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 Topic: How long will it be before Muslim nations become secular & tolerant?

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  • Re: How long will it be before Muslim nations become secular & tolerant?
     Reply #30 - December 17, 2009, 06:02 AM
    * Does Bangladesh have a strong sense of what we do is right, what is done to us is wrong? (relative morality).
    * Is revenge considered unethical?
    * Is revenge encouraged (You have to get your righ)?
    * Very High incidence of people hiring friends & family in public offices?
    * Is honor based on what you do only? or based on what people say of you?
    * Does your sin reflect on your entire family?

    Those questions are just from the top of my head as to what would make a society tribal-like, I will post more when I wake up.
    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: How long will it be before Muslim nations become secular & tolerant?
     Reply #31 - December 17, 2009, 06:03 AM
    Acid attacks + Honor killing is the same if done for the same reason and/or is left unpunished.
    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: How long will it be before Muslim nations become secular & tolerant?
     Reply #32 - December 17, 2009, 06:08 AM
    Quote from: Baal on December 17, 2009, 06:02 AM
    * Does Bangladesh have a strong sense of what we do is right, what is done to us is wrong? (relative morality).
    * Is revenge considered unethical?
    * Is revenge encouraged (You have to get your righ)?
    * Very High incidence of people hiring friends & family in public offices?
    * Is honor based on what you do only? or based on what people say of you?
    * Does your sin reflect on your entire family?


    1) Not really
    2) & 3) Revenge and Vendetta is not part of our culture
    4) This is simply not tribal. Nepotism and corruption is part of plenty of third world country. Tribal or not.
    5) Not sure. I don't think this is tribal either.
    6) Not anywhere near the level of arab countries. Once again, this is not a tribal issue.

    Tribalism involves *tribes*, not ideas or culture.

    Quote
    Acid attacks + Honor killing is the same if done for the same reason and/or is left unpunished.


    They are not done for the same reason at all. Honor killings are a very middle eastern custom that is interlinked with Islam. It's related to 'cleansing' family dishonor.

    Acid attacks are done 90% of the time by rejected male suitors against the female that rejected him. It happens among Hindus, in SE asia, in Africa even. It has it roots in misogony, but not Islam.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_throwing

    Mostly S and SE asia it seems.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: How long will it be before Muslim nations become secular & tolerant?
     Reply #33 - December 17, 2009, 06:18 AM
    Guys, no need for us to fight with each other, we're a small community and should all be friends with each other Smiley. OK, so perhaps Kawai used a bad term, lets just leave it at that  Wink  beatdeadhorse
  • Re: How long will it be before Muslim nations become secular & tolerant?
     Reply #34 - December 17, 2009, 06:44 AM
    Okay Kaiwai and Baal, you guys want to make the argument that Bangladesh is the most tribal country of em all by only giving one source for your argument? Then by all means please do continue with your ignorance.

    I'm a bit surprised that this topic is being discussed again. Last time Kaiwai made the same accusation, and I've stated that the acid attacks happen in poorer villages of Bangladesh, but by no means is it of the mainstream culture. Both you and Baal, find me few sources that states that honor killing in Bangladesh can be found to be part of the mainstream culture. If you're gonna post bullshit, and I see that your sources lead to these crimes happening in poorer, more Islamic villages of Bangladesh (something I've not denied) then you have proved my point that your arguments are empty, and unresearched.

     There is a difference between an acid attack, and an honor killing. The latter is where someone is killed (like the Arab's favorite--stoning). Acid attacks and any other misogynistic attacks are simply that--misogynistic attacks. No country in the world is completely void of this issue. Talk to a cop here in the states. I'm sure he/she can tell you of domestic attacks of the like happening in the U.S.


    And Kaiwai, I gave my previous response to you because I've answered your question in a previous thread in which I've laid out that Bangladesh isn't an Islamic country in the sense that it has a Sharia state, and approves of any honor killings. Seems you ignored that one and are more willful to carry on with your empty rant.

    Quote from: Baal on December 17, 2009, 06:03 AM
    Acid attacks + Honor killing is the same if done for the same reason and/or is left unpunished.


    First of all, no it's not the same. And second of all, in Bangladesh, its not left unpunished if a suspect is found guilty. Nice try.

    Quote from: Baal on December 17, 2009, 06:02 AM
    * Does Bangladesh have a strong sense of what we do is right, what is done to us is wrong? (relative morality).
    * Is revenge considered unethical?
    * Is revenge encouraged (You have to get your righ)?
    * Very High incidence of people hiring friends & family in public offices?


    Those questions are just from the top of my head as to what would make a society tribal-like, I will post more when I wake up.



    Let me sum up all your questions into one Baal: Does Bangladesh have crazy conservative nutjobs who run much of the govt. and make it a corrupt govt.? The answer is yes. What's your point? I can find the same within U.S govt.


    Quote from: Baal on December 17, 2009, 06:02 AM
    * Is honor based on what you do only? or based on what people say of you?


    Depends on the person.

    Quote from: Baal on December 17, 2009, 06:02 AM
    * Does your sin reflect on your entire family?


    Depends on the family.
    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Re: How long will it be before Muslim nations become secular & tolerant?
     Reply #35 - December 17, 2009, 06:55 AM
    Quote from: kaiwai on December 17, 2009, 04:28 AM
    Then again, according to you all those 2,200 people just tripped over and fell face first into a bowl of acid.


    2,200 women over the course of how many years Kaiwai? Per year, how many women were attacked?
    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Re: How long will it be before Muslim nations become secular & tolerant?
     Reply #36 - December 17, 2009, 07:00 AM
    Quote from: Rashna on December 16, 2009, 07:51 PM
    Malaysia was only 50% Muslim at the time of its independence from the British, the rest were Indians & Chinese, who were economically better off, especially the Chinese, it was the Chinese hard work & intellect which kept the place running.

    .....

    Malaysia now has very discriminatory rules which however only apply for Muslim women, Marina Mahathir has described the situation as apartheid, Muslims leaving Islam are subject to great torture, as was the case of one Revathi Masoosai, who converted from Islam to Hinduism, Malay authorities seized her baby girl & put her in a "re education" camp to re convert her to Islam, likewise a Malay Muslim's conversion to Christianity was also not recognized by the courts.

    Malaysia has now instituted Shariah laws like caning for drunkenness

    ......

    If Malaysia becomes more Muslim & Malay birthrates & laws will cause it to become more Muslim, & if it has increasingly Islamic laws like caning & polygamy,it won't have a very rosy future.



    Rashna is largely right about Malaysia. The problems there are big.
    There are 3 parallel worlds, one for Malays, one for Chinese, and one for Indians. The two do not meet. It is the most balkanized society I've ever seen.....and I've been to the Balkans. The amazing part is...the Chinese are doing great, because the Malays use their political power to oppress themselves.
    It basically goes like this:
    Malaysia: Ok, Chinese, you go make money and stuff to support our economy. We wont bother you about anything or even talk to you, just go make money and stuff.
    Chinese: Ok, thanks sucker, we're off to give our kids proper educations, invest in our future, and then off to the KTV to have fun and chill with a few beers.
    Malaysia: Ok, now you Malays...go sit in the corner and read the quran, or else.

    The Malays themselves have pretty much zero culture or anything going for them, so they just steal stuff from Indonesia and say it's theirs when they want to feel special. Meanwhile the Chinese just think the Malays are stupid rejects who cant tie their shoes, and barely bother talking to them (most Chinese there take it as an insult if you speak to them in BhsMalay). Meanwhile, the Malays are so busy oppressing themselves, they dont even notice.


    Ya, there is a lot more too it, but I could go on all night........I'm such a Malaysia hater mysmilie_977
    The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
    superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
    is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
    -Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

     "Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags."  -Ibl
  • Re: How long will it be before Muslim nations become secular & tolerant?
     Reply #37 - December 17, 2009, 07:02 AM
    Quote from: Baal on December 17, 2009, 05:42 AM
    Tommy, can you list what are the actual punishment for so-called honor killers? acid attackers?


    Life imprisonment is one of them. Although, it's very easy to avoid if you have the right amount of money to bribe the judge. A common problem in BD.
    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Re: How long will it be before Muslim nations become secular & tolerant?
     Reply #38 - December 17, 2009, 07:08 AM
    Quote from: Homer on December 17, 2009, 07:00 AM
    Rashna is largely right about Malaysia. The problems there are big.
    There are 3 parallel worlds, one for Malays, one for Chinese, and one for Indians. The two do not meet. It is the most balkanized society I've ever seen.....and I've been to the Balkans. The amazing part is...the Chinese are doing great, because the Malays use their political power to oppress themselves.
    It basically goes like this:
    Malaysia: Ok, Chinese, you go make money and stuff to support our economy. We wont bother you about anything or even talk to you, just go make money and stuff.
    Chinese: Ok, thanks sucker, we're off to give our kids proper educations, invest in our future, and then off to the KTV to have fun and chill with a few beers.
    Malaysia: Ok, now you Malays...go sit in the corner and read the quran, or else.

    The Malays themselves have pretty much zero culture or anything going for them, so they just steal stuff from Indonesia and say it's theirs when they want to feel special. Meanwhile the Chinese just think the Malays are stupid rejects who cant tie their shoes, and barely bother talking to them (most Chinese there take it as an insult if you speak to them in BhsMalay). Meanwhile, the Malays are so busy oppressing themselves, they dont even notice.


    Ya, there is a lot more too it, but I could go on all night........I'm such a Malaysia hater mysmilie_977


    Yeah Malaysia is pretty much a 3 way ethnic ghetto. The Malays are pretty much the same in Singapore (where I lived for a year). You sound like you lived in Malaysia?

    Most of the economic and educational progress in both Malaysia and Indonesia is a product of it's Chinese ethnic minority really.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: How long will it be before Muslim nations become secular & tolerant?
     Reply #39 - December 17, 2009, 07:14 AM
    Quote from: Rashna on December 16, 2009, 07:51 PM


    Also, like in many Muslim nations cut off from the Islamic heartland via geographical distance, people were only nominally Muslim earlier, but followed a syncretic religion. This contributed to more tolerance & gender equality.




    Again, totally correct. Indonesia is a really good example.

    You'll notice that the people who still play with the kejawen and agama Jawa stuff (abangan) are called 'traditionalists', while the ones who are all orthodox sunni are called 'modernists'

    Islam is really a 'new' thing there. People were doing their thing forever, and then slowly the Arabian big papa started getting more and more influence. Basically jamming it down their throats. Youre muslim, youre muslim, youre muslims...well this is what muslims do, so you better do it this way because you are muslims, take it from us, we're experts on being muslims, so copy us, you want to be good muslims right? Well, you better do this...and of course everyone goes....well, ok, we're muslims, so we have to do that.
    Hell, nobody on Java wore jilbab like 20 years ago.



    The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
    superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
    is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
    -Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

     "Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags."  -Ibl
  • Re: How long will it be before Muslim nations become secular & tolerant?
     Reply #40 - December 17, 2009, 07:18 AM
    I've been to KL a dozen times or so.

    Indonesia is a million times better (yet the Malays treat Indonesians like dirt)....Part of the reason I'm a Malaysia hater. They have an inferiority complex because they cant compete with the chinese, so they take it out on Indonesians and Indians, by treating them like crap, to make up for being looked down on by the Chinese.

    Indonesia has its problems, but at least it is not as ghettoised as Malaysia. This goes for the Chinese too. In Indonesia they speak the Indonesian language, they have Indonesianized names, they are part of the culture.


    EDIT:
    One thing I will disagree with you on is "Most of the economic and educational progress in both Malaysia and Indonesia is a product of it's Chinese ethnic minority really."

    In Malaysia, yes, very much so....But in Indonesia I see it different. For one, it is a lot more integrated (but not enough...by a long freakin shot), and while the Chinese have contributed, so so much recognition is deserved for the Javanese, Balinese (which are just hindu Javanese...but I digress), Menadonese, Bataks, Sundanese, and so forth.
    The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
    superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
    is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
    -Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

     "Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags."  -Ibl
  • Re: How long will it be before Muslim nations become secular & tolerant?
     Reply #41 - December 17, 2009, 07:23 AM
    Saudi Arabia is the main stumbling block in the quest for a pan-Islamic renaissance.

    That country needs a bloody revolution which exclusively targets both the Saudi royal family and the Wahhabi religious establishment in that country whom the royals pay to stop troubling them, and are happy to export their brand around the world to keep them at bay.

    When the current Saudi political and religious establishment collapses, it will cause other religious establishments around many countries to collapse soon in the likes of Pakistan, Bangladesh, Iran (despite being ruled by a Shia theocracy), Indonesia, Malaysia etc.

    That Saudi Oil has become a curse for the Muslim World. It really is.
    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: How long will it be before Muslim nations become secular & tolerant?
     Reply #42 - December 17, 2009, 07:40 AM
    I cant help but think that the best thing to happen to the Jews was for their temple to be destroyed and not permitted to be rebuilt, the religious structure destroyed, and the pharisees ended.
    Huh....If it wasnt for Rome, I wonder how many Einsteins they would have produced.

    Its just a thought, but Imagine what that did to the religion, and its affects on creating the 'modern western secular judaism'.

    Imagine what would happen to the Islamic world, if say, NATO just marched into Mecca, burned the Kaaba down, kicked the stone into the ocean, and sprinkled radioactive dust all over the place so nobody could go back there.


    I know this is a bit 'over the top' (even for me), but I have at times toyed with the thought. Imagine if say...Jerusalem was just totally destroyed forever. Like a massive project and it was just torn down, destroyed carthage style, and the whole area dumped into the sea.....what would happen to the 'big 3' then? Not out of malice, but just to prove a point.
    Where is the messia going to come back now? huh?
    The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
    superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
    is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
    -Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

     "Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags."  -Ibl
  • Re: How long will it be before Muslim nations become secular & tolerant?
     Reply #43 - December 17, 2009, 07:45 AM
    The destruction of the Kaaba will cause the Muslim World to explode into a brutal rage that will go berserk and kill plenty of more Muslims and non-Muslims in anger.

    I would avoid that situation.
    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: How long will it be before Muslim nations become secular & tolerant?
     Reply #44 - December 17, 2009, 07:48 AM
    Quote from: Homer on December 17, 2009, 07:40 AM
    I cant help but think that the best thing to happen to the Jews was for their temple to be destroyed and not permitted to be rebuilt, the religious structure destroyed, and the pharisees ended.
    Huh....If it wasnt for Rome, I wonder how many Einsteins they would have produced.

    Its just a thought, but Imagine what that did to the religion, and its affects on creating the 'modern western secular judaism'.

    Imagine what would happen to the Islamic world, if say, NATO just marched into Mecca, burned the Kaaba down, kicked the stone into the ocean, and sprinkled radioactive dust all over the place so nobody could go back there.


    I know this is a bit 'over the top' (even for me), but I have at times toyed with the thought. Imagine if say...Jerusalem was just totally destroyed forever. Like a massive project and it was just torn down, destroyed carthage style, and the whole area dumped into the sea.....what would happen to the 'big 3' then? Not out of malice, but just to prove a point.
    Where is the messia going to come back now? huh?



    Eh, you may be right about the Jews, but much different situation with the Muslims-- (1) a lot more of them (2) much different historical context, (3) they are a proselytizing religion whereas Judaism is not, (4) unlike what happened to the Jews in ancient Judea, the Muslims would not be left landless/stateless if Mecca ceased to exist. I think the only thing that would result from what you wondered about is even more pissed-off Muslims.

    Quote from: atheist.pk on December 17, 2009, 07:45 AM
    The destruction of the Kaaba will cause the Muslim World to explode into a brutal rage that will go berserk and kill plenty of more Muslims and non-Muslims in anger.

    I would avoid that situation.


    Uh, yeah.  Cheesy Understatement is awesome.
    fuck you
  • Re: How long will it be before Muslim nations become secular & tolerant?
     Reply #45 - December 17, 2009, 07:49 AM
    I know, I'm just contemplating the effects of that kind of stuff.
    I mean, what would the real effects be on theology. Without mecca, for instance, 'end times' stories falls apart...without the Kaaba, praying to it seems silly. An entire pillar of islam becomes null without the hajj.
    Without Jerusalem...man, that really just nulls those 'end of days' stories.

    Not to mention how demoralizing it would be...sure they'd be pissed....but how could they reconcile things. What effect would seeing that happen have on peoples faith?


    EDIT: Guys, I'm not building a dirty bomb in my basement, just a thought exercise  Tongue
    The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
    superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
    is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
    -Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

     "Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags."  -Ibl
  • Re: How long will it be before Muslim nations become secular & tolerant?
     Reply #46 - December 17, 2009, 08:24 AM
    Quote from: atheist.pk on December 17, 2009, 07:45 AM
    The destruction of the Kaaba will cause the Muslim World to explode into a brutal rage that will go berserk and kill plenty of more Muslims and non-Muslims in anger.

    I would avoid that situation.


    I wonder if that's really what would happen or, with the kaaba gone and no lightning bolt from the sky smiting anyone, they would be in a long state of shock when they finally realize their religion was all a lie and would start to come together and rebuild themselves
  • Re: How long will it be before Muslim nations become secular & tolerant?
     Reply #47 - December 17, 2009, 08:57 AM
    Quote from: kaiwai on December 17, 2009, 01:32 AM
    But you can't stabilise it until you address the issue of religion - religion is a key component to the war; a religion that never went through a modernisation which Christianity and Judaism had to go through. But all of this comes back to Saudi Arabia - the asshole of the Islamic world; the only saving grace for Islam would be a return for Turkey to take a stronger leadership role in the Islamic world to supplant Saudi Arabia and the Saudi doctrine.


    you cannot address the issue of religion yet, when it is fundamental to the region and in a population that is so devout.  You need religious nuts who have influence, can establish some form of stability and despise the Taliban.  There is no one else to work with.
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: How long will it be before Muslim nations become secular & tolerant?
     Reply #48 - December 17, 2009, 10:12 AM
    Quote from: liberated on December 17, 2009, 08:24 AM
    I wonder if that's really what would happen or, with the kaaba gone and no lightning bolt from the sky smiting anyone, they would be in a long state of shock when they finally realize their religion was all a lie and would start to come together and rebuild themselves


    yeah.. after all the hundreds of lives have been lost and the hunger for carnage has been satiated.. then.. its back to rebuilding the kaa?ba

    since the kaaba has been rebuilt and renovated in the past and now during the present..

    or wait, sorry, it?s a miracle.. the kaaba has never been renovated, never had to be rebuilt, it?s the house of god damn it, nothing can make it crack or crumble

    i mean lets be honest people got killed over cartoons, imagine this destruction.. so please leave holy shrines alone, no matter the religion

    besides history and tradition shows there was a flood that nearly destroyed it (and uthman i think it was, had to get Christians to fix that problem) the kaaba was under attack by terrorists, i mean where was the lighting bolt then? AND people fucking die by hundreds and thousands in stampedes, life is not spared
  • Re: How long will it be before Muslim nations become secular & tolerant?
     Reply #49 - December 17, 2009, 10:25 AM
    But, imagine that the Kabba is completely destroyed, gone, not even a stone left where it was. What will they rebuild then? I think Kabba has a special place in the religion, i.e 'the house of god', if its completely destroyed i imagine that people might wake up & open their eyes.......
  • Re: How long will it be before Muslim nations become secular & tolerant?
     Reply #50 - December 17, 2009, 10:57 AM
    Quote from: liberated on December 17, 2009, 10:25 AM
    But, imagine that the Kabba is completely destroyed, gone, not even a stone left where it was. What will they rebuild then? I think Kabba has a special place in the religion, i.e 'the house of god', if its completely destroyed i imagine that people might wake up & open their eyes.......


    I doubt that would make any difference. They would just build another one. It's the place/spot which holds significance.
  • Re: How long will it be before Muslim nations become secular & tolerant?
     Reply #51 - December 17, 2009, 11:07 AM
    Quote
    . It's the place/spot which holds significance

    OK, what about jerusalem though? If they dropped a huge bomb on jerusalem, so only a big hole was left in the entire place where jerusalem is, what do you think would happen then?
  • Re: How long will it be before Muslim nations become secular & tolerant?
     Reply #52 - December 17, 2009, 04:25 PM
    Quote from: atheist.pk on December 17, 2009, 07:23 AM
    That Saudi Oil has become a curse for the Muslim World. It really is.


    Its an interesting thought experiment to try and imagine how different the Islamic world would be if the Arabs did not have oil. Billions, if not trillions of dollars in wealth have been transferred to Saudi Arabia - and they have dispursed it globally through spreading and supporting their creed. The world, and the world of Islam, would be quite different to how it is now.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: How long will it be before Muslim nations become secular & tolerant?
     Reply #53 - December 17, 2009, 04:31 PM
    Quote from: billy on December 17, 2009, 04:25 PM
    Its an interesting thought experiment to try and imagine how different the Islamic world would be if the Arabs did not have oil. Billions, if not trillions of dollars in wealth have been transferred to Saudi Arabia - and they have dispursed it globally through spreading and supporting their creed. The world, and the world of Islam, would be quite different to how it is now.


    All you need to do is simply look at what was going on in the Muslim around the time of independence (30-50s). If you look at all the prominent Muslim movements they are all secular. A vast majority of the founders of Muslim countries were very secular - Jinnah, Ataturk, Nasser, Shah Pahlavi, Sheikh Mujib etc. The most prominent groups were socialist and nationalist, not religious.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: How long will it be before Muslim nations become secular & tolerant?
     Reply #54 - December 17, 2009, 04:34 PM
    It would make a difference in Britain, for example. Oil money funds so many Islamic institutes, dawah, mosques - all of these things have influenced the tenor and tone of British Islam and thereby British society in general (and not in a healthy way, in my opinion)

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: How long will it be before Muslim nations become secular & tolerant?
     Reply #55 - December 18, 2009, 07:56 AM
    Quote from: BlackDog on December 17, 2009, 10:12 AM
    yeah.. after all the hundreds of lives have been lost and the hunger for carnage has been satiated.. then.. its back to rebuilding the kaa?ba

    since the kaaba has been rebuilt and renovated in the past and now during the present..

    or wait, sorry, it?s a miracle.. the kaaba has never been renovated, never had to be rebuilt, it?s the house of god damn it, nothing can make it crack or crumble





    Uhm...ya, I said if it could NOT be rebuilt for some reason (I dont know a dirty nuke, the city sinks into the ground, who knows)...not just the kaaba, the whole city. It would make some kind of difference, because these cities (Mecca and Jerusalem) are tied very strongly to these religions in a way where their disappearance would effect the theology in many ways

    Quote
    i mean lets be honest people got killed over cartoons, imagine this destruction.. so please leave holy shrines alone, no matter the religion


    Dude, I'm not assembling a commando unit, its just a what if question.
    The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
    superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
    is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
    -Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

     "Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags."  -Ibl
  • Re: How long will it be before Muslim nations become secular & tolerant?
     Reply #56 - December 18, 2009, 08:19 AM
    *phew*

    haha I know I know the thought just worried me for a second there, i honestly dont know what would happen, in the aftermath of the aftermath so to speak, the site it self is not holy, its the actual shrine, so if thats gods house then i guess the thought would be allah could not protect his own house, then how can he protect us? or something along those lines

    btw people dont actually believe allah lives there right? but then, why is it called the house of allah? its metaphorical, riiight?
  • Re: How long will it be before Muslim nations become secular & tolerant?
     Reply #57 - December 18, 2009, 08:22 AM
    A big problems I see is:

    1) cant pray facing the kaaba (never actually could, since the earth is not flat....but I digress)
    2) The end times story falls apart in a lot of places, esp for Shia
    3) Cant do Hajj
    The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
    superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
    is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
    -Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

     "Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags."  -Ibl
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