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Theme Changer

 Topic: Lethal Woo

 (Read 2719 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Lethal Woo
     OP - November 15, 2009, 01:29 PM

    A British company is selling dowsing rods to the obviously very gullible Iraqi Interior Minister, claiming that they can detect explosives.

    Quote
    It's always interesting when people take pseudoscience out of its natural habitat ? north London's Islington ? and off into a place where the stakes are quite high. Like the polio vaccine scare in Nigeria. Or Aids denial in South Africa. Or, in this particular case, detecting bombs in Iraq, where the New York Times and the magician James Randi have uncovered a nonsense of truly epic proportions.

    A British company called ATSC is selling a device which can detect guns, ammunition, bombs, drugs, contraband ivory ? and truffles. The ADE651 uses "electrostatic magnetic ion attraction" and can detect these things from a kilometre away, through walls, under the ground, under water or even from an aeroplane three miles overhead.

    ATSC's device is handheld. You simply take a piece of plastic-coated cardboard for your chosen target, which has been through "the proprietary process of electrostatic matching of the ionic charge and structure of the substance", pop it into a holder connected to a wand and start detecting.

    There are no batteries and no power source: you hold the device to "charge" it with the energy of your body. Then you walk with the wand at right angles to your body.

    If there is a bomb on your left, the wand will drift to the left, and point at it. Like a dowsing rod.

    Similar devices have been tested repeatedly and shown to perform no better than chance. No police force or security service anywhere in the developed world uses them. But, in 2008, the Iraqi interior ministry bought 800 ADE651s for $32m (?19m) and they've ordered a further shipment at $53m. These devices are being used at hundreds of checkpoints in Iraq to look for bombs.
    Last week two people working for the New York Times went through nine Iraqi police checkpoints which were using the device, and none found the rifles and ammunition they were carrying (with licences).

    Major General Jehad al-Jabiri, of the Iraqi interior ministry, said: "Whether it's magic or scientific, what I care about is it detects bombs."

    How would you know? There are no independent tests of the ADE651 that I could find. The simplest explanation is that nobody could really be bothered. The magician James Randi can.

    For many years, in an admirably expensive act of passive aggression, he has offered a $1m cheque to anyone who can provide proof of supernatural phenomena.

    Last year he invited the manufacturers of the ADE651 to come forward to see if the device works better than chance. They have not. I guess if you've trousered $85m, you don't care about The Amazing Randi's puny cheque.

    General Jabiri challenged a New York Times reporter to test the ADE651, placing a grenade and a machine pistol in plain view in his office. Every time a policeman used it, the wand pointed at the explosives. Every time the reporter used the device, it failed to detect anything.

    "You need more training," said the general.


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/nov/14/bad-science-iraq-ben-goldacre

    How do you reckon people like that sleep at night after they hear of Iraqi civilians being blown up at police checkpoints?   finmad

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Lethal Woo
     Reply #1 - November 15, 2009, 02:40 PM

    Unfortunately the gullible will always be taken advantage off, and always applies to those who dont apply logic & reasoning skills to frame their thoughts.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Lethal Woo
     Reply #2 - November 15, 2009, 04:38 PM

    Its a bit more serious than that, don't you think?  A UK company is selling dowsing rods to the Iraqi police and codding them into thinking they can detect explosives. 

    Why are they allowed to do it?   Huh?  How many British soldiers and aid workers have been blown up because the police let a suicide bomber pass cos their woo stick told them to?

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Lethal Woo
     Reply #3 - November 15, 2009, 06:19 PM

    A British company is selling dowsing rods to the obviously very gullible Iraqi Interior Minister, claiming that they can detect explosives.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/nov/14/bad-science-iraq-ben-goldacre

    How do you reckon people like that sleep at night after they hear of Iraqi civilians being blown up at police checkpoints?   finmad


    That is disgusting beyond belief!
  • Re: Lethal Woo
     Reply #4 - November 15, 2009, 08:44 PM

    These clowns should be prosecuted for false advertising, just to start with. I'm sure other charges could be filed as well.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Lethal Woo
     Reply #5 - November 15, 2009, 08:48 PM

    Corporate manslaughter, I was thinking.  If you sell harmless snake oil to the gullible, well........a fool and his money an all that.  If your snake oil kills people, that's a whole other ball game.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Lethal Woo
     Reply #6 - November 15, 2009, 08:52 PM

     Cheesy Hey I love this comment on the article.

    Quote
    The directors of ATSC should be obliged to collect the $85 million they are 'owed' for their ADE651 devices in person. The payment will be in one of let's say a dozen sealed briefcases. The other eleven briefcases should each contain high explosive that is rigged to explode when the case is opened. The directors will of course be allowed to use one of their magic, miracle bomb detection devices when deciding which briefcase to open. I'm sure they will all be happy to demonstrate their confidence in their product...

    Now that  is a damned fine idea. I'd pay twenty bucks to watch a film on that little story.  grin12

    ETA: Oh and if you go to the company's home page it says "Website under repair". I wonder if they failed to detect some explosives. http://www.atscltd.co.uk/

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Lethal Woo
     Reply #7 - November 15, 2009, 09:07 PM

    A British company is selling dowsing rods to the obviously very gullible Iraqi Interior Minister, claiming that they can detect explosives.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/nov/14/bad-science-iraq-ben-goldacre

    How do you reckon people like that sleep at night after they hear of Iraqi civilians being blown up at police checkpoints?   finmad


    Sure the owner of the company sleeps just fine-- he's likely a sociopath. Most con artists lean that way and a con artist who recklessly sells a product that could easily lead to death is almost certainly bereft of normal human feelings empathy and sympathy.

    Cheesy Hey I love this comment on the article.
    Now that  is a damned fine idea. I'd pay twenty bucks to watch a film on that little story.  grin12

    ETA: Oh and if you go to the company's home page it says "Website under repair". I wonder if they failed to detect some explosives. http://www.atscltd.co.uk/


    I absolutely love that idea, except I'd pack roofing nails in with the HE and put them in all 12 briefcases, and let them sweat it out thinking they might have a chance of surviving before they are killed or permanently maimed. Slime like that don't deserve to live.

    At a minimum the UK government should send the owners, management and salespeople of this company away for life. If I'm not mistaken, the UK still has the option of the death penalty for treason, but I think the best option of all would be to extradite them to Iraq and let them stand trial there.

    fuck you
  • Re: Lethal Woo
     Reply #8 - November 15, 2009, 09:13 PM

    Quote
    If I'm not mistaken, the UK still has the option of the death penalty for treason


    That's an interesting idea.  If anyone could establish a link between a police checkpoint allowing a suicide bomber to pass because they depended on their dowsing rod, and the death of a British soldier at the hands of that suicide bomber, that may indeed be treason. 


    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Lethal Woo
     Reply #9 - November 15, 2009, 09:27 PM

    That's an interesting idea.  If anyone could establish a link between a police checkpoint allowing a suicide bomber to pass because they depended on their dowsing rod, and the death of a British soldier at the hands of that suicide bomber, that may indeed be treason. 




    Yeah, it wouldn't qualify here as treason, but that's because our legal definition is very narrow and spelled out in the Constitution, but I'm assuming the UK probably has greater latitude in defining treason.

    I think allowing them to rot in an Iraqi prison for a few months or a few years before they are executed is an even better option, though. I generally favor sending people in Western nations who fuck with underdeveloped nations or people in them to those same nations to be tried and punished.

    Of course, if I had it my way there would be hundreds, if not thousands of US politicians being extradited to Third World nations right now, and thousands more being imprisoned in maximum-security facilities for their criminal attacks on the liberty of Americans and their subversion of our Constitution and revolutionary founding principles (e.g. the architects of the Drug War would all be thrown into the same places they sent so many).

    But I digress...point is that the people who did this are evil, and I would hope that the UK government treats them accordingly. But I ain't countin on it-- guys like this have a tendency to get much less than they deserve. That's why I still like the idea of Hell, not for unbelievers, but for those who didn't get what they had comin to them in this life.

    fuck you
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