Be wary of a facebook campaign called "Support Alex Aan's Human Rights"

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- John_Durandal
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Be wary of a facebook campaign called "Support Alex Aan's Human Rights"
OP - February 05, 2012, 03:37 PM

In case you don't know the situation involving Alex Aan in Indonesia, he's an Atheist who got arrested in Indonesia for posting on Facebook that God does not exist.

Naturally, as an atheist who's involved with criticism of Islam, I wanted to get involved after some of my Facebook friends told me about this. I was forwarded to a Facebook campaign called "Support Alex Aan's Human Rights" which on the surface looks like a grouping of people trying to raise awareness of this person and get him free. It's not that at all.

After seeing some of the stuff on their wall though, it was curiously lacking of anything involving Alex Aan, and rather just pages saying that muslims are dirty pedophiles and terrorist, muslims are trying to take over the world, all that lovely stuff reminiscent of Pamela Geller, Geert Wilders, etc. They even highlighted a campaign from a neo-nazi in Belgium. I got into a few heated exchanges about this with the webmaster of the group, who condescendingly accused me of being either an evil multicultural liberal or muslim apologist :p. Now I'm not here to highlight personal drama, and I would have just forgotten about this, but I received pm's from disgruntled users on that board with the same issue. Apparently this group has zero interest in Alex Aan, and never made efforts to even contact his family, and told off various Indonesian human rights activist! Here's a list I received of the people they told off:

Quote
If you got the time, I recommend opening everything on that wall up to the beginning, and then start a search for comments by the following users:

Tim Berend (academic Indonesianist)
Karl Karnadi ("Indonesian Atheists")
Ken Aura Matahari (Amnesty International Australia)
Dani Kurniawan (possible bf of AA)
Tezzita Tris (very critical since the beginning)
Elly Koo Koo
Jeremias Backenh?rnchen
Jan Budweg

So this is just a warning, that certain activist groups for this person who does need our support are controlled by people with a different agenda. Thanks for your time.
- billy
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- Tripitaka ~ Closet Juice
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Re: Be wary of a facebook campaign called "Support Alex Aan's Human Rights"
Reply #1 - February 05, 2012, 03:44 PM

Thanks for the heads up on this, you do have to be aware of things like this.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
- John_Durandal
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Re: Be wary of a facebook campaign called "Support Alex Aan's Human Rights"
Reply #2 - February 05, 2012, 03:47 PM

In my naivete I didn't think these groups would label themselves human rights activist and use imagery reminiscent of Amnesty International...

Here's a sample of some stuff on their board:

Quote
Attention to Dog Lovers, according to Islamic teachings,
Take down the pictures, kill the dogs - or no angels will visit you

Sahih Al-Bukhari, Narrated by Abu Talha:
The Prophet said, "Angels do not enter a house which has either a dog or a picture in it."

Sahih Al-Bukhari, Narrated by 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:

What does this have to do with Alex Aan?
- nesrin
- Ex-Muslim
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Re: Be wary of a facebook campaign called "Support Alex Aan's Human Rights"
Reply #3 - February 05, 2012, 03:57 PM

Quote
What does this have to do with Alex Aan?

it doesn't.. unless Alex Aan is a dog, or an angel..

unfortunately there are the few that would try to distract the rest from the real issue,.. the term "troll" comes to mind..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV9vdUjuWxc
- John_Durandal
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Re: Be wary of a facebook campaign called "Support Alex Aan's Human Rights"
Reply #4 - February 05, 2012, 04:07 PM

If you want a good example of their lying, deceptive ways, go down to a post from January 29th titled "Thailand : Muslims behead a 9-year-old boy (WARNING: Disturbing Graphic Images)" where they try in vain to lie about a video about violence between a thai family actually being about muslim guerillas! Things like this give human rights campaigns in islamic countries a bad name.
- Garuda
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Re: Be wary of a facebook campaign called "Support Alex Aan's Human Rights"
Reply #5 - February 05, 2012, 08:09 PM

As can be easily seen on their FB wall, that group is definitely not about supporting Alex.
That is, if anyone ever bothers again to scroll down that far ;-)

On January 22, the admins posted the following request for information there:

„For those who have any info at all to share regarding the condition of Alex Aan in police custody, contact numbers for his family members in Indonesia, information related to the detainment or arrest of other Indonesian freethinkers or atheists, or any other related info, you can now do so by sending us an anonymous email at indonesianhumanrights@yahoo.com“

They got several replies to this on their FB wall in the next few days:

- A user named „Dani Kurniawan“ criticised their approach in this and two other threads there, asking for more direct support of Alex like getting him a lawyer, sending someone to see him in prison, etc. This person later identified himself to be the boyfriend of Alex, giving reasonable hints for the authenticity of this claim. In return, he just got bashed from the admins for not wearing a shirt on his (then) FB profile pic. The admins didn't even seem to know that bare chested pics on FB are a sort of code among Indonesian gays.

- A user named „Karl Karnadi“, who is the official spokesperson for the group „Indonesian Atheists“, posted a comment on January 22 about one of their contacts having visited Alex in prison. He also quoted Alex as not wanting this to turn into an anti-Muslim campaign, as this would not improve his situation. No serious answer from the admins, apparently they skipped that chance to contact Alex as well.

- A user named „Lani Santiara“ then posted the English translation of a longer report on that visit on January 22 as well. Still no reaction from those admins.

For the next few days, the admins kept on telling everybody how much they fear for the life of Alex, how sure they are that he is constantly being tortured, etc.

One of the Indonesian supporters of the campaign then posted a link on February 4 to an Indonesian newspaper article containing a pic of Alex during his talks with regional muslim representatives (LKAAM) in the police office (January 25). Again, this info was belittled by the admins, along the line of „you can't really see him in that pic, and it was already days ago, for all we know, he might be dead already“.

What I get from all this: These admins never cared about the well-being of Alex, they just use him as a pawn for their very own campaign. I cannot be anything but confused that apparently CEMB is still supporting that group on FB, even lending credibility to their, from my POV rather faulty, petition. Do people here really know who they are siding with on that case?

PS: As a new user, I just realized that I cannot post links here. Well, there have been several Indonesian news reports by now containing pictures of Alex after his arrest. He seems to be ok, although his left cheek looks fairly swollen in a picture taken directly after the attack and subsequent detention by local police. It is dated with January 19, Alex is still wearing his civil servant uniform in it that he most likely went to work in that day.
- kk
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Re: Be wary of a facebook campaign called "Support Alex Aan's Human Rights"
Reply #6 - February 18, 2012, 10:04 PM

Hi, i am an indonesian ex muslim, one of the admins of group suport alex aan's human rights. Before admins of that facebook group make their official response, I will make a comment

- A user named „Dani Kurniawan“ criticised their approach in this and two other threads there, asking for more direct support of Alex like getting him a lawyer, sending someone to see him in prison, etc. This person later identified himself to be the boyfriend of Alex, giving reasonable hints for the authenticity of this claim. In return, he just got bashed from the admins for not wearing a shirt on his (then) FB profile pic. The admins didn't even seem to know that bare chested pics on FB are a sort of code among Indonesian gays.

Take a look properly. He was being rude and disrespectful even to alex. and anybody can claimed as alex boyfriend. Watched that Dani Kurniawan openly said to public that he is alex aan boyfriend. Dont you understand that homosexuality is illegal in indonesia? why would somebody who really alex aan's boyfriend will put more danger to alex while he is already in jail?

And beside of that, do you think it is easy to get alex a lawyer or sending someone to see him in prison? Keep in mind, dealing with islam is a dangerous act.

- A user named „Karl Karnadi“, who is the official spokesperson for the group „Indonesian Atheists“, posted a comment on January 22 about one of their contacts having visited Alex in prison. He also quoted Alex as not wanting this to turn into an anti-Muslim campaign, as this would not improve his situation. No serious answer from the admins, apparently they skipped that chance to contact Alex as well.

Karl don't live in indonesia. He didn't get that info directly from alex.
Take a good look at this. In interviewed by Al Jazeera, alex never mention about this. Which is strange. Because that was a great moment to safe him from islamic threats! Rather than asked people not to criticized islam or said that he wanted to back to islam...he said that he wanted to leave indonesia because he doesnt feel safe anymore

If you have experiences in politic, you will not easily believe in such things

For the next few days, the admins kept on telling everybody how much they fear for the life of Alex, how sure they are that he is constantly being tortured, etc.

This is based on indonesian admins experiences who was ex journalists, legal assistant and ex pro democratic activist during suharto era, on dealing with the indonesian authorities. If there is no such group that support alex aan, for sure his fate will even worse. my cousin will not loose his finger and had to take a refugee status to other country, if during suharto era, he got such attention from public
- kk
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Re: Be wary of a facebook campaign called "Support Alex Aan's Human Rights"
Reply #7 - February 19, 2012, 12:05 AM

The root of the problem is because he discussed with muslims.
Alex's case would never have happened if not because of islamist influence in indonesia
####
when you look at all of these facts below, ask yourself why
it is very easy to overlook these things when not looking at alex's case with a critical eye
question everything
####

1. In Al Jazeera report, Alex Aan, never, not once, said that he asked people to stop criticizing Islam, the only thing he told the reporter was that he wanted to leave indonesia because he does not feel safe anymore.
2. Some people claimed that alex said, he wanted to back in Islam. However he said nothing about this in Al Jazeera interview.
3. The Al Jazeera reporter who interviewed Alex, specificaly stated that the police would only allow alex to be interviewed under police guard.
4. The police also claimed that alex was in protective custody, when actually he was arrested and charge with 3 crimes
5. Why have the people who assaulted alex, still not been arrested. For the same reason that, the muslim fanatics who stoned government offices have not been arrested
6. Eventough he was arrested in January, he still has not been provided with legal assistance. Under the Indonesian legal system, anybody who is arrested, has the right to legal counsel. If they can not effort to pay for the legal counsel themselves, the indonesian government is legally required to provide legal counsel at no charge
7. There are a lot of non profit human rights organizations and probono legal assistance organizations in indonesia. but none of them has stepped forward to help alex.
8. There are a lot of indonesian media agencies. But only The Jakarta Globe that often published the cruelty of islam and alex aan's case
9. etc

To commit a crime in indonesia and get away with it, is very easy
bring islamists and scream, there is no god but allah
- Jusfiq Hadjar
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Re: Be wary of a facebook campaign called "Support Alex Aan's Human Rights"
Reply #8 - February 20, 2012, 07:25 PM

So it is abvious that the admins of "Support Alex Aan's Human Rights" are not interested in helping Alex. Until now they are not even in touch yet with te parents of Alex. And they deleted my posting criticising them.
- kk
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Re: Be wary of a facebook campaign called "Support Alex Aan's Human Rights"
Reply #9 - February 22, 2012, 10:30 AM

We've had a great deal of criticism since we started that group in support of Alex, yet have banned very few people. The only people we have banned are those who keep spamming the group repeatedly, and who are abusive. We provided an email address which anybody could contact as at to provide any helpful info they might have regarding contacting Alex or his family, Alex's condition, etc. We did ask you to please email us at this address. You refused to, obviously not interested in helping, and continued to spam the group. After several days of this, you were finally banned. Since the group started, we have had to ban far less than 10 people. We also have a hard time believing that you are actually Jusfiq as the Jusfiq who was previously participating in the group had a completely different personality and was not abusive at all. We have nothing further to say to you.
- paranoid
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Re: Be wary of a facebook campaign called "Support Alex Aan's Human Rights"
Reply #10 - February 22, 2012, 01:51 PM

my neighbour is in distressed I don't know what to do
- kk
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Re: Be wary of a facebook campaign called "Support Alex Aan's Human Rights"
Reply #11 - February 22, 2012, 02:43 PM

I would also like to suggest that those who doubt that this group is not legitimate or who think we have a 'hidden agenda', please contact Maryam Namazie directly and ask her. CEMB have been assisting us gather donations for Alex's legal defence fund from the beginning, as has Atheist Alliance International. We initially contacted her and asked if she would be willing to do this so that nobody could ever suggest we had started this group to fill our own pockets with funds donated for Alex's cause. We touch not a penny of it. All donations go through Maryam and Atheist Alliance International. Why would Maryam be affiliated with a cause that was not legitimate? Why would we bother setting things up in this manner if we had ulterior motives? Absolutely ridiculous. In addition, Maryam agreed to support the petition using the name of CEMB, which you can check for yourselves.

I'm also very disappointed with the moderator of this forum for making statements such as above and not realizing all of these facts.

As for the person critiquing some of the posts made within the Alex Aan Facebook group, that comment was not made by an admin. It was made by a participant of the group. We do not censor anything in that group. We have only a couple of very simple rules. We do this in order that nobody is able to scream 'censorship' or 'you're violating my freedom of speech', when we ourselves are fighting for Alex Aan's freedom of speech. Our rules are these: 1). No spamming the group over and over again with the same posts, monopolizing the group. 2). No posting and trying to pose as somebody you're not 3). Posts must be in Indonesian with English translation or English alone. It's an international group, so we want people to be aware of everything which is being said. We do not delete posts which are attacks on us as a group or personally. Even those who have been banned in the past - approximately 5 people total - do not have their posts removed. We leave them for everybody to be able to access.

We are under no obligation to agree with everything which participants of the forum believe themselves. We are also under no obligation to change things which somebody may not like. If you would like a group where everything goes the way you would like it to all of the time, which is only in line with your own personal beliefs, we suggest you start a group yourself instead of having a hissy fit when you don't get your way or when people do not agree with you.

As far as your claims that we have made no attempt to contact Alex's parents, you would know this how? You have no idea what we have done since we started this group, what is going on behind the scenes, or anything else. We have put a great deal of time and effort into the petition to have Alex freed, in setting up more than one means through which people can donate to Alex's fund, and all of the other people we have been in contact with. It's amazing how people who are in no way affiliated with this group in the context of admins or founders feel they know everything which is going on. You are just repeating things you have heard elsewhere.

Maryam has last night asked us to put together a press release which we are trying to have completed by tonight. Hopefully we'll be able to complete that in the next 24 hours so she can post the release as soon as possible, eliminating ridiculous accusation such as these.
- Ed Lifton
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Free Alex Aan
Reply #12 - June 22, 2012, 01:29 PM

Thanks for the warning about the Facebook campaign that simply attacks Muslims.
Do you have contact details for Alex's Indonesian legal defence?
Fairness to Alex is important, as well as defence of atheism and agnosticism. He expressed doubt about god, but has apologised and may have become a Muslim again.

There is a CEMB-supported petition for Alex at
http://www.avaaz.org/en/petition/Free_Alex_Aan_imprisoned_for_saying_there_is_no_god/

There is an Indonesian agnostic blog (part English, part Bahasa) at
http://indonesia.faithfreedom.org/forum/petisi-internasional-tuntut-pembebasan-alex-aan-t47502/

There is also a Change.org petition

Ed
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