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 Topic: Naive conceptions for the existence of God

 (Read 2444 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Naive conceptions for the existence of God
     OP - August 15, 2009, 08:45 AM

    Guys

    Check out some of the piffle some individuals come out with when it comes to proving the existence of a creator. I've taken this from an FB group where I'm one of the admins.

    "It is really quite simple. God exists because the universe exists, in its macro and micro dimension, the micro dimension being u.

    There is no way for any creation to exist without the creator. And we, who are the most intelligent beings, we know that we have not created the universe.

    And if you ask, who created God, something everyone who disbelieves in the existance of God asks, the answer is that by asking this question u r saying that God is created. But God is not created, nobody claims that God is a creation. God is THE CREATOR. The Creator that u cannot deny because creation is all and everywhere around you."

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "everything that comes into being speaks of a creator that made it come into being. So everything u see celebrates the praises of God by their existance.
    If you say who created God you confirm that everything that comes into existance is a creation and that a creation cannot be without a creator.

    God is that Creator. Logically speaking, it is impossible to deny that God exists."

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "And how so? What has emotion to do with the logic that everything created testifies to a creator? We all know that the universe came into existance at one stage in time .. the Big Bang Theory!! So the universe is a creation that happened at one point in time and therefore testifies to a creator. So do we. So does every living thing that comes into existance at one point in time."

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "The fact that there was the effect of a big bang tells us that there was a cause that made it happen. This is science. No effect without a cause and no cause without its effect. This is the law of science. Nothing happens without something to cause it to happen. The Big Bang speaks of the fact that the Universe was together before it split apart. Dont u see this?"

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "And He who made it come together is also He who made it split apart. If you got back to the first cause .. u will find God."

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "The proof is in the eating as they say. You have a cause, you have the effect, u have to have a creator to set cause and effect into motion."

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "There is only one God.Allah is the Arabic name for the Creator of all things, for GOD, your and mine and everything there is."

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "I got your point. You want an explanation that is based on rational science.
    I said that creation cannot be without that there is a creator who created it.
    This is logic based on observation. "

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    ....and just in case you haven't slashed your wrists yet! Here's her take on evolution!

    "Muslims who deny evolution do not know what they saying. Qur'an clearly reveals that Allah is the Evolver of forms, that Allah has created us GROWING.. that there was a long time before man became mentioned on earth.

    But just because we didnt look as we look now for a long time, this does not mean that Darwin got it right. Darwin's evolution has a missing link. Darwin could not explain how it is possible for primitive ape-man to turn into intelligent human being. Islam can explain this. For God taught Adam the names of all things, breathed of His Spirit into Adam). It is only because of this, because God had created us in perfection in the very beginning, that we unfolded the way we have, that primitive ape-man changed into intelligent man.

    It is like the chicken and egg story. The chicken gives the egg and out of the egg a chicken grows, beginning as a lil chick that grows to its full size in proper time. Allah is the Creator of all things and the Evolver of forms. The perfect human being was (is) already hidden in the seed."

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    After a while it really makes you ill.   Cry Cry Cry
  • Re: Naive conceptions for the existence of God
     Reply #1 - August 15, 2009, 10:15 AM

    I enjoy reading the arguments that philosophers and theologians put together for and against the existence of God. But sometimes I find that they postulate way too much and leave themselves open for serious attack. Just the very incoherent description given in all the god-centric religions is enough to render those dieties out of existence.
  • Re: Naive conceptions for the existence of God
     Reply #2 - August 15, 2009, 10:24 AM

    I know this makes me sound like a typical snobby stuck up atheist but .......why are they so babyish? Huh? 

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Naive conceptions for the existence of God
     Reply #3 - August 15, 2009, 10:26 AM

    They rely on incoherence. It's the same with Christianity as it is with Islam. There's an old saying that theology is "explaining the unknowable in terms of the not worth knowing" and this is pretty much spot on IMO. The word "theology" means "the study of god" but they aren't really studying anything. They're just speculating on very thin grounds, which is why they have to build towers of important sounding bullshit.

    Take the Trinity. No Christian really knows what it means. It doesn't make a bit of sense and they know this but can't afford to admit it. So they bluff and waffle and turn a blind eye and keep on saying how great it is.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Naive conceptions for the existence of God
     Reply #4 - August 15, 2009, 10:32 AM

    I know this makes me sound like a typical snobby stuck up atheist but .......why are they so babyish? Huh? 


    Exactly my sentiments. I often wonder if they read works on philosophy or other ideas.
  • Re: Naive conceptions for the existence of God
     Reply #5 - August 15, 2009, 10:52 AM

    What bugs me most is their usual line: "experience tells us that everything needs a creator".

    Except experience tells the opposite: we never ever witness anything being created. All we have seen so far is the rearrangement in space of a lot of tiny things that were already existing to begin with.

    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Naive conceptions for the existence of God
     Reply #6 - August 15, 2009, 10:53 AM

    On a side note, mereological nihilism is kinda cool Grin

    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Naive conceptions for the existence of God
     Reply #7 - August 15, 2009, 10:57 AM

    I have often noticed that theists seem to be in love with words. The way something is expressed is more important to them than what it actually means when you cut through all the crap. If you can take a basic concept and obfuscate it sufficiently with wonderful sounding fluff then they'll love you to bits for it.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Naive conceptions for the existence of God
     Reply #8 - August 15, 2009, 11:15 AM

    Take the Trinity. No Christian really knows what it means. It doesn't make a bit of sense and they know this but can't afford to admit it. So they bluff and waffle and turn a blind eye and keep on saying how great it is.


    The clergy often claims that it's very complex to understand. I'd attended a sermon on this at a retreat a long while ago. At the end of it, I was more confused. I thought it was some sort of abstraction to complex spiritual realities.

    But, then if it could be comprehended, there wouldn't be any mystery and it wouldn't be faith anymore. The faithful often have ways of partially explaining it even in terms of scientific analogy, without breaking the ultimate mystery. In Bill Maher's Religulous, when a Christian was questioned about this, he says it's like the three states of Water, Ice, Water and Steam, which are all the one and the same, yet different manifestations!

    As Pat Condell says, "In Theology, you can dress up your God anyway you like". Even strict monotheism is actually polytheism in disguise. A single God would need multiple brains to simultaneously listen to prayers of millions of people, unless he's doing amazingly fast multitasking, an argument which could also be applied to the Trinity or a million gods rotating their personalities rapidly.


    "God is a geometer" - Plato

    "God is addicted to arithmetic" - Sir James Jeans
  • Re: Naive conceptions for the existence of God
     Reply #9 - August 15, 2009, 11:38 AM

    ....and just in case you haven't slashed your wrists yet! Here's her take on evolution!

    "Muslims who deny evolution do not know what they saying. Qur'an clearly reveals that Allah is the Evolver of forms, that Allah has created us GROWING.. that there was a long time before man became mentioned on earth.

    But just because we didnt look as we look now for a long time, this does not mean that Darwin got it right. Darwin's evolution has a missing link. Darwin could not explain how it is possible for primitive ape-man to turn into intelligent human being. Islam can explain this. For God taught Adam the names of all things, breathed of His Spirit into Adam). It is only because of this, because God had created us in perfection in the very beginning, that we unfolded the way we have, that primitive ape-man changed into intelligent man.

    It is like the chicken and egg story. The chicken gives the egg and out of the egg a chicken grows, beginning as a lil chick that grows to its full size in proper time. Allah is the Creator of all things and the Evolver of forms. The perfect human being was (is) already hidden in the seed."


    It is good to see a theistic evolutionist once in a while. It's possible to be intelligent and religious at the same time. All you need to do is consider your holy text as metaphors. An example is the genetic scientist Francis Collins.


    "God is a geometer" - Plato

    "God is addicted to arithmetic" - Sir James Jeans
  • Re: Naive conceptions for the existence of God
     Reply #10 - August 15, 2009, 11:41 AM

    Or, if you think about it carefully, if some god really created the universe and knows before hand anything that is going to happen...
    God basically had/has (since it's supposed to be timeless) in its own mind a "virtual projection" of everything we are and everything we will do.
    The personality of each of us is inside a godly simulation in the godly mind.

    You can apply that same concept to any polytheist or pantheist idea.

    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Naive conceptions for the existence of God
     Reply #11 - August 15, 2009, 12:02 PM

    I know this makes me sound like a typical snobby stuck up atheist but .......why are they so babyish? Huh? 

    The concept of God to them is as soothing as a baby's dummy.  Once you deny them this pleasure, then you'll get the same intellectual reaction from them as you'd expect from a one month old.

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