Al-Amin? So What?

1« Previous thread | Next thread »
- ibn Bilal
- Global Moderator
- سلاسي هو المسيح
- offline
Al-Amin? So What?
OP - June 02, 2014, 05:32 PM

Muslims often make a huge fuss of the fact that Muhammad was known as Al-Amin, or, the trustworthy. They taut this around as though it is some sort of proof of the claim that he could never have feigned his revelations, nor could they have been a product of some sort of mental disturbance from which may have suffered.

There are two problems with this, however. Firstly, Al-Amin could very well have been a nickname given to Muhammad simply because he was actually an amin, or a trustee. You see, even in Arabic usage today, an amin is someone who is entrusted with something. As Muhammad was indeed entrusted with the handling of Khadijah's long-distance commercial dealings, it only makes sense for him to have been referred to as her amin.

But let's say that Al-Amin was really a descriptor referring to Muhammad's trustworthy character. Would not Muhammad simply be fulfilling the bare minimum job requirement for his position? People who are entrusted with the business of other are supposed to be trustworthy. By the nature of their job, those qualities are implied. If it were known that Muhammad was an untrustworthy trustee, I suppose he would have found himself out of a job rather quickly.

What is more, just because I consider the gentleman who works on my car to be a "trustworthy mechanic," it would most certainly not cause me to to be compelled to believe him if he began claiming to have received revelations from outer space instructing me to kill my own countrymen unless they believed him. Muhammad's trustworthiness in the capacity as a caravan merchant has no bearing as to whether or not we should believe him when he claims to have spoken to angels, been married by God to his daughter-in-law, or flown through the universe on a winged mule.

It changes nothing to note that Muhammad was once known trustworthy. Whether he honestly believed his own claims to prophethood or not, we ourselves are left with no good or rational reason to trust his claims to be true.
- hocuspocus
- Member
- offline
Al-Amin? So What?
Reply #1 - June 02, 2014, 05:49 PM

How do you know that he was referred to as "Al-Amin" only in the context of business deals?
- ibn Bilal
- Global Moderator
- سلاسي هو المسيح
- offline
Al-Amin? So What?
Reply #2 - June 02, 2014, 05:58 PM

I don't. Again, though, unless being a compulsive liar was just a common trait in 7th century Arabia, then being known as someone who people could trust really is not all that much of an accomplishment. Even Abu Sufyan in the days of his enmity to Muhammad is reported to have commented on the importance of being known as trustworthy among his peers at that time, even when his impulse may was to lie. "If it were not that I feared I might have been seen as a liar among my peers, I would have told lies," he was quoted to have said during his meeting with a Byzantine leader.
- Cornflower
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Al-Amin? So What?
Reply #3 - June 02, 2014, 06:00 PM

From the Islamic sources, he was referred to as "Al-Ameen" even before marrying Khadijah (he was hired by her supposedly because of this trait). The restoration of the Ka'bah and the black stone incident comes to mind. But even then, it is really no reason for us to believe in such a person if he claimed to be the messenger of god. Obviously, the Makkans felt the same way. If they had really believed he was so trustworthy to the extent that we should believe every single word coming of his mouth, they would have immediately believed in him and followed him. But they didn't. It is irrational and outright ludacris to claim that the Makkans "knew" he was speaking the truth (just like the Jews in Madinah) but out of spite or arrogance refused to follow him. It says more about Islam than the "disbelievers", in all honesty.

This reminds me of when Mo had his little freakout and went up on Safa calling out to the Makkans and asking them about his trustworthiness. Oh yes, they all saw him as an honest and trustworthy person. But then he went on rambling about hell and allah's punishment and whatnot, and people got quiet whispering about what a lunatic he was. As Muslims, we are taught to despise Abu Lahab. But as an apostate, I think he was one of the few intelligent and rational individual who reacted exactly how a normal person would if confronted with someone as Mo. He threw a rock at him yelling: “May you perish for this! Is this what you have summoned us here for?”

@hm: Exactly, being honest and truthful was seen (as in any society) as extremely important. So much so, that even according to Islamic sources, the Quraishi disbelievers wouldn't "tell lies" about Mo even when it would have benefited them immensely. Of course, the reliability of the historical accounts could be questioned since they all seem very silly to begin with

"The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
- Rubaya
- Pub Regular
- offline
Al-Amin? So What?
Reply #4 - June 02, 2014, 06:09 PM

Seeing the havoc that Islam is wreaking today, I find Abu Lahab cool. And you are right. He WAS a sensible man. I mean calling a bunch of people to pick you up with their compliments?
- yeezevee
- Pub Regular
- offline
Al-Amin? So What?
Reply #5 - June 02, 2014, 06:39 PM

So new thread on Prophet of Islam....Question here is Why Prophet of Islam was called as "Muhammad al-Amin"((Muhammad the Trustworthy)?? More important is who named or called him as "Muhammad al-Amin" and when?? ., Was it after he became Prophet or was it Before Islam??

incidentally Prophet of Islam was called with all sorts name.. let me put them here..

All that is from pakistanpaedia.com/.. Pakistanpedia... what a name.. Any way let us explore bit more on the Character and conduct of Alleged Prophet of Islam..

By the way I often Call him as "SODOM"

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- Cornflower
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Al-Amin? So What?
Reply #6 - June 02, 2014, 07:12 PM

LOL both Mo and allah has 99 names. Isn't it a bit suspicious?

"The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
- yeezevee
- Pub Regular
- offline
Al-Amin? So What?
Reply #7 - June 02, 2014, 07:29 PM

Quote from: Cornflower on June 02, 2014, 07:12 PM
LOL both Mo and allah has 99 names. Isn't it a bit suspicious?

I PROTEST... Does Prophet of Islam has same names as Allah?

NOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooo.. See names of Allah..

Quote
Allah (الله) God
Ar Rahman (الرحمن) The All Merciful
Ar Rahim (الرحيم) The Most Merciful
Al Malik (الملك) The King, The Sovereign
Al Quddus (القدوس) The Most Holy
As Salam (السلام) Peace and Blessing
Al Mu'min (المؤمن) The Guarantor
Al Muhaymin (المهيمن) The Guardian, the Preserver
Al 'Aziz (العزيز) The Almighty, the Self Sufficient
Al Jabbar (الجبار) The Powerful, the Irresistible
Al Mutakabbir (المتكبر) The Tremendous
Al Khaliq (الخالق) The Creator
Al Bari' (البارئ) The Maker
Al Musawwir (المصور) The Fashioner of Forms
Al Ghaffar (الغفار) The Ever Forgiving
Al Qahhar (القهار) The All Compelling Subduer
Al Wahhab (الوهاب) The Bestower
Ar Razzaq (الرزاق) The Ever Providing
Al Fattah (الفتاح) The Opener, the Victory Giver
Al Alim (العليم) The All Knowing, the Omniscient
Al Qabid (القابض) The Restrainer, the Straightener
Al Basit (الباسط) The Expander, the Munificent
Al Khafid (الخافض) The Abaser
Ar Rafi' (الرافع) The Exalter
Al Mu'izz (المعز) The Giver of Honor
Al Muzil (المذل) The Giver of Dishonor
Al Sami' (السميع) The All Hearing
Al Basir (البصير) The All Seeing
Al Hakam (الحكم) The Judge, the Arbitrator
Al 'Adl (العدل) The Utterly Just
Al Latif (اللطيف) The Subtly Kind
Al Khabir (الخبير) The All Aware
Al Halim (الحليم) The Forbearing, the Indulgent
Al 'Azim (العظيم) The Magnificent, the Infinite
Al Ghafur (الغفور) The All Forgiving
Ash Shakur (الشكور) The Grateful
Al 'Ali (العلي) The Sublimely Exalted
Al Kabir (الكبير) The Great
Al Hafiz (الحفيظ) The Preserver
Al Muqit (المقيت) The Nourisher
Al Hasib (الحسيب) The Reckoner
Al Jalil (الجليل) The Majestic
Al Karim (الكريم) The Bountiful, the Generous
Ar Raqib (الرقيب) The Watchful
Al Mujib (المجيب) The Responsive, the Answerer
Al Wasi' (الواسع) The Vast, the All Encompassing
Al Hakim (الحكيم) The Wise
Al Wadud (الودود) The Loving, the Kind One
Al Majid (المجيد) The All Glorious
Al Ba'ith (الباعث) The Raiser of the Dead
Ash Shahid (الشهيد) The Witness
Al Haqq (الحق) The Truth, the Real
Al Wakil (الوكيل) The Trustee, the Dependable
Al Qawiyy (القوي) The Strong
Al Matin (المتين) The Firm, the Steadfast
Al Wali (الولي) The Protecting Friend, Patron, and Helper
Al Hamid (الحميد) The All Praiseworthy
Al Muhsi (المحصي) The Accounter, the Numberer of All
Al Mubdi' (المبدئ) The Producer, Originator, and Initiator of all
Al Mu'id (المعيد) The Reinstater Who Brings Back All
Al Muhyi (المحيي) The Giver of Life
Al Mumit (المميت) The Bringer of Death, the Destroyer
Al Hayy (الحي) The Ever Living
Al Qayyum (القيوم) The Self Subsisting Sustainer of All
Al Wajid (الواجد) The Perceiver, the Finder, the Unfailing
Al Majid (الماجد) The Illustrious, the Magnificent
Al Wahid (الواحد) The One, the All Inclusive, the Indivisible
As Samad (الصمد) The Long, the Impregnable, the Everlasting
Al Qadir (القادر) The All Able
Al Muqtadir (المقتدر) The All Determiner, the Dominant
Al Muqaddim (المقدم) The Expediter, He who brings forward
Al Mu'akhkhir (المؤخر) The Delayer, He who puts far away
Al Awwal (الأول) The First
Al Akhir (الآخر) The Last
Az Zahir (الظاهر) The Manifest; the All Victorious
Al Batin (الباطن) The Hidden; the All Encompassing
Al Wali (الوالي) The Patron
Al Muta'al (المتعالي) The Self Exalted
Al Barr (البر) The Most Kind and Righteous
At Tawwab (التواب) The Ever Returning, Ever Relenting
Al Muntaqim (المنتقم) The Avenger
Al 'Afuww (العفو) The Pardoner, the Effacer of Sins
Ar Ra'uf (الرؤوف) The Compassionate, the All Pitying
Malik al Mulk (مالك الملك) The Owner of All Sovereignty
Dhu al Jalal wa al Ikram (ذو الجلال و الإكرام) The Lord of Majesty and Generosity
Al Muqsit (المقسط) The Equitable, the Requiter
Al Jami' (الجامع) The Gatherer, the Unifier
Al Ghani (الغني) The All Rich, the Independent
Al Mughni (المغني) The Enricher, the Emancipator
Al Mani' (المانع) The Withholder, the Shielder, the Defender
Ad Dharr (الضآر) The Distresser
An Nafi' (النافع) The Propitious, the Benefactor
An Nur (النور) The Light
Al Hadi (الهادي) The Guide
Al Badi (البديع) Incomparable, the Originator
Al Baqi (الباقي) The Ever Enduring and Immutable
Al Warith (الوارث) The Heir, the Inheritor of All
Ar Rashid (الرشيد) The Guide, Infallible Teacher, and Knower
As Sabur (الصبور) The Patient, the Timeless

You all wacko people think Allah is Alter Ego of Prophet.. No It is not.. both of them have their own independent Egos....

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- Cornflower
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Al-Amin? So What?
Reply #8 - June 02, 2014, 07:35 PM

I didn't mean they had the same names, just that the "Magic" number of 99 name is silly.

"The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
- yeezevee
- Pub Regular
- offline
Al-Amin? So What?
Reply #9 - June 02, 2014, 07:40 PM

Quote from: Cornflower on June 02, 2014, 07:35 PM
I didn't mean they had the same names, just that the "Magic" number of 99 name is silly.

Noooo.. Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) has extra name that you are not counting Cornflower. "SODOM".sodom....... many Momins follow Prophet's foot steps even in 21st century..

well forget all other 98 names and that SODOM.. let me add stories of Prophet told to children why Prophet of Islam is often called as Al-Amin?..

Quote
.Al-Amin (The Trustworthy)

As the Messenger of Allah The Prophet (peace be upon him) was born an orphan. His father Abdullah passed away two months before he (peace be upon him) was born.

When the Prophet (peace be upon him). grew up, he outshone everyone in intelligence, modesty and truthfulness. He was known for moderation, honesty and a serious sense of responsibility. In his early youth he was known to be a thoughtful boy. He worked as a shepherd and played with other children.

Even before he received revelation, Muhammad (peace be upon him) believed in One God, the God of Ibrahim ; and never fell into the common practices of his people of worshipping idols.

He believed that there was only one God, and only He was truly worthy of worship. He never gambled nor did he drink alcohol. He did not engage in gossip and backbiting. He gave charity to the poor and looked after the needy. He never lied, never broke a promise and never bore false witness. Everyone respected him, and the people addressed him as “Al-Amin”, which means “the trustworthy one”. He was also known as “As-Sadiq” or “The Truthful” for he never told a lie.

So what did I learn from that story as a child??

..................He never gambled nor did he drink alcohol.
He did not engage in gossip and backbiting.
He gave charity to the poor and looked after the needy.
He never lied, never broke a promise and never bore false witness
he outshone everyone in intelligence, modesty and truthfulness.
And He Never told lie..........................

Behold! Thou didst say to one who had received the grace of Allah and thy favour: "Retain thou (in wedlock) thy wife, and fear Allah." But thou didst hide in thy heart that which Allah was about to make manifest: thou didst fear the people, but it is more fitting that thou shouldst fear Allah. Then when Zaid had dissolved (his marriage) with her, with the necessary (formality), We joined her in marriage to thee: in order that (in future) there may be no difficulty to the Believers in (the matter of) marriage with the wives of their adopted sons, when the latter have dissolved with the necessary (formality) (their marriage) with them. And Allah's command must be fulfilled. ........... Al-Ahzab,, Verse #37

Yap.. Be Hold... hold tightly., Never let good looking women go..even if she is adopted son's wife.. Be hold ... yes..yes.. And He Never told lie..

At least if that fucking shit was in hadith., I would have out rightly rejected it..

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- Rubaya
- Pub Regular
- offline
Al-Amin? So What?
Reply #10 - June 03, 2014, 06:14 AM

Now if Muhammad had a habit of drinking wine then he would have received the title of 'the Drinker' or something like that. Those titles are based on such silly things, I mean 'Who Gathers People'? Are you serious?
- yeezevee
- Pub Regular
- offline
Al-Amin? So What?
Reply #11 - June 03, 2014, 11:12 AM

Quote from: Rubaya on June 03, 2014, 06:14 AM
Now if Muhammad had a habit of drinking wine then he would have received the title of 'the Drinker' or something like that. Those titles are based on such silly things, I mean 'Who Gathers People'? Are you serious?

well that is the reason I gave Prophet of Islam Mr. PBUH new Title .."SODOM.."

Now you guys tell me., what "PBUH" and "SODOM" stands for? Well all those 99 titles of Muhammad. or Allah is to brain wash children all the way until they are 30 year old.,After that some of these grown ups turn in to BABOONS and some don't know what the hell they should with their lives.. that is the end result of brain washing children with silly stories of Muhammad ..Allah.. Caliphs..Imams, mullahs .. Jihadis., Jannah death squads and whatnot. Off course all those stories should be laced with some Wonderful Islamic Nasheed. well watch what they do to children in Mosque schools ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf1Ilwd4USQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToUCQijiGVE

such Islamic techniques work in East and west irrespective of the culture they were born in to..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-YdO9DC6AI
Add a dose good sounding Islamic Nasheed along with that brain wash, we can open 1000s of schools and generate millions of confused 20 year olds walking around the globe in the name of allah doll for the sake of allah doll.
We can see tons of tubes to see what children to in Madrassa schools
Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xp_64edEYWA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvUCpINlL7w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrwkenfGNOA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-aXWnhAfhA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYNUtpUkRO0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l04mUjBa2_g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvSNIjyw0eg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUSqgL991cE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Lvdv_4polk

Why Muslims Lack Science and rational thinking
Quote
http://tribune.com.pk/story/326941/the-trouble-with-madrassas-in-pakistan/

There are around 18-24,000 registered madrassas in Pakistan. There are countless more unregistered seminaries.

• There are as many as 83 illegally constructed mosques and seminaries in Islamabad alone.

• The ministry of interior provides madrassas — including illegal ones — with walk-through gates, along with police officials for security.

90 per cent of foreigners studying in religious seminaries across the Punjab have expired visas.

Quote
http://www.dawn.com/news/666196/madrassa-graduates-and-labour-market-mismatches

....twice as many students were enrolled in the 12,500 madrassas than in the 124-odd universities....

It is sickening to read that school statistics in land of pure

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
1« Previous thread | Next thread »