything they hold to be true, they know to be absolutely true without any assumptions or uncertainty?

    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #85 - January 22, 2012, 07:49 PM

    I think he is saying that even atheists can be delusional about reality.

    Grouchy  what is the  good reason for picking up an innocent girl  as Osama  bin Laden?    

  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #86 - January 22, 2012, 08:07 PM

    Are you making the claim that there are some atheists that have no beliefs whatsoever? That everything they hold to be true, they know to be absolutely true without any assumptions or uncertainty?

    There could be such atheists out there, why not but, no, I was not making that claim.  As Grouchy pointed out, I was saying that there are atheists that have no belief in a thing called "reality".

    Essentially, I'm reasserting the point that atheists have nothing in common except for a lack of belief in a deity.

    Against the ruin of the world, there
    is only one defense: the creative act.

    -- Kenneth Rexroth
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #87 - January 22, 2012, 08:10 PM

    Quote
    Are you making the claim that there are some atheists that have no beliefs whatsoever? That everything they hold to be true, they know to be absolutely true without any assumptions or uncertainty?

    There could be such atheists out there

    I believe they can be called gnostic-atheists.

    Against the ruin of the world, there
    is only one defense: the creative act.

    -- Kenneth Rexroth
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