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Theme Changer

 Topic: sufism.meditation?

 (Read 12563 times)
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  • Re: sufism.meditation?
     Reply #30 - May 09, 2010, 09:36 PM

    The tailor: The last time i was sitting with sufis i got a feeling they are kinda buddists i really loved that..


    Peace Kimo,

    Yes, there are a lot of similarities in between the two traditions. In fact, the variations in Buddhism parallel the variations of Sufi practice. In my experience, Buddhism is (often) ostensibly a practice that concerns the denial of selfhood, annihilation into the Unity of Creation -- and Sufism certainly has this aspect. The idea is that the self is an illusion, a construct of society, biology, attachments, physics and chemistry -- and that the only real aspect of selfhood is action, the things we do. When we grasp this through Buddhist practice, we attain a kind of enlightened understanding and become at peace with our peculiar station.
     
    In Sufism, the movement to grasping this is known as the "greater jihad" -- and is associated with matyrdom in the verse (4:74):
    "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Those who fight in the way of Allah,
    martyred or victorious , on him We shall bestow a vast reward (Qur’an 4:74)"

    But I'd argue that Sufi practice goes a little further than my experience of Buddhism, in that there is a God at the end of this self denial: and so, after this denial or martyrdom of the self, the self "re-forms" and reaches a "victory" of encountering that Divinity. It's a little bit less nihilist in that regard.

    That said, I think that many forms of Buddhism end up with the same proposition of Divine victory -- particularly in the Mahayana tradition, with its very ornate cosmologies of Buddhas and planes of existence.

    I think in a very real sense, the practice of either Sufism or Buddhism (or both!) in the right way will end up in the same space. I still do the occasional Buddhist chant along with my salat ...

    Love and Light,

    The Tailor


    The Divisions of Love, second album by my Cabbalacore band, the Friends of Design, out now:

    https://vimeo.com/110528857
  • Re: sufism.meditation?
     Reply #31 - May 09, 2010, 09:42 PM


    The way I see things there is nothing controversial about the statement above.

    You are speaking of apostasy form materialist dogma or something similar I guess?


    Right. But maybe even more than that -- in a sense, to all dogma, including my own statement Smiley Wittgenstein has this lovely statement at the end of his Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus (a rather important book in philosophy and logic that also has a peculiar spiritual) where he talks about all his reasoning being a kind of ladder that can then be thrown away after ascent.

    The Divisions of Love, second album by my Cabbalacore band, the Friends of Design, out now:

    https://vimeo.com/110528857
  • Re: sufism.meditation?
     Reply #32 - May 09, 2010, 09:47 PM

    I can kick things off by saying something controversial: these days, more than ever, apostasy is a prerequisite to entering Sufism.


    Enjoy roasting in Hell, The Tailor!  grin12

    Oh and good to see you again my friend  Afro
  • Re: sufism.meditation?
     Reply #33 - May 09, 2010, 09:50 PM

    Right. But maybe even more than that -- in a sense, to all dogma, including my own statement Smiley


    I love you!
  • Re: sufism.meditation?
     Reply #34 - May 09, 2010, 10:09 PM


    Yes, there are a lot of similarities in between the two traditions. In fact, the variations in Buddhism parallel the variations of Sufi practice. In my experience, Buddhism is (often) ostensibly a practice that concerns the denial of selfhood, annihilation into the Unity of Creation -- and Sufism certainly has this aspect. The idea is that the self is an illusion, a construct of society, biology, attachments, physics and chemistry -- and that the only real aspect of selfhood is action, the things we do. When we grasp this through Buddhist practice, we attain a kind of enlightened understanding and become at peace with our peculiar station.

    But I'd argue that Sufi practice goes a little further than my experience of Buddhism, in that there is a God at the end of this self denial: and so, after this denial or martyrdom of the self, the self "re-forms" and reaches a "victory" of encountering that Divinity. It's a little bit less nihilist in that regard.


    Well, in Hinduism and Buddhism you have the idea of the primal Atman or Self, which is what sufis might call God. And there's also moksha, or liberation, which is the point at which the individual self is dissolved and the person attains enlightenment.

    It's interesting that different and largely unconnected religious traditions can develop the same ideas and reach essentially the same conclusions.
  • Re: sufism.meditation?
     Reply #35 - May 09, 2010, 10:29 PM

    And I have a question if you don't mind.

    As far as Islam (or Sufism) is concerned what are the implications of the fact that in Islam Jesus did not die on the cross?
    I read recently that even Hegel was aware of the implications of Jesus dying on the cross as far as Christianity is concerned and I found it really interesting.

    If its not too much to ask could you tell me what is your take on Hagar, the Egyptian slave who gave Abraham his first son?


    Wow. That last question really tripped me out, as I've been meditating on Hagar for about a month now, with some wild consequences ...

    Briefly, regarding Jesus not dying on the cross ... I actually don't have a problem with the crucifixion story and with "only seeming" to be crucified. I am a big fan of the Christian gnostic scriptures (e.g. the Nag Hammadi finds and the Gospel of Judas) -- in which we find the early Christian belief that Jesus "only seemed" to have died to parallel the Islamic. The clarification helps a lot, in the light of some bizarre later Islamic explanations: essentially it just means that a body was crucified, but the Truth embodied in Jesus returned to a plane of existence they called "Barbelo", Binah in Judaic Mysticism or the Womb (see the Bukhari hadiths relating the Womb to being a derivation from God's name and to verses regarding ties of kinship). Hegel's point holds here: if the meditation is on his bodily suffering, then we end up with a different kind of Christianity compared to the Gnostic form. If you like, to dwell on the physical suffering of the Christ is to conflate the Truth with a form of materialism: and therefore to participate in the crucifixion yourself as a materialist spectator! That is to say, Ahmed Deedat crucifies by means of his conflation of pure materialism with Truth.

    That said, there is also an important symbolism to the crucifixion itself, that I absolutely affirm. A material body of Jesus does die on that cross. I think even within the orthodox gospels, you see it very clearly -- the material crucifixion is shown to be illusion and the Christ appears again to the women first -- and then again later, in different, unrecognizable forms.  

    The crucifixion is very esoteric stuff actually. A really good place to start for a parallel Gnostic perspective is the Gospel of Judas. Don't read the introductory scholarship material -- it is better to read it remembering your training in Islam.

    Regarding Hagar ... What do you want to know? I accept the standard Islamic narrations on her story -- as well as those of the Torah. I think she is the mother of a great nation -- but one that has a wild and unruly character.

    She is the slave girl of Sara, the favoured wife of Ibrahim. Female slaves are significant in scripture: in Qur'an and Torah, a slavegirl is always a kind of transmitting conduit of a particular theomorphic owner. What does that mean? Imagine Sara is a state of mind that is completely receptive to Prophetic Truth -- a state of mind that has somehow "locked onto" the Truth of Prophecy, so that it perceives the world and all its signs in a sort of Divine, enlightened state. But it doesn't give birth to a son: it doesn't actually generate a form of inner Prophecy. Instead, this is done through use of an alien technology, an alien system of perception -- to assist. If you know my work, this is rather similar to me bringing in my Zizek and my Deleuze and my Derrida -- alien philosophies to Islam -- to assist my inner Sara in creating my own inner Prophetic understanding of Qur'an. Some new and strange and creative form of Prophecy from a given Prophecy. Reinterpretation, revival, revitalization of the Divine message, so to speak. That's Hagar -- the slave girl as a differentiating technology of reading/generation.

    And Ismail is what happens from that.

    You might have heard me say that the Qur'an (and all holy scripture) is a woman. Each scripture bares the same message, but in a differentiated script: the feminine is a multiplicity after all, not a unity as such (although is unity, a single feminine anima at the level of ultimate meaning). There will always be a tension between from one form of scripture and its differentiated helper ... hence Sara's jealousy toward Hagar. It is not a malevolent jealousy, but rather a natural literary -- generative -- tension between a space of perception and a "line of flight" (to be Deleuzian) into a new creative space. Literally, Hagar's journey is one of spiritual exile, negotiation and reconstitution. A journey that is still to be made for Islam as a whole, actually. For me, I think Hagar is still wandering the desert between the mountains with the expired unruly infant Ismail, desperate for the establishment of a stability of perception ... her state of absolute spiritual anxiety IS the anxiety that constitutes Islam right at this moment Smiley

    Because I've been thinking a lot recently about what I can do to help the ummah, I've been thinking about Hagar and her panicked flight. Currently I've retreated quite a bit from mainstream Islam (after a big bout of da'wah) -- I'm sort of just enjoying being with Sara (who was still looking 20 even when she reached 100, a kind of Houri/Shekhinah embodiment). But I might need to set up another Cube of Love anon with my Hagarite son ...

    Apologies for the flowery response Smiley

    Love and Light,

    The Tailor




    The Divisions of Love, second album by my Cabbalacore band, the Friends of Design, out now:

    https://vimeo.com/110528857
  • Re: sufism.meditation?
     Reply #36 - May 09, 2010, 10:31 PM

    I love you!


    Right back at you, habib Smiley

    TT

    The Divisions of Love, second album by my Cabbalacore band, the Friends of Design, out now:

    https://vimeo.com/110528857
  • Re: sufism.meditation?
     Reply #37 - May 11, 2010, 03:51 AM

    Yeah ateapotist. Don't get me wrong, if Islam really was sufism it wouldn't be a problem at all would it? Music, intoxication, pacifism etc. It would be as harmless as Hare Krishnas or a sect of Buddhists. But I can't help thinking there is something deceptive about it. How do you square a message of universal peace, love, equality of all religions and people with "La ilaha illa Allah, Muhammadar Rasul Allah"?


    Where do people get the idea that sufism is pacifist?  Because some new-age influenced self-proclaimed sufi groups in the US and some other western countries say they are?  But most sufis aren't and never have been pacifists. Some of the famous leaders of Muslim resistances against colonialism and all that were sufis.  I was a sufi; them people are not pacifists at all, nor do they believe in any such things as universal blah blah.  It was very clearly taught in my tariqats that Islam is the final and only true religion, etc.  

    Among many of them was enthusiastic support for various jihad movements.  Music and intoxication - haram according to the shariah.  Many of them believe, and probably with good cause, that the message and meaning of Rumi has been distorted by western non Muslims who know diddly squat about Islam but make a good lot of money publishing "interpretations" of his poems, but even if it wasn't (and people forget that Rumi was a Hanafi jurist, which indicates some degree of orthodoxy, though apparently there are no records of his rulings as a mufti etc), it doesn't matter, b/c he is not the end all be all of sufism in the eyes of many sufis. Abdal Qadir al Jilani is; only "advanced seekers" are allowed, in many tariqats, to even read Rumi in translation.  It's not a bunch of nice hippies with their beads sitting around digging on Rumi or something... of course as blind followers, they must ask their "dear beloved shaykh" what his opinion and teaching "and the teachings of our ancestors" is on whatever poem by Rumi or writing by al Jilani and so on.  Critical thought, questioning, etc. - haram yaakhi.  

    But subjugation of women, the inferiority of non-Muslims, racial hierarchies (with Quraysh and the so called syeds being at the top of course) and so on they all believe in as part of the wonders of muhammad and his lord, huuuuuuuuu allahuuuuuuu.  You know, as a woman you are growing as a lover of muhammad by being subservient to your husband and wearing black all the time, that sort of shit.  Please.  The idea that sufis are "the nice Muslims" and "the ones you want to have living next door" is probably the greatest scam of sufism in the modern age.  I would rather, in many ways, deal with a salafi who is at least honest about thinking you are a piece of shit or a deviant or whatever, than sufis who talk like this about other Muslims & non-Muslims behind closed doors but in the public eye talk about "love" shit like that.   Then, of course, there is the spiritual abuse that is rife in any cult of personality -- which many tariqats are (the cult of the personality of the shaykh or pir).  Anyone from the subcontinent or north Africa I think has seen some of this bullshit in action. 

    By the way, if someone wants to invent some universal love and brotherhood and spinning in circles and feeling good and call it sufism, I am all for that because I support the watering down of the message of Islam, but I cannot stand to see the true history - and current happenings - within the world of tasawuf hidden away or ignored in favor of this more palatable image of the sufis as "the nice Muslims."  IMO, if you're going to take on the names, the clothes, the qasidat / naats and so on, you need to take it all on and recognize that sufism - the shaykhs, the tariqats as institutions in the past and the seekers - have had just as much a part to play in the development of Islamic patriarchal structures, the shariah, and so forth as anyone else. After all, salafism and even wahabism are relatively recent in Islamic history, but sufism -- it isn't... and it's not like 15th century Ottoman Empire was some enlightened groovy place for women or whatever.

    I have seen much ugliness in the world of tasawuf, in the name of this love of the mo-meister or big Al or the service of the shaykhs, even more than I ever saw among the crazy ass salafis I knew.  Last year, there was a brief burst of people speaking out and recognizing this among some western sufis, but I don't know what became of that.

    [this space for rent]
  • Re: sufism.meditation?
     Reply #38 - May 11, 2010, 03:52 AM

    I can kick things off by saying something controversial: these days, more than ever, apostasy is a prerequisite to entering Sufism.


    LOL being a sufi was a prerequisite for my apostasy.  Nollahu asghar. 

    [this space for rent]
  • Re: sufism.meditation?
     Reply #39 - May 11, 2010, 03:54 AM

    Well, in Hinduism and Buddhism you have the idea of the primal Atman or Self, which is what sufis might call God. And there's also moksha, or liberation, which is the point at which the individual self is dissolved and the person attains enlightenment.

    It's interesting that different and largely unconnected religious traditions can develop the same ideas and reach essentially the same conclusions.


    Possibly because beliefs in invisible friends are not as unique as its various practitioners claim it is. 

    [this space for rent]
  • Re: sufism.meditation?
     Reply #40 - May 11, 2010, 09:20 AM

    Wow. That last question really tripped me out, as I've been meditating on Hagar for about a month now, with some wild consequences ...

    Briefly, regarding Jesus not dying on the cross ... I actually don't have a problem with the crucifixion story and with "only seeming" to be crucified. I am a big fan of the Christian gnostic scriptures (e.g. the Nag Hammadi finds and the Gospel of Judas) -- in which we find the early Christian belief that Jesus "only seemed" to have died to parallel the Islamic. The clarification helps a lot, in the light of some bizarre later Islamic explanations: essentially it just means that a body was crucified, but the Truth embodied in Jesus returned to a plane of existence they called "Barbelo", Binah in Judaic Mysticism or the Womb (see the Bukhari hadiths relating the Womb to being a derivation from God's name and to verses regarding ties of kinship). Hegel's point holds here: if the meditation is on his bodily suffering, then we end up with a different kind of Christianity compared to the Gnostic form. If you like, to dwell on the physical suffering of the Christ is to conflate the Truth with a form of materialism: and therefore to participate in the crucifixion yourself as a materialist spectator! That is to say, Ahmed Deedat crucifies by means of his conflation of pure materialism with Truth.

    That said, there is also an important symbolism to the crucifixion itself, that I absolutely affirm. A material body of Jesus does die on that cross. I think even within the orthodox gospels, you see it very clearly -- the material crucifixion is shown to be illusion and the Christ appears again to the women first -- and then again later, in different, unrecognizable forms.  

    The crucifixion is very esoteric stuff actually. A really good place to start for a parallel Gnostic perspective is the Gospel of Judas. Don't read the introductory scholarship material -- it is better to read it remembering your training in Islam.

    Regarding Hagar ... What do you want to know? I accept the standard Islamic narrations on her story -- as well as those of the Torah. I think she is the mother of a great nation -- but one that has a wild and unruly character.

    She is the slave girl of Sara, the favoured wife of Ibrahim. Female slaves are significant in scripture: in Qur'an and Torah, a slavegirl is always a kind of transmitting conduit of a particular theomorphic owner. What does that mean? Imagine Sara is a state of mind that is completely receptive to Prophetic Truth -- a state of mind that has somehow "locked onto" the Truth of Prophecy, so that it perceives the world and all its signs in a sort of Divine, enlightened state. But it doesn't give birth to a son: it doesn't actually generate a form of inner Prophecy. Instead, this is done through use of an alien technology, an alien system of perception -- to assist. If you know my work, this is rather similar to me bringing in my Zizek and my Deleuze and my Derrida -- alien philosophies to Islam -- to assist my inner Sara in creating my own inner Prophetic understanding of Qur'an. Some new and strange and creative form of Prophecy from a given Prophecy. Reinterpretation, revival, revitalization of the Divine message, so to speak. That's Hagar -- the slave girl as a differentiating technology of reading/generation.

    And Ismail is what happens from that.

    You might have heard me say that the Qur'an (and all holy scripture) is a woman. Each scripture bares the same message, but in a differentiated script: the feminine is a multiplicity after all, not a unity as such (although is unity, a single feminine anima at the level of ultimate meaning). There will always be a tension between from one form of scripture and its differentiated helper ... hence Sara's jealousy toward Hagar. It is not a malevolent jealousy, but rather a natural literary -- generative -- tension between a space of perception and a "line of flight" (to be Deleuzian) into a new creative space. Literally, Hagar's journey is one of spiritual exile, negotiation and reconstitution. A journey that is still to be made for Islam as a whole, actually. For me, I think Hagar is still wandering the desert between the mountains with the expired unruly infant Ismail, desperate for the establishment of a stability of perception ... her state of absolute spiritual anxiety IS the anxiety that constitutes Islam right at this moment Smiley

    Because I've been thinking a lot recently about what I can do to help the ummah, I've been thinking about Hagar and her panicked flight. Currently I've retreated quite a bit from mainstream Islam (after a big bout of da'wah) -- I'm sort of just enjoying being with Sara (who was still looking 20 even when she reached 100, a kind of Houri/Shekhinah embodiment). But I might need to set up another Cube of Love anon with my Hagarite son ...

    Apologies for the flowery response Smiley

    Love and Light,

    The Tailor






    Man. That was brilliant Smiley

    Hope your book comes out soon, insha Allah Smiley

    The language of the mob was only the language of public opinion cleansed of hypocrisy and restraint - Hannah Arendt.
  • Re: sufism.meditation?
     Reply #41 - May 11, 2010, 10:35 AM

    Where do people get the idea that sufism is pacifist?  Because some new-age influenced self-proclaimed sufi groups in the US and some other western countries say they are?  But most sufis aren't and never have been pacifists.


    I know, that is what I said. Its all dawah.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: sufism.meditation?
     Reply #42 - May 11, 2010, 12:04 PM

    Where do people get the idea that sufism is pacifist?  Because some new-age influenced self-proclaimed sufi groups in the US and some other western countries say they are?  But most sufis aren't and never have been pacifists. Some of the famous leaders of Muslim resistances against colonialism and all that were sufis.  I was a sufi; them people are not pacifists at all,

    I wasn't a sufi and know very little about them.  I was a Deobandi and tolerated the Salafis but was strongly immune to the Sufis because I knew they were deviant (too much bid'aa!  Cheesy).

    Regading pacifism, if you think of it in evolutionary terms, religions that are truly pacifist are likely to die out pretty quickly.  Surprise, surprise, Cheesy
    If a religion is truly pacifist, then it needs something truly special in other departments to survive.

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: sufism.meditation?
     Reply #43 - May 11, 2010, 09:22 PM

    Possibly because beliefs in invisible friends are not as unique as its various practitioners claim it is. 


    I'd beg to differ. In the case of the dharmic religions, while they do contain superstitious nonsense, they're not really predicated on the belief in a theistic god, or an 'invisible friend.'

    Rather, they are more like mystical philosophies, which, like all philosophies, have at least some degree of truth in them.

    What's particularly interesting about these philosophies is their inquiry into the human psyche, and a lot of what they have to say on said subject certainly has its validity. For example, the cause of dukkha/suffering being attachment, and in order to free oneself from suffering one must disenthrall oneself from one's desires and attachments.

    I find myself agreeing with Sam Harris on this. That is, it is indeed possible to have a transcendent experience through meditation and following some of the practices of the eastern philosophies.

    A lot of atheists reject the idea from the outset, as they associate it with religion and therefore believe that it's nonsense. Nevertheless, there's nothing that precludes a non-mystic or atheist from practicing meditation and benefitting from it.

    I myself once had a rather strange experience with it, like a lucid dream. It's something that's happened a few times with me but I only fully pursued it once. The result was a rather strange and frightening thing that felt like an 'out of body' experience, although I don't believe that that's actually what happened.

    In any case, it is something that begins with the feeling of oneself floating, but in motion, as if spinning or moving from side to side and its frequency gets faster and faster until it feels like a continuous, fluid thing. It feels like you're being pulled out of yourself, moving upwards as if coming out of the top of your head.

    Eventually, it gets to the point where you feel like you have finally left your body, and all you can 'see' is blackness. Eventually, I saw an image of a room form in my mind. It formed in a very strange way, as if I was looking up, submerged under water and seeing the ripples on the surface of the water.

    When the 'ripples' subsided, I could then see the image. It was like a messy room, with some object in the middle that stood out from other things, as it was an intense blue colour.

    I was fully conscious during all of this, and I thought it was pretty freaky, so I woke myself up. It was strange when I did, as I noticed I was completely paralysed for about a few seconds. My eyes were open, and all I could do was see. But eventually, something just 'clicked' and I woke up fully, able to move.

    Most likely what I saw really was nothing more than an image created by my mind, but I was fully conscious during all of it. At the same time, I remember having a kind of equanimity for a few days afterwards, a feeling of peace.

    In any case, it makes me think that the human brain is capable of doing some rather interesting things and so I wouldn't be at all surprised if someone who spends years in meditation has some kind of transcendent experience.
  • Re: sufism.meditation?
     Reply #44 - May 11, 2010, 10:32 PM

    I wasn't a sufi and know very little about them.  I was a Deobandi and tolerated the Salafis but was strongly immune to the Sufis because I knew they were deviant (too much bid'aa!  Cheesy).

    Regading pacifism, if you think of it in evolutionary terms, religions that are truly pacifist are likely to die out pretty quickly.  Surprise, surprise, Cheesy
    If a religion is truly pacifist, then it needs something truly special in other departments to survive.


    Buddhism is a pretty pacifist religion, and not only does it still survive, but it is also attracting many converts.
  • Re: sufism.meditation?
     Reply #45 - May 11, 2010, 10:41 PM

    errrrrrrrrr..  sufism.....meditation...mental masturbation.. All rubbish..


    Eat well.. sleep well .. think well.. do good.. be good.. and drink a bit of beer or wine.,
    may be have a companion.. girlfriend/boyfriend ...wife/husband  could also help a bit to attain that sufi...meditative.. mindset.  you will feel as good as that sufi... meditation masturbation Borgs...  



    Damn looks like donkey Piss .. but good beer.. lol..

    with best wishes to you all guys..
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: sufism.meditation?
     Reply #46 - May 11, 2010, 11:07 PM

    Buddhism is a pretty pacifist religion, and not only does it still survive, but it is also attracting many converts.

    The Buddhism meme is very good at keeping a firm grip on its followers.  It pretty much takes over the lives of its host to preserve itself.  You have to be fully dedicated to be a good Buddhist.  Cheesy

    I don't know the history of Buddhism, so I don't know how it managed to defend itself when conqeurers came to fight them and force them to convert.  Maybe, they were not always as pacifist as they are today.  Huh?

    Or maybe the fact that they kept themselves to themselves meant that they did not have many enemies. Huh?

    See this link article about memes and Buddhism.
    http://www.susanblackmore.co.uk/Articles/Chan02.htm

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: sufism.meditation?
     Reply #47 - May 12, 2010, 01:26 AM

    Well not all Buddhists are strictly religious. Sri Lanka has a majority Buddhist population and a minority Hindu population and it is in the middle of a civil war. The samurai class was established in Japan during the shogunates and they were Zen Buddhists despite having to fight. Some countries in southeast Asia have a large Buddhist population, but they under a dictatorship meaning their rights are limited, and if they violate them, then they get punished by the police (I'm assuming they are also Buddhist).

    I do know during the Islamic invasions in India, Islam spread mainly spread to areas that had a large Buddhist population. Sindh, Kashmir, and Afghanistan(?) were largely Buddhist yet they are presently predominantly Muslim areas. Bengal was also Buddhist too and it became largely Muslim too.
  • Re: sufism.meditation?
     Reply #48 - May 12, 2010, 07:33 AM

    errrrrrrrrr..  sufism.....meditation...mental masturbation.. All rubbish..


    Eat well.. sleep well .. think well.. do good.. be good.. and drink a bit of beer or wine.,
    may be have a companion.. girlfriend/boyfriend ...wife/husband  could also help a bit to attain that sufi...meditative.. mindset.  you will feel as good as that sufi... meditation masturbation Borgs...  

    (Clicky for piccy!)

    Damn looks like donkey Piss .. but good beer.. lol..

    with best wishes to you all guys..
    yeezevee


    A cold Corona with lime in it is heaven on earth
  • Re: sufism.meditation?
     Reply #49 - May 12, 2010, 05:42 PM

    Eat well.. sleep well .. think well.. do good.. be good.. and drink a bit of beer or wine.,
    may be have a companion.. girlfriend/boyfriend ...wife/husband  could also help a bit to attain that sufi...meditative.. mindset.  you will feel as good as that sufi... meditation masturbation Borgs...  


    I don't know about the meditation masturbation side of things ... but drinking a glass of red (or 2) with a special kinda lady (or 2) is very much my form of Sufi practice ... to quote a well known Sufi poet ...

    Cupbearer, it is morning, fill my cup with wine.
    Make haste, the heavenly sphere knows no delay.
    Before this transient world is ruined and destroyed,
    ruin me with a beaker of rose-tinted wine.
    The sun of the wine dawns in the east of the goblet.
    Pursue life's pleasure, abandon dreams,
    and the day when the wheel makes pitchers of my clay,
    take care to fill my skull with wine!
    We are not men for piety, penance and preaching
    but rather give us a sermon in praise of a cup of clear wine.
    Wine-worship is a noble task, O Hafiz;
    rise and advance firmly to your noble task.



    The Divisions of Love, second album by my Cabbalacore band, the Friends of Design, out now:

    https://vimeo.com/110528857
  • Re: sufism.meditation?
     Reply #50 - May 13, 2010, 12:32 AM

     Cheesy
  • Re: sufism.meditation?
     Reply #51 - January 09, 2012, 10:32 AM

    well let us pull this thread up in to the reader's domain as News papers flash on and off on sufis and their shrines., on top of that  there are so many Sufi characters  across the globe from Algeria to Azerbaijan and Iran to Indonesia., it is good to learn about these folks and their contributions to Islam and the society around them.

    So news flashes Devotees throng Bhitai’s shrine

    well this is that Bhitai’s shrine

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q13aj6SD1Nw

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRUL1U4gQh0

    Quote
    Shah Abdul Latif Bhittai (also referred to by the honorifics Lakhino Latif, Latif Ghot, Bhittai, and Bhitt Jo Shah) (1689 – 1752)(Sindhi: شاھ عبدالطيف ڀٽائيِ, Urdu: ,شاہ عبداللطیف بھٹائی) was a Sindhi Sufi scholar, mystic, saint, poet, and musician. He is widely considered to be one of the greatest poets of the Sindhi language. His collected poems were assembled in the compilation Shah Jo Risalo, which exists in numerous versions and has been translated to English, Urdu, and other languages. His work frequently has been compared to that of Rūmī: Seyyed Hossein Nasr, Professor of Islamic studies at George Washington University, described Shah Latif as a "direct emanation Rūmī's spirituality in the Indian world."


    well that is from Wiki and  that is what it is.. let us learn bit more about him in the next post... I was always fascinated by Sufis..  but one guy hit me very hard on that subject with these words
    Quote
    Reforming Islam is an exercise in futility.  It is impossible and it will frustrate the efforts of those who try it.  By trying to reform Islam you validate it.  This was what Rumi and other benighted Muslim sears did.  Persians were more sophisticated and had a richer culture than their Arab conquerors. They could not stomach the absurdities of the primitive religion that was imposed on them. Not daring to reject it sulla pena di morte, they used their genius to reinterpret it and gave esoteric meanings to its blatantly asinine and banal teachings.  They donned that brute with silken philosophies, and masked its ugly face with borrowed mysticism.  Thus, they fooled themselves, mislead others and breathed a new life into the fetid corpse of this Arab cult. They envisioned a mirage in the barren desert of Islam and gave to the gullible false hopes.


    Question is ., is he right or wrong??


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: sufism.meditation?
     Reply #52 - January 09, 2012, 09:03 PM

    Question is ., is he right or wrong??


    He is right.

    The Divisions of Love, second album by my Cabbalacore band, the Friends of Design, out now:

    https://vimeo.com/110528857
  • Re: sufism.meditation?
     Reply #53 - May 31, 2012, 11:49 AM

    So I was reading ghazali.org  I didn't know that Al-Ghazali wrote something on Quran, apparently it is "Jawahir al- Qur’ān," translated as "THE JEWELS OF THE QUR’ĀN"_AL-GHAZALI’S THEORY". Question is what did he write on it?  Did he read Quran??  Was the present Quran same as what he read??  So I am trying to find answers for that. One of the fellow who translated that book is Abul Quasem who did as a part of his dissertation with Professor W. Montgomery Watt. . A bit of that could be read at at this link and references from it.


    Mr. Abul Quasem writes
    Quote
    The first part of this English version of the book was prepared in Edinburgh in June, 1973 on completion of my doctoral studies in the ethics of al-Ghazali under the supervision of Professor W. Montgomery Watt. I should like to record my thanks to Mrs. Phyllis Graham for carefully going through the manuscript of that part and to Dr. Roger Card of the National University of Malaysia for reading the manuscript of the entire book and making some valuable suggestions. My thanks are also due to Mr. Syed Zulflida, Mr. Peter Mooney, Mr. Lee Gray and Mr. Moxie Craus of the National University of Malaysia for editing the manuscript and for reading the proofs.


    CONTENTS OF THE BOOK IN DETAIL

     
    In the name of God, Most Gracious, Ever Merciful

     

    All types of perfect praise belong to God alone, the Lord of all the worlds. May His blessings be on His prophet Muhammad, on all [members of] his family, and on all his companions)

    This section concerns the content of the book we have named the Jewels of the Qur’ān .

    Know (may God guide you to the right path!) that we have arranged this book in three parts: One on introductory matters, one on aims, and one on the matters connected with the aims.

    The first part which is on introductory matters comprises nineteen chapters:

    1. The Qur’ān is [like] an ocean which covers many types of jewels and valuables.

    2. The limiting of the aims of the Qur’ān and its valuables to six divisions of which three are important principles and three follow them and complete them.

    3. The explanation of these six divisions one by one. They branch off so that they become ten.

    4. The process by which all sciences branch off from these ten divisions. The sciences of the Qur’ān are divided into the science of the outer shell and the science of the inner jewels. An explanation of the grades of sciences.

    5. How the sciences of the ancients and the moderns branch off from the Qur’ān./[1]

    6. The meaning of the statement that the Qur’ān comprises red brimstone, the greatest antidote, the strongest musk, and all other valuables and pearls. This can only be known by one who knows the relationship between the visible world and the invisible world.

    7-The reasons why the entities of the invisible world are illustrated in the Qur’ān by means of similitudes derived from the visible world.

    8. The comprehension of the connection existing between the visible world and the invisible world.

    9. Analysis of the allegories underlying red brimstone, the greatest antidote, the strongest musk, aloe-wood, corundums, pearls, and so on.

    10. The benefit of employing these allegories.

    11. How some verses of the Qur’ān excel others when the whole of it is the speech of God (may He be exalted!).

    12. The secrets of the Sura of Opening (al-Fatiha) (Sura 1.) and how it comprises eight of the ten types of the valuables of the Qur’ān. The description of part of the meaning of “Most Gracious, Ever Merciful” in relation to the nature of animals.

    13. That the eight doors of Paradise are opened through the Sura of Opening (al-Fatiha) (Sura 1.)  and that it is the key to all of them.

    14. Why the Verse of the Throne (Ayat al-Kursi) (Qur’ān 2:255)  is regarded as the chief of Qur’ānic verses, and why it is nobler than the verses, “God bears witness” (Qur’ān 3:18) , “Proclaim: He is God, the Single” (Qur’ān 112:1) , the

    beginning of the Sura of Irons (awl al-Hadid) (Qur’ān 57:1-6) , the end of the Sura of the Gathering (a’khir al-Hashr) (Qur’ān 59:22-24) and all other verses.

    15. An investigation into the reason why the [value of the] Sura of Sincerity (Surat al-Ikhlas) (Sura 112) is equal to [the value of] a third part of the Qur’ān.

    16. Why the Sura of Ya Sin  (Sura 36 ) is regarded as the heart of the Qur’ān.

    17. Why the Prophet (may God bless him and greet him!) specified the Sura of Opening (al-fatiah, Sura 1) as the best sura of the Qur’ān and the Verse of the Throne (ayat al-kursi ) as the chief of the Qur’ānic verses, and why this was better than its opposite.

    18. The condition of the gnostics (al-’arifun). In this world they are as if in ‘a Paradise the breadth of which is greater than the heavens and the earth’; (Qur’ān 3:133) ‘the clusters of the fruits of their’ present ‘Paradise are near to gather’ (Qur’ān 69:23) and ‘are unfailing and unforbidden’. (Qur’ān 56:32-33)

    19. The secret reason for stringing the jewels of the Qur’ān on one string and its pearls on another.

    These are the nineteen chapters [which constitute the first part of the book].

    The second part deals with the aims, and comprises the pith of the Qur’ānic verses which are of two kinds. The first consists of the jewels which are the verses revealed especially concerning the essence of God (to Him belong glory and power), His attributes and works. This is the cognitive part (al-qism al-’ilmi)./ The second consists of the pearls which are verses on the description of the straight path (as-Sirat al-mustaqim) and verses which urge man to follow it. This is the practical part (al-qism al-’amali).

    A chapter explaining the reason why the Qur’ānic verses have been confined to this sum total.[2]

    M. Abul Quasem

    Kuala Lumpur, Dhu l-Hijja 1397 November 1977

     Clearly i have no idea what is there in that original Al-Ghazali's work but  Mr. Abul Quasem says  "The secret reason for stringing the jewels of the Qur’ān on one string and its pearls on another"
      and I have no idea what it means..
     

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
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