Ridda Wars & "No compulsion in religion"

1« Previous thread | Next thread »
- Rashna
- Pub Regular
- offline
Ridda Wars & "No compulsion in religion"
OP - September 15, 2009, 04:21 PM

I was just wondering, how do Muslims reconcile their beliefs that there's "No compulsion in religion, " with the Ridda Wars?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ridda_wars

I know the ways they have managed to explain away the massacres of Jews & the destruction of idols on the kaaba, but the Ridda Rebels only fault was simply apostatizing!

Quote from: wikipedia
Apart from their specific objectives, the corps commanders were given the following instructions:
1.Seek the tribes which are your objectives
2.Call the Azaan.
3.If the tribe answers with the Azaan, do not attack. After the Azaan, ask the tribe to confirm its submission, including the payment of zakat. If confirmed, do not attack.
4.Those who submit will not be attacked.
5.Those who do not answer with the Azaan, or after the Azaan do not confirm full submission, will be dealt with by sword.
6.All apostates who have killed Muslims will be killed.
With these instructions Abu Bakr launched the forces of Islam against the apostates.

In other words, only if they answer the Muslim call to prayer ie tha azaan with azaan will they be spared!

So they have to remain Muslims or be !

How do Muslims believe that there is "No compulsion in religion," & the instances of compulsion were infrequent in Muslim history, as Islam was retained through massive force during these redda wars?

World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
- panoptic
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Ridda Wars & "No compulsion in religion"
Reply #1 - September 15, 2009, 06:15 PM

The new class that came to power had to defend itself against counter-revolution led by the old class (namely, the mercantile bourgeoisie). This is a process of state formation.

"...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
- Manat
- Great googa mooga!
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Ridda Wars & "No compulsion in religion"
Reply #2 - September 15, 2009, 07:17 PM

As a hypocritical Muslim, I was taught that the ridda wars, despite their name, were over the financial rebellion of some Arabian tribes against the new state power - the government of Abu Bakr. As a munafiq Muslim who never did a single positive thing in life, I was taught that the dispute was not over these tribes disavowing salat or the shahatain, or hajj, but that they were refusing to pay zakat to the fledgling state because they felt they should no longer have to give the money since Mo was dead. I know now, of course, that this was foolish and hypocritical of me to accept. How dare I believe my Muslim teachers? Of course, taking the cynical view that, indeed, Abu Bakr was trying to gather up all the money for the state since he was a political leader would also be wrong of me, since Muslims all just want to kill and behead in the name Allah's jihad.

[this space for rent]
- Quod Sum Eris
- King of the
- Pub Regular
- offline
Ridda Wars & "No compulsion in religion"
Reply #3 - April 18, 2014, 02:51 AM

Bump.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
- Kodanshi
- La solitude s'eprend de mon coeur
- Ex-Muslim
- *Careful Plague & Scarred Joy*
- offline
Ridda Wars & "No compulsion in religion"
Reply #4 - April 18, 2014, 11:45 AM

The simple fact of the matter is: ‘no compulsion in religion’, taken in context of its placement in the qur’an and the circumstances of its ‘revelation’, means people should not force muslims to abandon their religion through (forcible) conversion. It has nothing to do with ACTUAL freedom of religion.
- Zimriel
- Member
- offline
Ridda Wars & "No compulsion in religion"
Reply #5 - January 25, 2015, 06:01 PM

Many scholars are coming around to seeing the Ridda - if it happened - as more a "war" than a "civil war". Pourshariati dates the conquest of Iraq to the 620s; Shoemaker has the Prophet later known as "Muhammad" / "Mahmet" still alive when Palestine is conquered. So nowadays Robert Hoyland ("Seeing Islam") is putting one and one together and seeing Arabs conquering in two directions with little or no co-ordination between them.

It's reasonable to suggest that the Hijazi aristocracy, associated with Madinat Yathrib and Muhammad, would want to exert some discipline over the eastern Arabs. Qurashis like Sa'd bin Abi Waqqas and Ash'aris like Abu Musa would then have been imposed over the east as commanders.

The problem I'm having is that I'm not seeing the evidence for *any* war in the non-Muslim sources. Also its main historian seems to be Tabari `an Sayf bin `Umar and I am afraid I do not trust Sayf one bit.
- yeezevee
- Pub Regular
- offline
Ridda Wars & "No compulsion in religion"
Reply #6 - January 25, 2015, 06:37 PM

Quote

Quote from: Zimriel on January 25, 2015, 06:01 PM
Ridda -Ridda wars of Islam".

............................The problem I'm having is that I'm not seeing the evidence for *any* war in the non-Muslim sources.............

Hello Zimriel ., greetings., all that history of early Islam explored by 20/ 21st century historians Shoemaker.,Robert Hoyland or Patrica Crone is different from ridda wars that you read in early Islam from Muslim sources
Quote
.........Many scholars ..........].

Well Islam confuses hell out of everyone including those who explore its history.. again Ridda wars were those attacks/wars that happened immediately after the death of alleged Prophet of Islam in the years 632-and 633.. a very specific period when Abu BAKRAH .. alleged sahaba and alleged father in law of Muhammad became 1st rightly guided caliph of Islam..

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- cosmicdancer
- Pub Regular
- offline
Ridda Wars & "No compulsion in religion"
Reply #7 - January 25, 2015, 07:25 PM

Quote from: Zimriel on January 25, 2015, 06:01 PM
Many scholars are coming around to seeing the Ridda - if it happened - as more a "war" than a "civil war". Pourshariati dates the conquest of Iraq to the 620s; Shoemaker has the Prophet later known as "Muhammad" / "Mahmet" still alive when Palestine is conquered. So nowadays Robert Hoyland ("Seeing Islam") is putting one and one together and seeing Arabs conquering in two directions with little or no co-ordination between them.

It's reasonable to suggest that the Hijazi aristocracy, associated with Madinat Yathrib and Muhammad, would want to exert some discipline over the eastern Arabs. Qurashis like Sa'd bin Abi Waqqas and Ash'aris like Abu Musa would then have been imposed over the east as commanders.

The problem I'm having is that I'm not seeing the evidence for *any* war in the non-Muslim sources. Also its main historian seems to be Tabari `an Sayf bin `Umar and I am afraid I do not trust Sayf one bit.

Thanks, Zimriel - I appreciate your contribution

(Please don't take too much notice of Yeezevee - he means no harm - some find it best to just smile and ignore him.)
- cosmicdancer
- Pub Regular
- offline
Ridda Wars & "No compulsion in religion"
Reply #8 - January 25, 2015, 07:28 PM

Quote from: yeezevee on January 25, 2015, 06:37 PM
Pourshariati dates the conquest of Iraq to the 620s; Shoemaker has the Prophet later known as "Muhammad" / "Mahmet" still alive when Palestine is conquered. So nowadays Robert Hoyland ("Seeing Islam") is putting one and one together and seeing Arabs conquering in two directions with little or no co-ordination between them.

It's reasonable to suggest that the Hijazi aristocracy, associated with Madinat Yathrib and Muhammad, would want to exert some discipline over the eastern Arabs. Qurashis like Sa'd bin Abi Waqqas and Ash'aris like Abu Musa would then have been imposed over the east as commanders.

The problem I'm having is that I'm not seeing the evidence for *any* war in the non-Muslim sources. Also its main historian seems to be Tabari `an Sayf bin `Umar and I am afraid I do not trust Sayf one bit.
Hello Zimriel ., greetings., all that history of early Islam explored by 20/ 21st century historians Shoemaker.,Robert Hoyland or Patrica Crone is different from ridda wars that you read in early Islam from Muslim sources Well Islam confuses hell out of everyone including those who explore its history.. again Ridda wars were those attacks/wars that happened immediately after the death of alleged Prophet of Islam in the years 632-and 633.. a very specific period when Abu BAKRAH .. alleged sahaba and alleged father in law of Muhammad became 1st rightly guided caliph of Islam..

Yeezevee, please remember new members are not familiar with your... "style", not to mention striking through someone's post is somewhat rude - so please... please... please... try to be a little more sensitive, especially with new members - and tone it down a bit.

Thanks
- yeezevee
- Pub Regular
- offline
Ridda Wars & "No compulsion in religion"
Reply #9 - January 25, 2015, 09:12 PM

Quote from: Abu Ali on January 25, 2015, 07:28 PM
Yeezevee, please remember new members are not familiar with your... "style", not to mention striking through someone's post is somewhat rude - so please... please... please... try to be a little more sensitive, especially with new members - and tone it down a bit.

Thanks

oh really? damn... i used do that all the time for the past 15 years.. well let me delete all that ., and dear Zimriel as Abu Mustfa ali pointed out.. don't take that serious and don't take serious on any posts of Ibn yeezevee

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
1« Previous thread | Next thread »