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 Topic: doctor who refused to make an abortion on a sick fetus is being sacked

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  • doctor who refused to make an abortion on a sick fetus is being sacked
     OP - July 12, 2014, 08:11 AM
    Last spring there was this thing in the news in Poland. A doctor and director of Holy Family Hospital in Warsaw, professor Bogdan Chazan refused to make an abortion on a fetus even though it was sure the baby would die soon after birth. He quoted so called "conscience clause", lately very popular among Polish health care.  More info about conscience clause here: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscience_clause_(medical)
    He also refused to redirect the woman to other doctor, saying that he doesn't know anyone who would perform abortion.  Couple of theys ago it was said he's being sacked by the mayor of Warsaw, Hanna Gronkiewicz-Waltz. His hospital was fined 70000zl (around £13000). By the way, that baby was born and died 3 days ago.

    This is really scary. Poland was always strongly catholic but now it seems catholics are really taking over the country. If a doctor refuses to do a LEGAL abortion because of his religion and he gets a huge support from half of the country's population then it shows how extreme in religion Poles become. It's not only old people that stood in front of his hospital with pro-life posters. There were lots of young people too. When I read the comments from 15, 20 year olds saying prof. Chazan is a hero and that mother will burn in hell it really freaks me out.
  • doctor who refused to make an abortion on a sick fetus is being sacked
     Reply #1 - July 12, 2014, 09:41 AM
    A Polish friend of mine bought me a Christian religious ornament as a gift. She even told me that she and her mum had chosen it because they had noticed that there were no religious items or decorations in my house. I smiled and said thanks when she gave it to me, as one does when receiving a gift.

    Religious people can be so presumptuous it's annoying and I must admit I wasn't expecting it from a Christian. We've received out fair share of those Islamic embroidered pictures in our time too, none of which I can proudly say hang in my house.....yet!
  • doctor who refused to make an abortion on a sick fetus is being sacked
     Reply #2 - July 12, 2014, 10:31 AM
    Most of the people in Poland have crosses in their houses. They usually try not to eat meat on fridays. It's all pretty harmless. But when they want to make some catholic state out of Poland, then it is dangerous. And that's what this "conscience clause" is all about. People supporting it don't want secular country, they want god's law.
    One more thing. Religious Education classes at school.  It's not about religions in general, it's strictly about christisnity, mainly catholicism. Plus, it's obligatory unless you attend RE classes somewhere else - at Kingdom Hall, mosque or other religious school. There is sometimes a possibility for atheists to attend ethics classes instead. In reality, most schools don't offer such classes though. Mine did but i had to wait 3 hours after school for it to start, then spend another 1,5h there. When it was finally finished, it was around 6pm while my christian classmates went home after 1p.m.
  • doctor who refused to make an abortion on a sick fetus is being sacked
     Reply #3 - July 12, 2014, 10:40 AM
    Quote from: exmuslimah on July 12, 2014, 10:31 AM
    . Religious Education classes at school.  It's not about religions in general, it's strictly about christisnity, mainly catholicism. Plus, it's obligatory

    I had obligatory RE at school, Anglican Christianity and nothing else. It wasn't very threatening to freedom of thought or secularism.

    Perhaps a problem in Britain is that many policy makers have grown up with this brand of secularised RE, and imagine that all religious educators will be as undogmatic as theirs were.
  • doctor who refused to make an abortion on a sick fetus is being sacked
     Reply #4 - July 12, 2014, 12:41 PM
    And we tend not to call it Religious Education any more but Religous (and Ethical) Studies. We analyse and evaluate issues rather than promote religious instruction as was done in the past. I will be teaching this next year as part of my new role!
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • doctor who refused to make an abortion on a sick fetus is being sacked
     Reply #5 - July 12, 2014, 01:16 PM
    ^ I think that's the best way to go, as long as it involves a pluralistic outlook, debate and incorporates a historical perspective then it's fine.

    As for the abortion story, I read about this a few days ago and yet again the anti-abortionists show how intelligent they are. They call the doctor a hero for not aborting a fetus, yet the baby died within 3 days (which they were sure to happen).
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
     Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
     Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
     Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God." - Epicurus
  • doctor who refused to make an abortion on a sick fetus is being sacked
     Reply #6 - July 12, 2014, 01:46 PM
    Do you have some links to the story exmuslimah?
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • doctor who refused to make an abortion on a sick fetus is being sacked
     Reply #7 - July 12, 2014, 02:06 PM
    Quote from: Naz on July 12, 2014, 01:16 PM
    ^ I think that's the best way to go, as long as it involves a pluralistic outlook, debate and incorporates a historical perspective then it's fine.

    As for the abortion story, I read about this a few days ago and yet again the anti-abortionists show how intelligent they are. They call the doctor a hero for not aborting a fetus, yet the baby died within 3 days (which they were sure to happen).


    Unfortunately there's little/no historical perspective. That would take too long. It's more contemporary source than historical. As a history teacher though I'll gve it a historical spin when the opportunity arises.
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • doctor who refused to make an abortion on a sick fetus is being sacked
     Reply #8 - July 12, 2014, 03:38 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on July 12, 2014, 01:46 PM
    Do you have some links to the story exmuslimah?





    goood fire the fool from the job..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • doctor who refused to make an abortion on a sick fetus is being sacked
     Reply #9 - July 12, 2014, 04:23 PM
    I didn't realise they were talking about it outside of Poland. Shame for Poland.
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