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Theme Changer

 Topic: thetruth from Denmark

 (Read 9345 times)
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  • thetruth from Denmark
     OP - November 13, 2013, 03:54 PM

    I don't know how to start this but here goes:

    I'm a 24-year old born Muslim who has left his religion formally 2 months ago. Well, not exactly two months ago, as I went through a period where I subconsciously stopped being Muslim about 6 months ago but continued to believe in Allah. I'll start my story from the beginning and try to keep it as condensed as possible so please bear with me.

    I grew up in a quiet, small city in Denmark and was always fascinated by Islam. I remember going to the city library and studying the religion from about the age of 12. Reading about Muhammad, the Sunnah and history of Islam was my favorite past-time activity. While other kids where forced to go to Qur'an school, I loved Islam.

    We soon moved to the England where I was exposed to even more Islam and quickly picked up on the Islamic literature written in English. Of course this provided me with a lot more variety than I was used to back in Denmark, as most books at the library were Islam 101. The timing couldn't be any worse as this was the post 9/11 period where the Jihadist narrative was rampant. To make matters worse, we moved into a neighborhood that was notorious for celebrating the 9/11 hijackers. I was indoctrinated with this poison as I was an impressionable young youth at the time.

    Fortunately, this Jihadi strain died out in my consciousness, as I realised Islam was more than just emotions. I returned to my academic study of Islam eventually being exposed to the literature of Harun Yahya. This was the beginning of my intellectual take on Islam. You all know the story; I was so convinced that non believers where intellectually dishonest as they denied all the signs of Allah. Evolution was bullshit. The Qur'an was filled with miracles, how could they deny this! How could Muhammad know about the Big Bang, the formation of the fetus in the womb and the amazing predictions of the AIDS virus! However, I knew deep down even then that I wanted these miracles to be true and I was filling in the missing gaps with my desire to believe, but alas! The Qur'an had to be true.

    I don't remember exactly what led me to doubt Islam, but if I had to make a guess it would be Muslims. I began to notice the hypocrisy and futility in the arguments of Muslims. For example, Muslims would constantly make references to non-Muslims as inferiors who are worse than animals, yet were living in non-Muslim lands where they were often being supported by the same state they were criticizing. On the other hand, Muslims were supposedly a superior people chosen by Allah, yet these same people had made no significant contribution to the world for many hundred years. I wondered, 'When was the last time Muslims have contributed anything substantial to humanity?' Surely Muslims can do more than just kill each other and non-believers?

    What ultimately led to my disbelief in Muslims however was the socially acceptable antisemitism I was witnessing. During my studies into the scientific achievements of different peoples I grew a strange affinity for Jewish people. I found it baffling that a people had been hated for no other reason than their ethnicity (as people are born Jewish), and found their tenacity as a people admirable. I once had a super chill art teacher that was Jewish and I used to wonder,'What was wrong with her?' Why should she be considered inferior and be destined for hell?'

    I began to see things differently and began noticing the filth coming from Muslims I was surrounded by; 'Man, that guy is acting Yahuudi (stingy)?', 'Bro don't watch the news, the Yahuud are trying to make Muslims look bad.' And of course my favorite (or not so favorite),'Yahuud were behind 9/11.' Some accusations were even so bizarre I really had to stop for a minute and be amazed at the level of hatred/ignorance, 'Al-shabaab are controlled by the Yahuud.' As if Jews would have any interest in Somalia. Even more sad, was the fact that a lot of the statements would come from my nearest of kin.

    At the end I was left dismayed and eventually lost my faith in Muslims. I began hanging around non-Muslims and pretty much cut all my ties with religious people. I found non-Muslims to be a lot less judgmental.

    Naturally, one thing led to another and I mustered up the courage one day to start looking critically into my religion. I made the declaration to myself,'If I find Islam to be true I will dedicate my life to it for the rest of my life and if not.... well, of course it's the truth so I'm just doing this to ''strengthen my iman''. As you can see I had confirmation bias towards Islam from the outset so you can imagine what happened next. After a few weeks I was charged with the ''sweetness of Eeman'' but it only lasted for a few days. I still knew deep down I was lying to myself and not being fully honest in the face of the evidence. Even more insane was that I knew I was selectively avoiding those pages that I knew would challenge my faith. I was scared shit-less to even contemplate the idea that Islam could potentially be false.

    Fast forward to a a day in September this year and this was the day I literally snapped. I remember it like it happened yesterday even though it's two months ago. I woke up one day and did my usual routine; get on the internet to check out my inbox while loading Al Jazeera on the other tap. What do I see? Another suicide attack where 16 people where killed, all Muslims by other Muslims (this was a bloody period that lasted for about a month where a Muslim somewhere was engaging in terrorism almost daily). I snapped. I had enough, this was what broke the camel's back.

    It was like a flood had been opened and I literally went into a rage for a couple of days. I had lost all my sympathy for Islam and Muslims. Up until that point I wanted to believe. Not anymore. I engaged with the Qur'an critically, and looked into all the books I had put off for all this time. I read through two books on evolution, spent time reading up on the errors in the Qur'an. I'm now half-way through 'A History of God' by Karen Armstrong.

    What I know now is what I did not want to know: the Qur'an is full of nonsense and Muhammad was not divinely inspired. I might not know why he claimed to be a prophet, or who taught him about the previous scriptures, but by examining his claims about the natural world I can safely conclude he was not be inspired by an all knowing being. I now know that God is a product of our imagination and religion is the early attempt of our ancestors to understand the world around us. I know that we are all related and we only have one planet, so it's in our interest as a species to take care of each other. I don't know if God exists or what or who this God is. But I do know that humans have made gods throughout history and just like us, the concept of god has a evolutionary history.

    In a way I feel like I am what I always was; an agnostic. Doubting and asking questions is our true fitrah (natural disposition) and is what has led our species to develop sophisticated cultures, including religion.

    I'm no longer scared of the High God of the Arabs, the idea of Hell, or even society finding out about my apostasy. My only sadness is that I know my family will never accept me for who I am, and are likely to disown me when they find out I no longer subscribe to this bad excuse of a religion.

    Life will never be the same.

    Thank you for reading my story.

    ~ thetruth
  • thetruth from Denmark
     Reply #1 - November 13, 2013, 04:09 PM

    Welcome to the forum!! Glad to have you there.
     parrot far away hug
    I hope you'll get some advice here for your family situation.
  • thetruth from Denmark
     Reply #2 - November 13, 2013, 04:16 PM

    Hi thetruth
    I am a newbie to the forum myself. I apostized from the religion about 6 or 7 months ago. I've had doubts and concerns for a very long time, but I think that it was this ludacris hadith that was the "last straw" and I couldn't go on deluding myself that this was the true religion of god. Even though the hadith may seem harmless, the moment I read it that I felt "I can no longer defend this nonsense" despite how hard I wished it to be true.

    Narrated Amr ibn Maimun
    During the pre-Islamic period I saw a she-monkey surrounded by other monkeys. They were all stoning it for it had commited adultery. I too stoned it with them. (Sahih al Bukhari)

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • thetruth from Denmark
     Reply #3 - November 13, 2013, 05:50 PM

    Hiya Smiley
    And welcome,  parrot
  • thetruth from Denmark
     Reply #4 - November 13, 2013, 09:48 PM

    Quote
    it's in our interest as a species to take care of each other


    Welcome and well said.
  • thetruth from Denmark
     Reply #5 - November 13, 2013, 09:53 PM

    Welcome. Have a parrot parrot

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • thetruth from Denmark
     Reply #6 - November 14, 2013, 09:20 AM

    What I know now is what I did not want to know

    Very well said.

    And very very difficult for most people to admit to. Not just Muslims, but readers of the Guardian and the Daily Mail alike.
  • thetruth from Denmark
     Reply #7 - November 14, 2013, 02:19 PM

    Welcome. Great intro! Great to have you here.  parrot bunny
  • thetruth from Denmark
     Reply #8 - November 14, 2013, 09:36 PM

    Welcome  Smiley

    Bor du i Danmark igen  Tongue
  • thetruth from Denmark
     Reply #9 - November 15, 2013, 03:39 AM

     parrot

    Hi, I am mostly new, too.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • thetruth from Denmark
     Reply #10 - November 15, 2013, 10:42 AM

    Thanks for the warm welcome people. David what I find baffling is that I really did not learn anything significantly new about Islam during my critical study of it; I just put away my confirmation bias. I truly think most educated Muslims know there is something wrong with the religion but they silence this inner voice subconsciously (and sometime consciously as doubt is frown upon in Islam as you all know). Religion's grip on people is more due to sociology and psychology, than any rational and objective reasons in my opinion.
  • thetruth from Denmark
     Reply #11 - November 15, 2013, 10:59 AM

    Hi thetruth
    I am a newbie to the forum myself. I apostized from the religion about 6 or 7 months ago. I've had doubts and concerns for a very long time, but I think that it was this ludacris hadith that was the "last straw" and I couldn't go on deluding myself that this was the true religion of god. Even though the hadith may seem harmless, the moment I read it that I felt "I can no longer defend this nonsense" despite how hard I wished it to be true.

    Narrated Amr ibn Maimun
    During the pre-Islamic period I saw a she-monkey surrounded by other monkeys. They were all stoning it for it had commited adultery. I too stoned it with them. (Sahih al Bukhari)


    Didn't know about the monkey hadith, can you provide references where in Bukhari I can find it?
  • thetruth from Denmark
     Reply #12 - November 15, 2013, 12:58 PM

    David what I find baffling is that I really did not learn anything significantly new about Islam during my critical study of it; I just put away my confirmation bias. I truly think most educated Muslims know there is something wrong with the religion but they silence this inner voice subconsciously (and sometime consciously as doubt is frown upon in Islam as you all know). Religion's grip on people is more due to sociology and psychology, than any rational and objective reasons in my opinion.

    It's not just religion that does this, but any thought set.
  • thetruth from Denmark
     Reply #13 - November 15, 2013, 03:13 PM

    Welcome to the forum !


    Here is our customary welcome parrot  parrot

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Re: thetruth from Denmark
     Reply #14 - November 15, 2013, 08:38 PM

    And very very difficult for most people to admit to. Not just Muslims, but readers of the Guardian and the Daily Mail alike.


    Eh, the Guardian is the only decent paper worth reading in this country. I don't see how you can compare a left-liberal newspaper with a right-populist one.
  • thetruth from Denmark
     Reply #15 - November 16, 2013, 11:06 AM

    Neither is honest, nor even tries to be.
  • thetruth from Denmark
     Reply #16 - November 18, 2013, 06:32 PM

    Neither is honest, nor even tries to be.


    No newspaper is honest, comrade!
  • thetruth from Denmark
     Reply #17 - November 18, 2013, 10:20 PM

    it's a bit lazy to quote obviously spurious hadith and not even bother consulting sheikh google to check it out.

    http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2005/were-she-monkeys-stoned-for-adultery/
  • thetruth from Denmark
     Reply #18 - November 18, 2013, 10:57 PM

    A website with no list of people nor their credentials are considered sheikh? Filled with apologetic from people which write websites like answering-Christianity.  With notable people such as Khalid Yasin and his arguments. Argument from authority much? What is lazy is linking a site which is neither academic nor written by academics
  • thetruth from Denmark
     Reply #19 - November 23, 2013, 04:54 PM

    I don't see any academics here - as an average lazy person,  I see no problem with using sheikh google to provide instant replies to random quotes about monkey nonsense.
  • thetruth from Denmark
     Reply #20 - November 23, 2013, 08:12 PM

    Sheikh google  Cheesy

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • thetruth from Denmark
     Reply #21 - November 26, 2013, 03:10 AM

    it's a bit lazy to quote obviously spurious hadith and not even bother consulting sheikh google to check it out.

    http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2005/were-she-monkeys-stoned-for-adultery/


    Didn't even bother to read the whole thing. I never said shariah required us to stone monkeys so that's not even the point. Yet, these were the type of people who recieved the "messenger" and were the best of people. And yet, al Bukhari collected it in his saheeh for whatever reason. And yet, the guy bothered to transmit his little anecdote. This embarasing narration was just that little push in the back that helped me realize something I had kknown for quite the while :-)

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • thetruth from Denmark
     Reply #22 - November 26, 2013, 03:15 AM


    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • thetruth from Denmark
     Reply #23 - November 26, 2013, 04:31 AM

    I don't see any academics here - as an average lazy person,  I see no problem with using sheikh google to provide instant replies to random quotes about monkey nonsense.


    Hence why one can dismiss such an answer as it is not from someone I can verify is actually a sheikh or someone that has even a fundamental understanding of the topic they are talking about. Heck lets play a little experiment. Google "why Islam is false" read some answer. I am sure for many this falls right into their confirmation bias. Are these answer good enough for you? If not why?

    Read:
    http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/07/is-google-making-us-stupid/306868/
    http://www.writing.utoronto.ca/advice/reading-and-researching/research-using-internet

    This is why random Google searches carry no weight in arguments with me.
  • thetruth from Denmark
     Reply #24 - November 26, 2013, 01:55 PM

    I don't think we're in the business of trying to convince each other? offering alternative views is the best that can be achieved on a forum like this.
  • thetruth from Denmark
     Reply #25 - November 27, 2013, 02:00 AM

    offering alternative views is the best that can be achieved on a forum like this.

    Yup
  • thetruth from Denmark
     Reply #26 - November 27, 2013, 08:38 PM

    I don't think we're in the business of trying to convince each other? offering alternative views is the best that can be achieved on a forum like this.


    It is not the opinion offered I took issue with. It was the form in which it was given.

    it's a bit lazy to quote obviously spurious hadith and not even bother consulting sheikh google to check it out.

    http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2005/were-she-monkeys-stoned-for-adultery/


    You provided an opinion from a person you claim is a sheikh. I can not verify that this person is in fact a sheikh. This is what I took issue with. Since I can not verify this person's credentials to me this is an argument from authority, the fallacy version. Yes people can provide opinions but you hide this opinion behind the veil of authority. Also if you read the articles it's conclusion goes right into reactionary rhetoric.

    All this causes me to question if the opinion is one based on proper research or to cover their religious bias.
  • thetruth from Denmark
     Reply #27 - November 27, 2013, 09:07 PM

    sheikh google...the term is not used for serious or authoritative reasons, lol.
  • thetruth from Denmark
     Reply #28 - November 28, 2013, 08:30 AM

    Lol yeah I got that. Thought it was funny. Afro

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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