Why it is impossible to debate with a muslim!

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Why it is impossible to debate with a muslim!
OP - March 15, 2009, 01:50 PM

Does anybody else find it impossible to debate with a muslim? They won't accept reason and just say one of a number of phrases that can be used in hundreds of situations!

You can't have read the Qur'an and understood it properly, because if you understood it, you would believe.

You need to be able to read the Qur'an in the original Arabic to get the right meaning

You are taking this verse out of context

There is no point arguing with you because you seem to have made your mind up

You have been misinformed/your knowledge of Islam is lacking

I think you should learn something about Islam

The reason you think/talk like that is because Shaytaan has taken you down the wrong path (which is impossible to prove!)

And so on......

Any thoughts?

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Re: Why it is impossible to debate with a muslim!
Reply #1 - March 15, 2009, 01:59 PM

When you debate with one and get these responses you usually are getting through to them, these are usually final defences (the other defences are Scientific miracles, Zakir Naik, linguistic misinterpretations, Zakir Naik, an attack against the Bible, Zakir Naik, Maurice Bucaile, Zakir Naik). So if you see this kind of rubbish it means they are having doubts themselves as this is what Muslims tell themselves to appease their conscience and doubts (I used to do the very same), you can't get past this brick wall because you would be trying to use logic to bring down something that has absolutely nothing to do with logic, it just doesn't work

At this stage you have either made the doubt in their mind grow to a disproportionate size, or they are beyond doubting because they have numbed their senses. It depends on how strong their conscience is and how deep into Islam they are.

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Re: Why it is impossible to debate with a muslim!
Reply #2 - March 15, 2009, 02:26 PM

Quote from: aliadiere on March 15, 2009, 01:50 PM

You can't have read the Qur'an and understood it properly, because if you understood it, you would believe.

You need to be able to read the Qur'an in the original Arabic to get the right meaning

Its funny how god who is supposed to be so good, made it impossible for the average man to comprehend his words. Should he not have told his words in clear cut words, rather than riddles? Should he have not known the limited mental capacity of his creation (mankind), and thus instead of talking in riddles, and setting his words up for misinterpretations, rather just said in clear cut words, what it is that he demands?

Btw, excuse my poor english, its my second language.
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Re: Why it is impossible to debate with a muslim!
Reply #3 - March 15, 2009, 02:59 PM

Welcome Balthier.

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Re: Why it is impossible to debate with a muslim!
Reply #4 - March 15, 2009, 03:05 PM

Thanks. I'm relieved to find a site like this, because I can relate to a lot of the things experienced by the users of this forum.
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Re: Why it is impossible to debate with a muslim!
Reply #5 - March 15, 2009, 03:12 PM

Pakistani apostate Ibn Warraq has a pretty interesting article on, "How to debate with Muslims," where he covers some of the phrases aliadiere speaks of namely-you can't read Arabic & out of context. It definitely helps you sharpen your debating techniques!

http://www.islam-watch.org/IbnWarraq/Debate_Muslims.htm

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Re: Why it is impossible to debate with a muslim!
Reply #6 - March 15, 2009, 03:13 PM
Personally, I know they are struggling when they:
- Ask me if I like death
- Ask me if I want to burn in hellfire
- Tell me that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world
(all the above is true for Christianity as well)
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Re: Why it is impossible to debate with a muslim!
Reply #7 - March 15, 2009, 03:20 PM

Quote from: Rashna on March 15, 2009, 03:12 PM
Pakistani apostate Ibn Warraq has a pretty interesting article on, "How to debate with Muslims," where he covers some of the phrases aliadiere speaks of namely-you can't read Arabic & out of context. It definitely helps you shrapen your debating techniques!

http://www.islam-watch.org/IbnWarraq/Debate_Muslims.htm

sometimes I anticipate the "you can't read Arabic" and "you are taking it out of context" by mentioning how most of their holy text is so difficult and cryptic that you can apply reverse exegesis to it and simply see anything you want in it

so if they bring up those two arguments, they shoot themselves in the foot by admitting you can potentially read any shit in it

Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
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Re: Why it is impossible to debate with a muslim!
Reply #8 - March 15, 2009, 04:08 PM

Also it's funny when people (such as some on this forum) CAN read Arabic and speak it fluently, and find fault with the Qur'an, suddenly their knowledge of Arabic is lacking.

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Re: Why it is impossible to debate with a muslim!
Reply #9 - March 18, 2009, 09:44 AM

Quote from: Pazuzu on March 15, 2009, 04:08 PM
Also it's funny when people (such as some on this forum) CAN read Arabic and speak it fluently, and find fault with the Qur'an, suddenly their knowledge of Arabic is lacking.

It is just in 6200+ verses, I only know of One verse that sounds more enlightened and humane in Arabic, then it does in English.

As for the pretty poetry. Here is the argument I usually use:

"Why do you talk to me about poetry? do I look like a fag? you want me to read poetry? you like poetry yourself? you never even cared about poetry before, now you want to talk about poetry? You don't look like a guy who reads poetry. I prefer the meaning of the text, you can leave the poetry to people who do poetry."

I know it is a bit hypocritical of me since, i do write poetry. But I still do not like to read it.

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Re: Why it is impossible to debate with a muslim!
Reply #10 - March 18, 2009, 11:40 AM

Quote from: aliadiere on March 15, 2009, 01:50 PM
Does anybody else find it impossible to debate with a muslim? They won't accept reason and just say one of a number of phrases that can be used in hundreds of situations!

You can't have read the Qur'an and understood it properly, because if you understood it, you would believe.

You need to be able to read the Qur'an in the original Arabic to get the right meaning

You are taking this verse out of context

There is no point arguing with you because you seem to have made your mind up

You have been misinformed/your knowledge of Islam is lacking

I think you should learn something about Islam

The reason you think/talk like that is because Shaytaan has taken you down the wrong path (which is impossible to prove!)

And so on......

Any thoughts?

Those people have placed them self in their little 'safe zone' where no logic or intelligence can penetrate them. It's pointless. All you can do is show you have a good knowledge, but even that will not be enough usually.

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Re: Why it is impossible to debate with a muslim!
Reply #11 - March 18, 2009, 01:25 PM

Quote from: aliadiere on March 15, 2009, 01:50 PM
Does anybody else find it impossible to debate with a muslim? They won't accept reason and just say one of a number of phrases that can be used in hundreds of situations!

You can't have read the Qur'an and understood it properly, because if you understood it, you would believe.

You need to be able to read the Qur'an in the original Arabic to get the right meaning

You are taking this verse out of context

There is no point arguing with you because you seem to have made your mind up

You have been misinformed/your knowledge of Islam is lacking

I think you should learn something about Islam

The reason you think/talk like that is because Shaytaan has taken you down the wrong path (which is impossible to prove!)

And so on......

Any thoughts?

I have heard just about all of them. And to add to the fire, they also like to throw in "You were never a true Muslim. Prove to me first you were."

Just how the fuck am I supposed to do that?

I mean, I'm sure everyone has a video diary of every day of their life, but I'm a student, and money is a bit short on me to buy a camcorder. Cut me some slack.

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Re: Why it is impossible to debate with a muslim!
Reply #12 - March 18, 2009, 01:33 PM

Quote from: Tommy on March 18, 2009, 01:25 PM

I have heard just about all of them. And to add to the fire, they also like to throw in "You were never a true Muslim. Prove to me first you were."

Just how the fuck am I supposed to do that?

A difficult one to prove and is based on how perfect they think the religion is. You could tell them to meet you here amongst all the other ex-muslims. The numbers and the various threads here should give them a reality check, and show them the the religion contains enough flaws for people to want to leave it..

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Re: Why it is impossible to debate with a muslim!
Reply #13 - March 18, 2009, 01:39 PM

Quote from: Tommy on March 18, 2009, 01:25 PM

I have heard just about all of them. And to add to the fire, they also like to throw in "You were never a true Muslim. Prove to me first you were."

Just how the fuck am I supposed to do that?

*sigh*

It's very simple Tommy, provide the skeptic with your photo, full name, phone number, home address and any other relevant vital statistics.

Then they'll believe you.

But then you'll have other problems on your hands.

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Re: Why it is impossible to debate with a muslim!
Reply #14 - March 18, 2009, 03:45 PM

There's just no arguing with dogma.

every muslim will tell you that you havent understood TRUE Islam. apparently its unattainable.

Quod est inferius est sicut quod est superius,
et quod est superius est sicut quod est inferius,
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Re: Why it is impossible to debate with a muslim!
Reply #15 - March 18, 2009, 04:46 PM

Quote from: Tommy on March 18, 2009, 01:25 PM
And to add to the fire, they also like to throw in "You were never a true Muslim. Prove to me first you were."

Just how the fuck am I supposed to do that?

I got that just the other day! And to prove myself he wanted to know which madhdhab I followed, which mosque I prayed at (yeah right, like I'd give THAT information away!), and whether I read surah al-Fatihah along with the Imam when praying behind him! Ridiculous.

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Re: Why it is impossible to debate with a muslim!
Reply #16 - March 18, 2009, 06:16 PM

Quote from: aliadiere on March 15, 2009, 01:50 PM
Does anybody else find it impossible to debate with a muslim? They won't accept reason and just say one of a number of phrases that can be used in hundreds of situations!

You can't have read the Qur'an and understood it properly, because if you understood it, you would believe.

You need to be able to read the Qur'an in the original Arabic to get the right meaning

You are taking this verse out of context

There is no point arguing with you because you seem to have made your mind up

You have been misinformed/your knowledge of Islam is lacking

I think you should learn something about Islam

The reason you think/talk like that is because Shaytaan has taken you down the wrong path (which is impossible to prove!)

And so on......

Any thoughts?

WOW, I have heard every single one of these before, and yes they love to hide in their little safe zone. You can add another one to this list. Muslims tell me this one all the time.

"Go to a sheikh, he will clear all of your doubts"

By them turning around saying to go to a sheikh they have already lost the debate.

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