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Theme Changer

 Topic: Medieval Skeptics of Islam (and some Lounès Matoub) - المتشككون في العصور الوسطى

 (Read 3902 times)
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  • Medieval Skeptics of Islam (and some Lounès Matoub) - المتشككون في العصور الوسطى
     OP - October 27, 2014, 09:29 AM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csEJFYwcnRA

    Quote
    Muhammad al Warraq - 9th Centuray (Iraqi)
    Ibn al-Rawandi - 827-911 (Afghani)
    Muhammad ibn Zakariya al-Razi - 865-925 (Persian)
    Al-Ma'arri - 973-1057 (Syrian)
    Omar Khayyam - 1048-1141 (Persian)

    Track: Allahu Akbar - Lounès Matoub.

    Here is an English translation of the track:

    In the daytime when permanent calmness ( christianity ) came,

    We discharged it incontinent;
    We said to him: we are at best,
    Fed on happiness and on beneficial effects,
    Nothing misses in our prosperity,
    What fades for ever what we forget one day.
    Our looks towards Quebla turn,
    As though of this place
    The wind of respectability had to get up.
    Allah is big! Allah!


    Arabic is the word of God.
    It is the language of knowledge,
    In no way comparable in the others.
    For her, you can throw yourself into the abyss,
    Go, topple over, sink there!
    Mahomet will carry to your assistance.
    Watch out! Do not open again eyes anymore!
    Call lords, sing commendations
    Of those who bewitch you towards torpor.
    Allah is big! Allah!


    Watch out! Do not appear from sleep!
    You here is wandering in the chasms of nature,
    The steam of opium for companions.
    Consider Quebla made drowsy,
    Also consider the chérifienne Quaaba,
    They are your only lamp.
    Bow your forehead and hit it against earth,
    No one comes to fluster your prostration,
    Listen only to your sidi sheikh:
    Allah is big! Allah!

    Matoub (1956-1998) was an atheist Berber Kabyle singer, and prominent advocate of the Berber cause and secularism in Algeria till his death. He is revered as a hero and martyr in Kabylie and the Berber World but reviled by most of the Arab population in Algeria for his atheism and the alleged blasphemy of some songs along with his militant advocacy of Berber rights. He was assassinated by the Algerian muslim regime.


    Wikipedia: Lounès Matoub

    Quote
    Lounès Matoub (in Kabyle: Lwennas Maṭub, in Tifinagh: ⵍⵡⴻⵏⵏⴰⵙ ⵎⴰⵟⵓⴱ, Algerian Arabic: معتوب لوناس) (January 24, 1956 – June 25, 1998) was a famous Berber Kabyle singer, poet, thinker and mondol player who was a prominent advocate of the Berber cause, human rights and secularism in Algeria throughout his life. He was a symbol of resistance and courage.

    He is revered as a hero and martyr in Kabylie and the Berber World but reviled by most of the Arab population in Algeria for his atheism and the alleged blasphemy of some songs (like Allahu Akbar) along with his militant advocacy of Berber rights, so he was unpopular among both warring parties during the Algerian Civil War. His assassination, in circumstances which remain unclear, provoked violent riots in Kabylie. Berber Algerians still accuse the Algerian regime of killing Matoub Lounès, but some of the Algerian regime's figures accused the Islamist terrorists of this crime.


    Quote
    During the riots in October 1988, Matoub was shot five times by a policeman[citation needed] and left for dead. He was hospitalised for two years, requiring 17 operations including the insertion of an artificial sacrum and the contraction of his leg by 5 cm. His 1989 album L'Ironie du sort describes his long convalescence.

    During the civil war, which began in 1992, the Islamist Armed Islamic Group (GIA) added his name to a hitlist of artists and intellectuals. Matoub remained in Algeria. On 25 September 1994, he was abducted. He was held for two weeks in a GIA mountain stronghold and condemned to death. He was released following a large public demonstration in which his supporters threatened "total war" on the Islamists.

    In 1994, he published his autobiography entitled Rebelle (Paris: Stock, 1995).


    Matoub Akbar!!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oq5CAQZzMHI

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  • Medieval Skeptics of Islam (and some Lounès Matoub) - المتشككون في العصور الوسطى للإس
     Reply #1 - October 27, 2014, 09:55 AM

    Medieval Skeptics of Islam

     
    That is a great a thread on Islamic history Nikolaj.,  please Add  more information on this  subject of "Medieval  as well as early Islamic Skeptics".. Many of them lost their lives for being/airing  skepticism about Islamic faith..

    In fact the first Revealed Surah of Quran itself  tells us the  story of   a Skeptic starts with  the stories of Quran Skeptics..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Medieval Skeptics of Islam (and some Loun?s Matoub) - المتشككون في العصور الوسطى للإس
     Reply #2 - October 27, 2014, 11:32 AM

    I am sure I can find this information and much more ruffling through your old posts, oh wise yeezevee grin12 Afro

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  • Medieval Skeptics of Islam (and some Lounès Matoub) - المتشككون في العصور الوسطى للإس
     Reply #3 - October 27, 2014, 11:54 AM

    I am sure I can find this information and much more ruffling through your old posts, oh wise yeezevee grin12 Afro

    So  Nikolaj you like that Village Berber voice of  Lounès Matoub?    That... that Advertising  Voice   sounds  so perfect even if you don't know a word of what he is singing still you like to listen...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBxJRbsc_Ls

    Frankly speaking until I read the heading of this folder., I didn't realize Islam in fact started with some guy who was a Skeptic of alleged revelations of alleged Muhammad.. ( A Pseudo Name for Arabs of that time)/  I am of the opinion that  early Muslim Intellectuals in combination with warlords and rulers/Caliphs  turned that  word.,  an  Adjective "Muhammad" in to a name and erected a Prophet for Islam on the word "Muhammad"

    Quote
    096.014- 019: Does he not know that Allah does see?_: Nay! if he desist not, We would certainly smite his forehead,_: A lying, sinful forehead._: Then let him summon his council,_: We too would summon the braves of the army._: Nay! obey him not, and make obeisance and draw nigh (to Allah).

    So those  above highlighted verses in that surah 96(originally Surah-1) speaks about that 1st Skeptic of Islam..

    Question is...,   Who was that first  Skeptic guy with that sinful forehead??  Apparently the guy had large mole/birth mark(whatever) on his forehead..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Medieval Skeptics of Islam (and some Loun?s Matoub) - المتشككون في العصور الوسطى للإس
     Reply #4 - October 27, 2014, 05:04 PM

    Yeez, have you seen Luxenberg's reading of Surah 96?  I find it very convincing.  Pages 301-325.

    http://www.aramaic-dem.org/English/History/Christoph%20Luxenberg.pdf

    Among other things, he re-reads the very bizarre 'forelock' phrase of the traditional interpretation as actually referring to 'adversary.'  Thus 96:15-16 reads as follows in Luxenberg's account:

    15.   If he does not stop, we will punish the adversary.
    16.   The lying, sinful adversary.

    No forelocks involved, much less 'lying, sinful' forelocks.  It's really unacceptable that the forelock reading was ever accepted so readily.

    The traditional Islamic reading of Surah 96 is really terribly bad, in my view, and it's amazing that it has not been subjected to more serious criticism.  It's not clear to me that Luxenberg is entirely right with his reading, but it's clear to me that the traditional Islamic reading is disastrously defective.
  • Medieval Skeptics of Islam (and some Loun?s Matoub) - المتشككون في العصور الوسطى للإس
     Reply #5 - October 27, 2014, 05:30 PM

    Btw, while reading 'Lost Enlightenment' I came across a fascinating medieval skeptic of Judaism and of revealed religion generally -- one of the most fierce early skeptics, Al Hiwi of Balkh.  Though he mostly criticized the Torah, his criticisms were equally applicable to all 'revealed' religions, and it's remarkable to see such a figure during a time period where you wouldn't think such thought would be tolerated.  But that's Central Asia for you, which was a bastion of religious diversity in a world that had turned its back on religious tolerance.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiwi_al-Balkhi

    The argumentation used by Hiwi reminds me of the arguments used in "My Ordeal With The Qur'an."  But he was writing in the Ninth Century no less!
  • Medieval Skeptics of Islam (and some Lounès Matoub) - المتشككون في العصور الوسطى للإس
     Reply #6 - October 27, 2014, 08:05 PM

    Yeez, have you seen Luxenberg's reading of Surah 96?  I find it very convincing.  Pages 301-325.

    Well.,    Yes I read that  Zaotar., In fact  Christoph   Luxenberg spent lot of pages on that particular surah..   My problem with his book are many.. but questions to you...

    1). Do you consider All Quran,  All hadith  all the way to that 4th Caliph Ali Ibn Abi Talib.,  are just cock-bull stories written by some guy/guys but in reality that  history of Islam we read  never happened?

    2). Did you inquire/ read history of Islam with reference to Iran?  Do you beleive there was a guy "Muhammad" in Islamic history .
    Btw, while reading 'Lost Enlightenment' I came across a fascinating medieval skeptic of Judaism and of revealed religion generally -- one of the most fierce early skeptics, Al Hiwi of Balkh.  Though he mostly criticized the Torah, ............

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiwi_al-Balkhi

    The argumentation used by Hiwi reminds me of the arguments used in "My Ordeal With The Qur'an."  But he was writing in the Ninth Century no less!

    that is interesting   specially because that  Hiwi  the heretic was Jewish and living in Afghanistan of that time..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Medieval Skeptics of Islam (and some Loun?s Matoub)
     Reply #7 - October 28, 2014, 09:51 AM

    Thought this may be an appropriate place to put this. So people are aware of the new Dracula movie that's just come out right?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2aWqecTTuE

    What the historical inaccuracies in “Dracula Untold” tell us about the rise of Islamophobia

    The vilification of Islam has reached such heights that when the Muslim Sultan Mehmet II is cast opposite history’s bloodiest psycho-tyrant, it’s Dracula who emerges as the tragic hero.



    Quote
    This week I saw Dracula Untold in Istanbul, with an Italian Turkologist who shares my enthusiasm for vampire movies. It was past 10pm when the credits rolled, and the audience was disgruntled. Outside, Istiklal Street was still booming. An armored police van drove passed us, weaving through indifferent crowds. “That film was very anti-Muslim,” said my friend. I’m the Muslim one in our relationship, but I was trying to shrug it off, because frankly what else is new?

    I do love a good villain, and take some pride in that black-eyed madness the historical Turk is infamous for. So, far from having an objection to my forefathers being cast in a nefarious light, it actually took some effort to reign back the gleeful cackling every time Dominic Cooper’s Mehmet II came on screen. That said, my issue is one of historical accuracy, and contemporary significance.

    Admittedly, Hollywood is no genius when it comes to accurate representation. If it’s not a larger-than-life action flick where America is saving the world from aliens, chances are they’ll get it all wrong. But why Turks? And why now, when all eyes are on Turkey, and the country teeters unwillingly on the frontline of impending war? In the current climate of global political tension and escalating Islamaphobia, what political statement does Dracula Untold make in pitting our vampire hero against the armies of Mehmet II?

    The film’s generous use of the word “Turk” was interesting. To call an Ottoman a Turk is like calling a Roman an Italian. True, the Ottoman sultans were of Turkic origin. But the empire was much too big, much too ethnically diverse to be called Turkish.

    In the Age of Enlightenment, “Turk”, “Moor” and “Mohammedan” were interchangeable terms which basically meant Muslim. When an Englishman adopted the Islamic faith (and records hint that there was an influx of “apostates” during the Jacobean period) he was said to have “turned Turk”. Europe wasn’t merely compromised by the economic and military might of the civilised Muslim world. It was compromised by the reality of Islam as a fast-spreading faith which bore alarming similarities to the Judeo-Christian revelation. It was appealing. Glamorised even, by wealthy, cultivated Muslim travelers hailing from exotic lands. The wide use of “Turk” then, was an attempt to tribalise the Islamic faith and associate it with foreign, potentially threatening powers, which were the common enemy.

    I’ll fill you in on some more history. Vlad Dracul II of the house of Draculesti sought support from the Ottoman Sultan in his claim to the Wallachian throne. To put him on it, the Ottomans waged war with Dracul’s enemies. In return, Dracul willingly offered them not one, but two of his sons: Vlad Tepes Dracula and Radu cel Frumos – aka Radu the handsome.

    While Vlad Tepes went on to become the progenitor of the vampire myth, his brother would remain loyal to the Sultan, and his childhood friend, Mehmet II. A skilled and celebrated general, Radu proved invaluable in the conquest of Istanbul. And when Vlad Tepes started wreaking carnage across the Balkans, Mehmet II dispatched Radu to quell his brother’s blood-thirst. Vlad’s insurrection was not dissimilar to the terror tactics of the so-called Islamic State. He killed indiscriminately: Men, women and children; Turks and Bulgarians; Muslims and sympathising Christians alike were put to the stake. He boasted of his cruelty to the horror of his foes and allies. And having been raised among Muslims, he had the advantage of disguise. During their guerilla attacks, his men were dressed in Ottoman uniforms. He talked Turkish, walked Turkish and burned villages to the ground.

    The brothers battled long, but Radu was victorious. Vlad Tepes fled to Hungary, where he sought sanctuary with the Corvinus clan. But frankly they’d also had enough of his grizzly antics, so they imprisoned him on charges of treason. True story.

    Fast forward to the 21st century. In Dracula Untold, Mehmet II seals his demands on Vlad with a bloody thumb-print, and the scene’s final shot is of the Sultan’s thumb on an imperial edict, alongside a stamp bearing the name of God in Arabic script. The Sultan’s cruelty then is the will of the Muslim god, who is out to get your children. Today, vilification of Islam has reached such heights, that even when the Sultan is cast opposite history’s bloodiest-psycho-tyrant, it’s Dracula who emerges as the tragic hero.


    Because we didn't know it wasn't a faithful retelling of either the historical Dracula or the Bram Stoker novel. I wonder what he'd think of this.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUwUiGdKTYs

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Medieval Skeptics of Islam (and some Loun?s Matoub) - المتشككون في العصور الوسطى للإس
     Reply #8 - October 28, 2014, 10:28 AM

    For some reason this page won't let me quick edit to fix the link (still don't know why all my hyperlinks turn out like that only to be normal after an edit, never before). Full edit works but it tells me to change the title of the thread because I have too many characters.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Medieval Skeptics of Islam (and some Loun?s Matoub)
     Reply #9 - October 28, 2014, 11:22 AM

    I have deleted the Arabic part of the subject title now. I feel gross and racist.

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  • Medieval Skeptics of Islam (and some Loun?s Matoub)
     Reply #10 - October 28, 2014, 11:24 AM

    Funnily enough I still had to delete it. Anyway, link sorted, feel free to re-add the Arabic. Afro

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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