Propaganda war: trusting what we see?

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- Baal
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Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
Reply #90 - January 11, 2009, 09:06 AM

Quote from: Cheetah on January 11, 2009, 01:07 AM
Quote from: Variable
There are things Israel could do right now to negate the missile threat from a defensive posture, and not have to invade, or launch airstrikes or anything.

Can you give us some examples?

And also an example on how to negate suicide bombers. Since the big bad fence only reduced the frequency of the attacks and did not stop them.

Last I checked Bush had a solution for the missile, something about a few Billion dollar missile defense system that the Russians were laughing at.

"Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
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Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
Reply #91 - January 11, 2009, 09:08 AM

Quote from: Hassan on January 09, 2009, 01:31 PM
Israel shelled Palestinians after evacuating them, UN says

At least 30 people were killed in the Zeitoun district of Gaza after Israeli troops repeatedly shelled a house to which more than 100 Palestinians had been evacuated by the Israeli military, the UN said today...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/09/gaza-palestinians-israel-evacuees-zeitoun

(Clicky for piccy!)

Just to be clear, the above picture, is this a picture from an israeli attack? or a picture of a victim of a hamas-arab sponsored suicide bomber? They look awfully similar.

"Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
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Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
Reply #92 - January 11, 2009, 10:13 AM

A report by the Spiegel (left-liberal magazine) about how Hamas falsifies, suppresses and manipulates news from Gaza. Unfortunately only in German so far.
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,600567,00.html
Apparently, they have people on the ground, making journalists take certain pictures, stopping them from taking others (especially no pics of hamas militants fighting, shooting, killing...). They also "arrange" pictures - e.g. of dead children.
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Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
Reply #93 - January 11, 2009, 02:03 PM

Quote from: Hassan
They don't have to be omnipotent - just stop the settlement building, grabs for land and property and behaviour of the settlers and extremists within their own ranks.

Alright, I agree with you on this point, Israel should evacuate the illegal settlements. They do not actively endorse illegal settlements but they do not stop them, either. The disengagement from the Gaza Strip was a good beginning, but the war with Hezbollah ruined its potential.

On the other hand, the Israeli government is neither omniscient nor omnipotent. Many people ignore this simple logical fact, and I think this opinion is a quite diluted version of the malevolent omnipotence attributed to the Jewish people by some anti-Semitic circles. You know, Jews rule the world, Jews have golden hoards, etc. It is naive to assume that they would know the identity of every single Palestinian, and that they would kill or oppress civilians just because they want to.

Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
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Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
Reply #94 - January 11, 2009, 03:06 PM

Quote from: diotima on January 11, 2009, 10:13 AM
A report by the Spiegel (left-liberal magazine) about how Hamas falsifies, suppresses and manipulates news from Gaza. Unfortunately only in German so far.
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,600567,00.html
Apparently, they have people on the ground, making journalists take certain pictures, stopping them from taking others (especially no pics of hamas militants fighting, shooting, killing...). They also "arrange" pictures - e.g. of dead children.

Erm, don't you need at least a few dead children 'to arrange' for that to work?

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Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
Reply #95 - January 11, 2009, 03:43 PM

Quote from: sojournerlumus on January 11, 2009, 03:06 PM
Quote from: diotima on January 11, 2009, 10:13 AM
A report by the Spiegel (left-liberal magazine) about how Hamas falsifies, suppresses and manipulates news from Gaza. Unfortunately only in German so far.
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,600567,00.html
Apparently, they have people on the ground, making journalists take certain pictures, stopping them from taking others (especially no pics of hamas militants fighting, shooting, killing...). They also "arrange" pictures - e.g. of dead children.

Erm, don't you need at least a few dead children 'to arrange' for that to work?

No, not necessarily. I don't know the ins and outs of what Dio is talking about here, but common sense tells me that you don't need actual dead children to fake pictures of dead children.

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Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
Reply #96 - January 11, 2009, 09:51 PM

Quote from: Cheetah on January 11, 2009, 03:43 PM
Quote from: sojournerlumus on January 11, 2009, 03:06 PM
Quote from: diotima on January 11, 2009, 10:13 AM
A report by the Spiegel (left-liberal magazine) about how Hamas falsifies, suppresses and manipulates news from Gaza. Unfortunately only in German so far.
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,600567,00.html
Apparently, they have people on the ground, making journalists take certain pictures, stopping them from taking others (especially no pics of hamas militants fighting, shooting, killing...). They also "arrange" pictures - e.g. of dead children.

Erm, don't you need at least a few dead children 'to arrange' for that to work?

No, not necessarily. I don't know the ins and outs of what Dio is talking about here, but common sense tells me that you don't need actual dead children to fake pictures of dead children.

Some of you might remember the video where some jihadis staged their own executions by fake russian soldiers, then when the movie ended, the jihadis got off the floor and patted the camera director on the back.

However, in this conflict, we do have some dead children. So I do not think Hamas needs to pretend there is some dead children. What irks me the most though is, media in general will not show images of dead people from conflicts, from the 2 million that died in ruwanda, from the suicide bombing victims in the rest of the world, israel included. Yet 600 so far are dead, many of them a collateral that fell during an attack, on some of the scum of the scum, that humanity has to offer. And now, somehow it is okay to get the horrendous images out of the woodwork.

Plz do not get me wrong, I believe all images of conflicts have to be made public. I believe if images of victims of suicide bombings were made public all along, Hamas & Hezbolla would have been put in their place by the entire national community long time ago. But for now, it is suddenly okay to publish such pictures?

"Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
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Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
Reply #97 - January 11, 2009, 10:29 PM

Quote from: Baal on January 11, 2009, 09:51 PM
Quote from: Cheetah on January 11, 2009, 03:43 PM
Quote from: sojournerlumus on January 11, 2009, 03:06 PM
Quote from: diotima on January 11, 2009, 10:13 AM
A report by the Spiegel (left-liberal magazine) about how Hamas falsifies, suppresses and manipulates news from Gaza. Unfortunately only in German so far.
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,600567,00.html
Apparently, they have people on the ground, making journalists take certain pictures, stopping them from taking others (especially no pics of hamas militants fighting, shooting, killing...). They also "arrange" pictures - e.g. of dead children.

Erm, don't you need at least a few dead children 'to arrange' for that to work?

No, not necessarily. I don't know the ins and outs of what Dio is talking about here, but common sense tells me that you don't need actual dead children to fake pictures of dead children.

Some of you might remember the video where some jihadis staged their own executions by fake russian soldiers, then when the movie ended, the jihadis got off the floor and patted the camera director on the back.

However, in this conflict, we do have some dead children. So I do not think Hamas needs to pretend there is some dead children. What irks me the most though is, media in general will not show images of dead people from conflicts, from the 2 million that died in ruwanda, from the suicide bombing victims in the rest of the world, israel included. Yet 600 so far are dead, many of them a collateral that fell during an attack, on some of the scum of the scum, that humanity has to offer. And now, somehow it is okay to get the horrendous images out of the woodwork.

Plz do not get me wrong, I believe all images of conflicts have to be made public. I believe if images of victims of suicide bombings were made public all along, Hamas & Hezbolla would have been put in their place by the entire national community long time ago. But for now, it is suddenly okay to publish such pictures?

Michael Medved made the same point. Why are some victims given more importance than others?

The world is full of double standards. Most forums I go to have one or more threads about Gaza and all say that they are "of course against Hamas' rocket attacks against Israel", yet try as a might I can't seem to find the threads they started when it was going on the last few years. It's as if everyone just figures Hamas are terrorists so "what do you expect?" The threads don't usually start popping up until Israel retaliates.

I did read today that Israel is hinting that they're nearing the end of meeting their goals. This may signal a scaling down on their operations soon. I watched This Week With George Stephanapoulos and his panel had a good discussion on this whole conflict. For those who missed it or aren't able to see it, it's available for download as a podcast on iTunes.
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Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
Reply #98 - January 12, 2009, 01:34 PM

Quote from: osmanthus on January 04, 2009, 11:36 PM
Quote from: TomTom on January 04, 2009, 11:33 PM
Hassan,

Both sides use these tricks.

The real question is what is the final solution?

Most people in Israel want a two state solution - what do Hamas want?

Bad choice of words there.

I enjoy irony.
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Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
Reply #99 - January 12, 2009, 02:02 PM

On a more serious note, I'm with Iggy. It frustrates and upsets me that this is still going on. I wish it would all stop.

I think sojourner said it pretty well in his post.
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