mental acrobatics about obedience

1« Previous thread | Next thread »
- Alecto
- Goddess of Unceasing Anger
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
mental acrobatics about obedience
OP - December 17, 2009, 08:34 AM

Im sorry for bringing this shit up for the millionth time but it just pisses me off. Mental acrobatics at its finest regarding 4 34

Quote
As for ""if they obey you (ata-nakum) seek not against them means (of annoyance)"". This is a conditional sentence related to this particular situation. In this situation (verse 4:34) the woman is definitely wrong and not following the straight path (the path of Allah), but the husband is following the straight path and is trying to guide his wife, so if she obeys him here, then she is following the straight path, i.e. obeying Allah. Hence this part of the verse again is very specific to this described situation of nushuz and cannot be used as a general statement to say that women are ordered by Allah in the Quran to be obedient to their husbands [3]. On the other hand, if the husband was not following the straight path of Allah, then the wife should not obey him, but instead she should advice him.

http://www.unm.edu/~reemaz/

"We were married by a Reform rabbi in Long Island. A very Reform rabbi. A Nazi."-- Woody Allen
- Cool Canadian
- Ex-Muslim
- Don't mess with raccoon Mario
- offline
Re: mental acrobatics about obedience
Reply #1 - December 17, 2009, 04:46 PM

As Abdur Raheem green always said "love and obedience come hand in hand". But seriously, it clearly sounds so mysogonistic, women must obey the men?

"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
~Sir Richard Francis Burton

"I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
~RIBS
- Cheetah
- Global Moderator
- offline
Re: mental acrobatics about obedience
Reply #2 - December 17, 2009, 04:51 PM

There is no way to take the sting out of that verse, even if you reduce it to being tapped with a feather or re-interpret the word "beat" to mean "leave". It still doesn't disguise the fact that the verse is misogynistic and ignorant.

"Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny." - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
- Iblis
- Ex-Muslim
- betta rekognize
- offline
Re: mental acrobatics about obedience
Reply #3 - December 17, 2009, 04:58 PM

Quote from: Cheetah on December 17, 2009, 04:51 PM
There is no way to take the sting out of that verse, even if you reduce it to being tapped with a feather or re-interpret the word "beat" to mean "leave". It still doesn't disguise the fact that the verse is misogynistic and ignorant.

Well if it does mean "tap" then you're making God look like a fucking fool anyways. If I were Muslim I'd rather just stick to the good ol beating meaning. Better a misogynistic god than one that tells you to do really meaningless and stupid shit. After all, wtf does 'tapping' someone with a feather really actually accomplish? Hassan explained this so well in his vid.

Fucking gullible Muslims.

Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.
- Manat
- Great googa mooga!
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: mental acrobatics about obedience
Reply #4 - December 17, 2009, 08:46 PM

Even if it's just tapping, the intent is to humiliate the woman. If she's just a good person, which I think many are, her husband tapping on her is intended to humiliate her, since she can't tap him back. (that sounds as stupid as it is). I think that the average guy who's inclined to this worldview - the man being a degree above her - is going to interpret nushuz a lot differently than your average desperate western Muslim. Nushuz is when she goes out without his permission or doesn't have hot dinner on the table or something like that. Interestingly, when you read about emotional abuse within marriages, some of the hallmarks are men yelling at their wives, refusing to share affection with them, lecturing them, etc. -- the steps ordered by this here verse.

If she's really as bad as western Muslims say this verse is intended for, the tapping won't mean a fucking thing, and that's what Muslims miss. They say "this is only for women who apostatize, or who cheat on their husband." If she's at that point, a motherfucking tap means shit all. Do they really think being tapped with a feather or toothpick is going to bring a woman back into Islam? How is it that a married person can be stoned to death for adultery, but if a woman does it and her husband handles it himself, he's just supposed to tap her?

[this space for rent]
- Alecto
- Goddess of Unceasing Anger
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: mental acrobatics about obedience
Reply #5 - December 17, 2009, 10:40 PM

Quote
Even if it's just tapping, the intent is to humiliate the woman. If she's just a good person, which I think many are, her husband tapping on her is intended to humiliate her, since she can't tap him back. (that sounds as stupid as it is). I think that the average guy who's inclined to this worldview - the man being a degree above her - is going to interpret nushuz a lot differently than your average desperate western Muslim. Nushuz is when she goes out without his permission or doesn't have hot dinner on the table or something like that. Interestingly, when you read about emotional abuse within marriages, some of the hallmarks are men yelling at their wives, refusing to share affection with them, lecturing them, etc. -- the steps ordered by this here verse.

If she's really as bad as western Muslims say this verse is intended for, the tapping won't mean a fucking thing, and that's what Muslims miss. They say "this is only for women who apostatize, or who cheat on their husband." If she's at that point, a motherfucking tap means shit all. Do they really think being tapped with a feather or toothpick is going to bring a woman back into Islam? How is it that a married person can be stoned to death for adultery, but if a woman does it and her husband handles it himself, he's just supposed to tap her?

Some would say there's no injunction against her "tapping" him back so it's OK to do. If the Quran doesnt say you cant do something, then go ahead and do it . Of course they always ~~neglect to mention~~ fail to realize that the verse allows a man to take action against his wife and punish her, whilst 4 128 only says there is no sin on them if they reconcile or something. And the tafisr says that this means she concedes some of her rights. If this is true then women get screwed for both their own and their husbands' nushuz. Fuckin equality, eh?

"We were married by a Reform rabbi in Long Island. A very Reform rabbi. A Nazi."-- Woody Allen
1« Previous thread | Next thread »