Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts


What happens in these day...
by akay
Today at 08:17 AM

Qur'anic studies today
by zeca
Today at 08:05 AM

New Britain
Today at 12:22 AM

What's happened to the fo...
Yesterday at 09:03 PM

Lights on the way
by akay
May 26, 2025, 10:25 AM

Gaza assault
May 24, 2025, 11:55 AM

Do humans have needed kno...
May 23, 2025, 10:04 AM

الحبيب من يشبه اكثر؟؟؟
by akay
May 19, 2025, 12:00 PM

Marcion and the introduct...
by zeca
May 17, 2025, 09:44 PM

Random Islamic History Po...
by zeca
May 10, 2025, 10:45 AM

What music are you listen...
by zeca
May 10, 2025, 08:24 AM

Pope Francis Signals Rema...
May 09, 2025, 05:32 PM

Theme Changer

 Topic: The Veil

 (Read 10160 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • The Veil
     OP - July 09, 2012, 09:09 AM

    Just found something fascinating on wiki!

    Quote
    The Biblical story of Judah and Tamar (Genesis 38) provides a depiction of prostitution as practiced in the society of the time. The prostitute plies her trade at the side of a highway, waiting for travellers. She covers her face; which marks her as a prostitute, available for casual sex, unlike in the Middle Eastern societies of the present day — "he thought her to be a harlot, for she had covered her face". She gets paid in kind, asking for a kid as her fee; a rather high price in a herding society, in which only the wealthy owner of numerous herds could afford to pay for a single sexual encounter. If the traveller does not have his cattle with him, he must give some valuables as a deposit, until the kid is delivered to the woman.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_prostitution

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Re: The Veil
     Reply #1 - July 09, 2012, 10:30 AM

    Just found something fascinating on wiki!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_prostitution


    Islam and Islamic stories twisted everything that was there in the early stories of Judaism + Christianity. The feudal society of Arab pagans  made it a religion,  a religion that suits the leaders/their actions in the name of Allah & an erected   leader  named  as "Muhammad".

    It is nothing but Arabian Paganism Gone  wild with Jewish folk stories...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: The Veil
     Reply #2 - July 09, 2012, 02:04 PM

    In both Ancient Persia and Greece, the veil was used by wealthy and noble women. Though it seems that it was more common in Persia than Greece. There are hardly any pieces of Greek art where women were veiled. The Greek historian Herodotus mentioned that the wealthy Persians had a peculiar custom of hiding their women behind veils and curtained carriages. So if this practice had been common in Greece aswell then why would he even mention it?

    Here is a good article on the ancient use of the veil in Mesopotamia and Persia.

    It was a symbol of prestige and wealth, but certainly not a duty. I think wealthy men probably used it to hide their wives away from the prying eyes of the common people. According to wikipedia, the first recorded instance of veiling for women is recorded in an Assyrian legal text from the 13th century BC, which restricted its use to noble women and forbade prostitutes and common women from adopting it.

    Down in Arabia who really knows what was going on seeing as there are almost no surviving records from the so-called "Age of Ignorance". But there is some fascinating evidence from the ancient city of Palmyra in the deserts of Syria.

    Palmyra was a city on the edge of the Roman Empire, out on the fringes of the desert which was a cultural melting pot between the Persian and Roman spheres of influence, but seeing as it was on the edge of the desert there was a lot of Arab influence there. The word "Arab" was originally used to describe the peoples of this precise region (the desert between Mesopotamia and Coastal Syria). In fact one of the deities of the city of Palmyra was in fact Allat (the same Arab Goddess mentioned in the Koran). According to wikipedia, the people of Palmyra spoke Aramaic but later shifted to Greek.

    Anyway there is some artistic evidence for the use of the veil in Palmyra in the first 2 centuries AD:

    Funerary bust of a woman named "Ammiat" apparently dated to between 2nd-4th Century AD:


    Funerary bust of a woman named "Aqmat" dated to late 2nd Century AD:


    Note that these head covering allows the women to pull the drapes from the side over their face if they wanted to. (i.e. if she was out and about and did not want her face to be seen). In the second bust the woman appears to be holding back the drape on purpose so as to reveal her face.

    The image below shows how these drapes could be used to hide the face:

    1st century AD depiction of women in veils (from Palmyra):

  • Re: The Veil
     Reply #3 - July 09, 2012, 04:29 PM


    another corking post from the Tony meister  Afro

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: The Veil
     Reply #4 - July 09, 2012, 06:45 PM

    ^Thats why he got my vote for POTM.

    Speaking of Persia, isnt that where Zoroastarianism was practiced? Seems like Islam took a leaf out of it regarding the veil.

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Re: The Veil
     Reply #5 - July 11, 2012, 11:40 PM

    I was the first to nominate Tonyt for a POTM  whistling2...ofc I recognise where there's talent, fast cool2

    Cheesy

    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Re: The Veil
     Reply #6 - July 12, 2012, 04:50 AM

    In both Ancient Persia and Greece, the veil was used by wealthy and noble women.............

    I've heard similar things, i.e. the veil in Islam was meant to honour women by making them like the nobler/more honoured/more respected women of the time.

    Self ban for Ramadan (THAT RHYMES)

    Expect me to come back a Muslim. Cool Tongue j/k we'll see..
  • Re: The Veil
     Reply #7 - July 12, 2012, 04:52 AM

    Imitating the Kuffar?  Wink

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: The Veil
     Reply #8 - July 12, 2012, 04:53 AM

    I guess.

    Self ban for Ramadan (THAT RHYMES)

    Expect me to come back a Muslim. Cool Tongue j/k we'll see..
  • Re: The Veil
     Reply #9 - July 12, 2012, 04:59 AM

    Or maybe the Kuffar had a sense of the fitrah that is innate in every human being and heeded the call as best as they could by veiling their women. 

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: The Veil
     Reply #10 - July 12, 2012, 12:47 PM

    Quote
    "he thought her to be a harlot, for she had covered her face".


    Actually, what is the status of the Bible in Islam, so would the veil being used in a very different manner originally have any effect?

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Re: The Veil
     Reply #11 - July 12, 2012, 06:36 PM

    Thanks guys.

    Here's a cool video of some more art and architecture from Palmyra and a few other Pre-Islamic cities:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGOYbBZc__0
  • Re: The Veil
     Reply #12 - October 13, 2012, 02:52 AM

    I don't mind if women want to "veil" themselves. It's the part about it being an obligation or your hair strands will burn in a torture chamber that irks me. That is what my aunt tells me to get me to cover but in the same breath she mentions "Allah loves you more than your parents do" I must not question her so I stay lipsrsealed I don't want to sound "disrespectful" of course.

    "In every religion there is love, yet love has no religion"

    "The intellectual runs away, afraid of drowning; the whole business of love is to drown in the sea." - Rumi
  • Re: The Veil
     Reply #13 - October 13, 2012, 04:35 AM

    if you are  a muslim women then you cant live life...you just are ordered to follow orders... Muslim women has no right she has only duties. Smiley

    Belief is the death of intelligence
  • Re: The Veil
     Reply #14 - October 13, 2012, 05:47 AM

    if you are  a muslim... then you cant live life...you just are ordered to follow orders... Muslim women has no right she has only duties. Smiley


    Your right Arman

    plus Islam's obsession with you making friends with other muslims only really causes people to miss out on some potential best friends.  I knew my current best friend who's a hindu pantheist  since we were 12 but only became close to him once I became an atheist. Before Islam always seemed like a barrier that prevented us from having a heart to heart discussion.

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Re: The Veil
     Reply #15 - October 14, 2012, 08:04 PM

    if you are  a muslim women then you cant live life...you just are ordered to follow orders... Muslim women has no right she has only duties. Smiley


    Yes, Islam seems to enforce 'gender roles'.
  • Re: The Veil
     Reply #16 - October 21, 2012, 05:49 AM


    Down in Arabia who really knows what was going on seeing as there are almost no surviving records from the so-called "Age of Ignorance". But there is some fascinating evidence from the ancient city of Palmyra in the deserts of Syria.


     

    I always cringe when muslims call the Arabian period before islam the "age of ignorance" 

    I'm tempted to say " As a creationist your the last person to be calling anyone ignorant.

    Do muslims not understand the concept of irony !

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • The Veil
     Reply #17 - December 08, 2013, 08:38 AM

    Well, I've learned something new.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • The Veil
     Reply #18 - December 08, 2013, 09:05 AM

    I don't mind if women want to "veil" themselves. It's the part about it being an obligation or your hair strands will burn in a torture chamber that irks me.


    Actually, from the lengthy hadith of al israa wa al miraaj, women who do not cover their hair are tortured in hell by being hung naked from their breast (or was it their hair? No, think it defenitely was their breasts)  Roll Eyes


    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • The Veil
     Reply #19 - December 08, 2013, 09:18 AM

    Wow...

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • The Veil
     Reply #20 - December 08, 2013, 10:19 AM

    Quote
    Actually, from the lengthy hadith of al israa wa al miraaj, women who do not cover their hair are tortured in hell by being hung naked from their breast (or was it their hair? No, think it defenitely was their breasts)  Roll Eyes

     
    Wow...


    That is such a bullshit ., there is no Wow.. in that., Such stupid hadith were scribbled  by a BLIND IDIOT(he was blind)  and was written literally 500 years after the death of alleged Prophet.    Just to let the readers know.. The hadith goes like this
    Quote
    Ali and Fatimah (rad) say, we came to Nabi(saw), we found him crying uncontrollably, they said, oh Nabi of ALLAH (saw) what makes you cry in this manner.

    He(saw) said.,   "oh Ali(rad), I am recalling a moment when I went for me'raj and I ascended the heavens, on that particular night I found six catergories of the women of my ummat being subjected to such form of torment that every time I think about that azaab it makes me cry, he (saw) then started to explain,"

    I seen a women hung by her hair suspended in the depth of jahannam, her brains were boiling. Then i seen a women hung by her toungue, and the water of jahannam was being poured down her throat. Then I seen a women hung by the upper portion of her chest. Then i seen a women, her legs were tied to her chest and her hands were tied to her forehead. Then i seen one women, she was disfigured, she had the head of a swine and the body of a donkey, snakes were surrounding her. Then i seen a women in the form of a dog, and the angles were stiriking her.


    Then Fatimah(RAD) stood up cried and embraced her father, and asked, oh Nabi of ALLAH(SAW) what were the crimes of these women that they were subjected to such forms of azaab?

    The Nabi of ALLAH(SAW) held his daughter and said,

    "With regards to the women who was hung by her hair, she walked outside freely, exposing and revealing her hair to strange men. The one who was hung by her toungue, she used to verbally abuse her husband. That women who was hung by the upper portion of her chest, she was an immoral women an unchaste women smiling with strange men. That women whose legs were tied to her chest and her hands tied to her forehead, this women was very negligent with the aspecty of purity, when it came to the period after her menstural cycle, she had to purify herself so she could pray her salaah. And with regards to that women who was disfigured, she was one who carried tales and she used to lie openly. With regards to that women who was in the form of a dog, she was one who constantly reminded others about her favours and her heart is full of jealousy."

    That is how that hadith goes. And that comes out of  " al-kabaair,"  which was written by Al-Dhahabi (1274–1348),  

    most of these IDIOTS*(the hadith writers)  hallucinate  and they write some nonsense in the name of Muhammad with long twisted "he said, you said, who said" narrations.   And in modern times Muslim fools brain wash  their children(specially girls)  with such stupid hadith/silly stories..

    Rascals.. Mock them and move on....

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • The Veil
     Reply #21 - December 08, 2013, 03:03 PM

     Afro

    "Work without hope draws nectar in a sieve, and hope without an object cannot live." -Coleridge

    http://sinofgreed.wordpress.com/
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »