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 Topic: Satellite Prophecy in Hadith

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  • Satellite Prophecy in Hadith
     OP - February 20, 2015, 12:24 AM
    Muslim Apologist Hamza Yusuf claims Prophet Mo predicted satellites in a certain hadith.

    The claim is that this hadith predicts the invention of satellite dishes.   The phrase in the hadith in arabic is تواصل الاطباق 

    which means that " the dishes will be communicating continuously with each other ".   

    Here is the video. The relevant hadith is at 1:01. Is the translation accurate ? If not how would you explain this hadith as a non muslim ? 

    Are there any other meanings you could assign to it other than satellite dishes ?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z68IhbI3Q3c
    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Satellite Prophecy in Hadith
     Reply #1 - February 20, 2015, 12:25 AM
    Response from CEMB's  Abu Ali.   


    Just another case of seeing what one wants to see in order to confirm beliefs.

    This is the hadith in Arabic:

    http://library.islamweb.net/hadith/display_hbook.php?bk_no=747&pid=373019&hid=2062

    It relates various signs of the day of judgment in rhyming saj' style of mystic statements such as:

     أَنْ يَكُونَ الْوَلَدُ غَيْظًا ، وَأَنْ يَكُونَ الْمَطَرُ قَيْظًا ، وَأَنْ يَفِيضَ الْأَشْرَارُ فَيْضًا ، يَا ابْنَ مَسْعُودٍ , إِنَّ مِنْ أَعْلَامِ السَّاعَةِ وَأَشْرَاطِهَا , أَنْ يُؤْتَمَنَ الْخَائِنُ ، وَأَنْ يُخَوَّنُ الْأَمِينُ ، يَا ابْنَ مَسْعُودٍ , إِنَّ مِنْ أَعْلَامِ السَّاعَةِ وَأَشْرَاطِهَا , أَنْ تُوَاصَلَ الْأَطْبَاقُ ، وَتُقَاطَعَ الْأَرْحَامُ

    "Indeed the child will be angry/bad-tempered and the rain will be hot. Evils will pour out in a flood. Oh ibn mas'ud indeed the hour has it's signs and conditions, the treacherous will be trusted while the trustworthy will be distrusted. Oh ibn mas'ud indeed the hour has it's signs and conditions the masses will mix with each other while family ties will be cut..."

     تُوَاصَلَ الْأَطْبَاقُ

    I translated this as: "the masses will mix with each other"

    Hamza Yusuf translates it as "the dishes will contact each other."

    Here's a link supporting the view that Atbaq is used here in the sense of layers (of society) i.e. different people, strangers, foreigners.

    http://www.alukah.net/sharia/0/42580/

    قوله تواصل الأطباق: أي البعداء والأجانب

    Which makes more sense since it is in opposition to cutting family ties. i.e. 'one of the awful thing is that strangers will keep relationships while families won't.'
    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Satellite Prophecy in Hadith
     Reply #2 - February 20, 2015, 08:56 AM
    Is this a new thing with Hamza Yusuf?  I mean weirdness?

    Back in the day I thought he was ok, though admittedly I didn't listen to him a great deal.
  • Satellite Prophecy in Hadith
     Reply #3 - February 20, 2015, 09:08 AM
    Btw I suspect many such "hadith" were a much later fabrication when the Muslims spread into Iraq, Syria and Egypt and such terrible "ills" such as strangers mixing and families losing contact,  horrified the older generations from the Hijaz.

    Another thing to note is all the hadith about the "last hour" (qiyamah) clearly assume it's imminent, ie the youngsters will see it.
  • Satellite Prophecy in Hadith
     Reply #4 - February 20, 2015, 09:23 AM
    Quote from: Abu Ali on February 20, 2015, 08:56 AM
    Is this a new thing with Hamza Yusuf?  I mean weirdness?

    Back in the day I thought he was ok, though admittedly I didn't listen to him a great deal.

    heck no. Hanson was weird from the get go. His weirdness mellowed as time goes by. I think that you're more familiar with his later stage in life, this appearance of a moderate guy who's working for zaytuna college, mixing with the fons vitae crowd, etc. Back then he was full blown conspiracy theorist, talking about new world order, the dajjal, the west corrupting muslims by various instruments, etc.
    "we stand firm calling to allah all the time,
    we let them know - bang! bang! - coz it's dawah time!"
  • Satellite Prophecy in Hadith
     Reply #5 - February 20, 2015, 02:18 PM
    Well I must admit I never really followed much of what he said or wrote. I just knew he was the darling of many Muslims at the time.
  • Satellite Prophecy in Hadith
     Reply #6 - February 21, 2015, 09:21 PM
    @abu ali.

    Hamza Yusuf gave a lecture at a conference a few months back.  He started by ranting about homosexuality being one of the greatest health hazards on the planet and went on to talk about the signs of judgement.


    Oh and at another talk he tried to argue that watching internet porn causes people to carry out terrorist attacks and not islamic scripture. (No joke he was completely serious)

    Hamza Yusuf is a complete crackpot.

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Satellite Prophecy in Hadith
     Reply #7 - February 21, 2015, 09:52 PM
    'Crackpot' is a great word, especially said in a Scouse accent.
  • Satellite Prophecy in Hadith
     Reply #8 - February 21, 2015, 10:29 PM
    Quote from: TheDarkRebel on February 21, 2015, 09:21 PM
    @abu ali.

    Hamza Yusuf gave a lecture at a conference a few months back.  He started by ranting about homosexuality being one of the greatest health hazards on the planet and went on to talk about the signs of judgement.


    Oh and at another talk he tried to argue that watching internet porn causes people to carry out terrorist attacks and not islamic scripture. (No joke he was completely serious)

    Hamza Yusuf is a complete crackpot.




    I see that now. However it's surprising how much one can miss when under the influence of faith.
  • Satellite Prophecy in Hadith
     Reply #9 - February 21, 2015, 11:15 PM
    Watching porn and getting frustrated cause can't get the real deal cause of an "OMG, sex, zina, shaytan, honour, keeping up with the joneses, refuse to admit child has a partner" culture I would say is a cause of terrorism. 1 - see access to sex slaves, 2 - see access to easy going obedient wives, 3 - can rape non-believers with impunity cause they are scummy kuffar anyway!
  • Satellite Prophecy in Hadith
     Reply #10 - February 22, 2015, 01:46 AM
    Quote from: TheDarkRebel on February 20, 2015, 12:25 AM
    تُوَاصَلَ الْأَطْبَاقُ
    Hamza Yusuf translates it as "the dishes will contact each other."

    He almost got it right:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHo9rm_ddjc

    ...It's just too easy to make stuff like that up. We are hard coded to see patterns around us. It's in the bloody brain.
  • Satellite Prophecy in Hadith
     Reply #11 - February 22, 2015, 11:17 AM
    So true.
  • Satellite Prophecy in Hadith
     Reply #12 - October 20, 2018, 10:17 PM
    Just another case of seeing what one wants to see in order to confirm beliefs.

    This is the hadith in Arabic:

    http://library.islamweb.net/hadith/display_hbook.php?bk_no=747&pid=373019&hid=2062

    It relates various signs of the day of judgment in rhyming saj' style of mystic statements such as:

     أَنْ يَكُونَ الْوَلَدُ غَيْظًا ، وَأَنْ يَكُونَ الْمَطَرُ قَيْظًا ، وَأَنْ يَفِيضَ الْأَشْرَارُ فَيْضًا ، يَا ابْنَ مَسْعُودٍ , إِنَّ مِنْ أَعْلَامِ السَّاعَةِ وَأَشْرَاطِهَا , أَنْ يُؤْتَمَنَ الْخَائِنُ ، وَأَنْ يُخَوَّنُ الْأَمِينُ ، يَا ابْنَ مَسْعُودٍ , إِنَّ مِنْ أَعْلَامِ السَّاعَةِ وَأَشْرَاطِهَا , أَنْ تُوَاصَلَ الْأَطْبَاقُ ، وَتُقَاطَعَ الْأَرْحَامُ

    "Indeed the child will be angry/bad-tempered and the rain will be hot. Evils will pour out in a flood. Oh ibn mas'ud indeed the hour has it's signs and conditions, the treacherous will be trusted while the trustworthy will be distrusted. Oh ibn mas'ud indeed the hour has it's signs and conditions the strangers, foreigners will mix/interact with each other while family relations/ties will be cut..."

     تُوَاصَلَ الْأَطْبَاقُ

    I translate this as: "strangers, foreigners will associate/be in contact with each other"

    You can see that the two statements are connected.

    Good will be bad while the bad will be good
    Old will be servants while the young will be masters
    Treacherous will be trusted while the trustworthy will be distrusted
    Strangers will consort while families will be estranged

    Here's a link supporting the view that Atbaq is used here in the sense of different levels/sections (of society) i.e. strangers, foreigners.

    Ibn Atheer in the book “Al-Nihaaya” & Ibn Manzur in Lisan Al-Arab both said

    يعني : بالأطباق البعداء والأجانب ; لأن طبقات الناس أصناف مختلفة 

    http://library.islamweb.net/newlibrary/display_book.php?bk_no=121&ID=324&idfrom=2297&idto=2378&bookid=121&startno=7

    http://islamweb.net/newlibrary/display_book.php?bk_no=122&ID=&idfrom=4965&idto=5216&bookid=122&startno=17

    Which makes more sense since it is in opposition to cutting family ties. i.e. 'one of the awful thing is that strangers will keep relationships while families won't.'

    btw the signs of the last hour are bad things - but what’s wrong with communicating by satellite? Doesn’t Hamza Yusuf use the internet and watch satellite TV?
  • Satellite Prophecy in Hadith
     Reply #13 - October 21, 2018, 12:49 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on October 20, 2018, 10:17 PM
    I noticed the link I gave is no longer working. So here are two more FYI

    Just another case of seeing what one wants to see in order to confirm beliefs.

    good to see you dear Hassan.,  well it is everywhere in every faith.,  So  Islam is no exception to this  confirmatory bias to confirm their belief.  As long as people are free to question their silly faiths .. such nonsense will not stand in the present time of mass communication/education  through internet...

    well  dime a dozen  prophecies from every faith

    Quote
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dm7jheA5g50

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCo_XTWBcc8

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyCYH0al0eI

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5fscN248qA

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_L5ljbNjI8

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TSzWavnOcI


    here is that fool  ..  That  converted Mark  Hansen talking about the prophecy  you are talking..  He could have done better and contributed better to the society as Male Nurse than a FOOLISH  ISLAMIC PREACHER

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rFCvOe4OEk

    Quote
    Quote
    This is the hadith in Arabic:

    http://library.islamweb.net/hadith/display_hbook.php?bk_no=747&pid=373019&hid=2062

    It relates various si

    gns of the day of judgment in rhyming saj' style of mystic statements such as:

     أَنْ يَكُونَ الْوَلَدُ غَيْظًا ، وَأَنْ يَكُونَ الْمَطَرُ قَيْظًا ، وَأَنْ يَفِيضَ الْأَشْرَارُ فَيْضًا ، يَا ابْنَ مَسْعُودٍ , إِنَّ مِنْ أَعْلَامِ السَّاعَةِ وَأَشْرَاطِهَا , أَنْ يُؤْتَمَنَ الْخَائِنُ ، وَأَنْ يُخَوَّنُ الْأَمِينُ ، يَا ابْنَ مَسْعُودٍ , إِنَّ مِنْ أَعْلَامِ السَّاعَةِ وَأَشْرَاطِهَا , أَنْ تُوَاصَلَ الْأَطْبَاقُ ، وَتُقَاطَعَ الْأَرْحَامُ

    "Indeed the child will be angry/bad-tempered and the rain will be hot. Evils will pour out in a flood. Oh ibn mas'ud indeed the hour has it's signs and conditions, the treacherous will be trusted while the trustworthy will be distrusted. Oh ibn mas'ud indeed the hour has it's signs and conditions the strangers, foreigners will mix/interact with each other while family relations/ties will be cut..."

     تُوَاصَلَ الْأَطْبَاقُ

    I translated this as: "strangers, foreigners will mix/interact with each other"

    Hamza Yusuf translates it as "the dishes will contact each other."

    Here's a link supporting the view that Atbaq is used here in the sense of different levels/sections (of society) i.e. strangers, foreigners.

    Ibn Atheer in the book “Al-Nihaaya” & Ibn Manzur in Lisan Al-Arab both said

    يعني : بالأطباق البعداء والأجانب ; لأن طبقات الناس أصناف مختلفة 

    http://library.islamweb.net/newlibrary/display_book.php?bk_no=121&ID=324&idfrom=2297&idto=2378&bookid=121&startno=7

    http://islamweb.net/newlibrary/display_book.php?bk_no=122&ID=&idfrom=4965&idto=5216&bookid=122&startno=17

    Which makes more sense since it is in opposition to cutting family ties. i.e. 'one of the awful thing is that strangers will keep relationships while families won't.'


    well more from that Mark Hansen aka Hamza Yousuf ..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmmtX8nt_VU

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dANVf61K8Ak

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCaMkB3E-KI

    Hmm,, That first video appears to be true ..MANY DAJJALS   IN THIS DAMN FORUM  finmad finmad

    with best wishes
    yeezevee
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
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