Story from England: Islam shows its cultish nature....

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Story from England: Islam shows its cultish nature....
OP - October 31, 2009, 09:56 AM

Whilst, as Q-man written elsewhere, the distinction between a "religion" and a "cult" is somewhat spurious, we can all recognise certain features of what are commonly referred to as "cults". One of these is the separation of cult initiates from their non-member families. This was one of the charges laid against "prophet" Muhammad himself by the pagan Meccans. The following linked story from the UK shows why Islam - more than any other "mainstream religion" - deserves the label of "cult":

Schoolgirl, 14, goes missing after 'converting' to Islam

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Re: Story from England: Islam shows its cultish nature....
Reply #1 - October 31, 2009, 10:00 AM

Awesome. So this has never happened with sects of other religions. Deary me, no.

Oh and there's a wonderful saying I once heard: the only difference between a cult and a religion is the amount of real estate they own.

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Re: Story from England: Islam shows its cultish nature....
Reply #2 - October 31, 2009, 10:21 AM

If you ever really want to try and understand people like Muhammed or Moses or Jesus or Baha'u'llah or Joseph Smith or whoever and their early followers....look no further than David Koresh, Jim Jones, or Charlie Manson...
I'd be willing to bet, their psychological profiles are one in the same.

Characteristics of a Cult Leader
http://www.skeptictank.org/hs/cprofile.htm

The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
-Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

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Re: Story from England: Islam shows its cultish nature....
Reply #3 - October 31, 2009, 10:27 AM

Quote
Awesome. So this has never happened with sects of other religions. Deary me, no.

So how does the fact of cultic Christian sects and subsects (eg Branch Dravidians) "rebutt" my argument in favor of Islam being classified as a "cult"?

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Re: Story from England: Islam shows its cultish nature....
Reply #4 - October 31, 2009, 10:30 AM

A teenager in foster care goes awol, and the Daily Mail tells you she bought a prayer mat, and you decide that Islam is a cult, there is no such thing as a moderate muslim, yada, yada, yada.

You have shown us how logical you are, DH. But then again, we knew that anyway.

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Re: Story from England: Islam shows its cultish nature....
Reply #5 - October 31, 2009, 10:32 AM

Quote from: DH on October 31, 2009, 10:27 AM
So how does the fact of cultic Christian sects and subsects (eg Branch Dravidians) "rebutt" my argument in favor of Islam being classified as a "cult"?

If it happened with all converts you would have a point.

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Re: Story from England: Islam shows its cultish nature....
Reply #6 - October 31, 2009, 10:35 AM

Quote from: Homer on October 31, 2009, 10:21 AM
If you ever really want to try and understand people like Muhammed or Moses or Jesus or Baha'u'llah or Joseph Smith or whoever and their early followers....look no further than David Koresh, Jim Jones, or Charlie Manson... I'd be willing to bet, their psychological profiles are one in the same.

I would not argue with any of that - except to highlight differences between the respective cult leaders' willingness to resort to violence. However, a distinction is made a distinction between "bona fide religions" and "cults" and Islam, like the "Church" of scientology, continues to display features that place it firmly in the latter category.

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Re: Story from England: Islam shows its cultish nature....
Reply #7 - October 31, 2009, 10:42 AM

Nope. Islam is in the former category, despite what the Daily Mail tells you.

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Re: Story from England: Islam shows its cultish nature....
Reply #8 - October 31, 2009, 10:55 AM

Quote
Nope. Islam is in the former category, despite what the Daily Mail tells you.

On what grounds exactly?

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Re: Story from England: Islam shows its cultish nature....
Reply #9 - October 31, 2009, 11:01 AM

Quote from: osmanthus on October 31, 2009, 10:32 AM
If it happened with all converts you would have a point.

It happens enough to place Islam per se firmly in the category of "cult". HERE is another story. We hear time and time again of non-Muslim women being inveigled into marriage by a Muslim man and having the children they have had together taken away from them, never to see them again. You only have to look at the situation in avowedly "Islamic States" - starting with "prophet Muhammad's" in Yathrib - where Islam is able to exert full cultish Jonestown-style control over its members.

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Re: Story from England: Islam shows its cultish nature....
Reply #10 - October 31, 2009, 11:35 AM

Quote from: DH on October 31, 2009, 10:55 AM
On what grounds exactly?

Don't try and shift the burden of proof. Islam is generally recognised as a religion, if you want to down grade it to a cult it is up to you to provide evidence.

And no, stories from the Daily Mail about stupid women are not evidence. Give us a rigorous definition of the difference between a religion and a cult, and then establish how Islam falls into the category of cult. And give sources. Kthanxbai.

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Re: Story from England: Islam shows its cultish nature....
Reply #11 - October 31, 2009, 11:39 AM

They're not even stupid women. They're kids running away from home.

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Re: Story from England: Islam shows its cultish nature....
Reply #12 - October 31, 2009, 11:54 AM

DH , stop wasting your time here, go get some help.

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Re: Story from England: Islam shows its cultish nature....
Reply #13 - October 31, 2009, 07:06 PM

Quote from: DH on October 31, 2009, 11:01 AM
It happens enough to place Islam per se firmly in the category of "cult". HERE is another story.

You have clearly just taken the Molly Campbell/Misbah Rana story totally out of context to support your weak point, and if you look at the whole story and not just this one carefully chosen, racist article from the Daily Mail, you would see that this was all about a girl choosing between her parents.

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Re: Story from England: Islam shows its cultish nature....
Reply #14 - November 18, 2009, 06:19 PM

I read the story in the Times, is the times racist, how is a story about muslims racist anyway.
Regardless of whether or not islam is a cult or religion you should only use the term racist when it is to do with race. Islam is not a race but it's followers often use the term to dismiss criticism.

I think that islam is mainly a political ideology which just happens to include a god in it's ideology, one that does not seem to have any free will in it, like most other fascist ideologies, i.e. communism and nazis.
Arthur.
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Re: Story from England: Islam shows its cultish nature....
Reply #15 - November 18, 2009, 06:36 PM

Quote from: DH on October 31, 2009, 09:56 AM
Whilst, as Q-man written elsewhere, the distinction between a "religion" and a "cult" is somewhat spurious, we can all recognise certain features of what are commonly referred to as "cults". One of these is the separation of cult initiates from their non-member families. This was one of the charges laid against "prophet" Muhammad himself by the pagan Meccans. The following linked story from the UK shows why Islam - more than any other "mainstream religion" - deserves the label of "cult":

Schoolgirl, 14, goes missing after 'converting' to Islam

Your article says:

Quote
Sarah had gone missing in the past and was discovered on each occasion in Dudley, he added.

Which cult was responsible for her previous disappearances?
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