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Theme Changer

 Topic: Hi!!

 (Read 10797 times)
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  • Re: Hi!!
     Reply #60 - December 25, 2009, 05:40 AM

    Nim is right. It wasn't an Islamic revolution. It was a spontaneous uprising against the rule of the shah by the broad spectrum of the Left, students, civil society. That repulsive old man Khomeini sat watching like a toad on the side of a pond waiting to jump into the water, and when they did, they just killed everyone, murdered, tortured, terrified the Leftists, the secularists, whose morality of non violence didn't stand a chance against the divinely ordained murderers and psychopaths who 'cleansed' Iran of those who had actually instigated the popular uprising.

    ...

    I love Iran. They know Islam and Islamic state power better than anyone, having lived under it for 30 years. And all those years of Islamic Arab imperialism have not extinguished the deep awareness and consciousness of the Persian peoples continuity with their pre-Islamic civilisation and culture. No matter how hard they try, they just cannot oppress or destroy and extinguish their ancestral memories and consciousness.

    They could be the great hope against the insanity of this theology and atavistic nihilism that Islam and Islamic governance have become in the 21st Century.


    Brilliant analysis. And yes I agree, any reformation or enlightenment that comes to the Islam, will come from, *IS* coming from Iran. Great and brave people, and such beautiful language, arts, culture. I too love Persia.


    Of course it doesn't add up. As an Iranian, Reza Aslan should be ashamed of what he's doing. He's a sophist and an apologist for Islam. He's exactly the type of Muslim that made me the leave Islam - an intellectually dishonest 'liberal' muslim whose trying to sugar coat Islam for a western audience and make guilt-ridden westernised Muslims feel good. At a time when Islamic fundamentalism is wreaking violence and intellectual rot throughout the world, he should be confronting Islam instead of trying to play pretend.


    Reza Aslan seems to like to fall back on sugar-coated theology when it suits him and discard it when it becomes too tedious to carry/justify/prove. I find him to be a bit ambiguous and inconsistent.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Hi!!
     Reply #61 - December 25, 2009, 01:14 PM

    Quote
    but looking at one religion with rose-tinted glasses and looking at another religion with shit-tinted glasses is simply hypocrisy and intellectual inconsistency.


    A very honest and objective thing to say. They all had their rising sun and when they were in power they took full advantage of it. Looking at all religion in a balanced way is how it should be done.
  • Re: Hi!!
     Reply #62 - December 25, 2009, 10:55 PM

    I think this whole Islamist bullshit began and will end with Iran. Iranians are at the forefront of experiencing the true evil of Islamism. When the Islamic revolution took power it sent a sort of shockwave throughout the sunni world and was critical in the rise of Islamism as we know it. I think the current Iranian regime is really the Islamist equivalent of the Berlin wall. When these tyrants fall and the Muslim world sees young Iranians burning their hijabs in public - it will be a great blow to the morale of modern Islam.


    I was thinking, we Iranians, arabs, afghans, pakistanis etc... all live in a very small region but we can't wait to kill each other!!!
    But look at us on this site!!! We're all at peace!
    I hate religion (except Zoroastrianism lol  grin12)

    Welcome Nima   far away hug I am Iraqi and was born during the war. Needless to say, throughout my childhood I was brainwashed by Saddam's propaganda to believe that Iranians are evil, anti-Arab..etc. Thankfully now I know how lovely and enlightened they are and I really look forward to getting acquainted with many Iranians.

    I like Reza. I've seen him on CNN, The Daily Show, and Real Time with Bill Maher. I know he's trying to start this liberal Muslim movement and I applaud him for that but it just doesn't add up. How can you be pro-gay rights and Muslim at the same time?
    I watched Persepolis and it shows how communists were persecuted immediately after the revolution. Great movie BTW.
    The post is engaging and informative. Thank you very much for sharing. I wish I knew my country's history that well and in such detail. Smiley
    You have to remember that Arab society is not solely shaped by Islam. The masochistic, backward and tribal culture plays an important role. That's why further you get from Najd and Hijaz (Saudi) the less Backward the country is.


    I was born in the Iran-IRaq war as well (last year of the war though).
    The story of my birth is kind of funny though. My parents were having dinner one night when my dad hears the whistle of missile and thinks it's coming at them so he pushes my 8 month pregnant mother under the table (we lived in Shiraz which is not that far from Iraq). The next day I was born prematurely. The hospital were I was born was short of doctors and nurses (they were on the front lines) and the electricity kept coming and going. I was put in an incubator b/c I couldn't breath and I was deaf (b/c of being born prematurely) so every time the electricity went out a nurse had to give me mouth to mouth  bunny lol

    And you're right about the tribal thing.
    It's the same story all over the region. Afghanistan and parts of Pakistan are still tribal and see how back warded some parts of their countries are (well Afghanistan is completely back warded lol). The baluchistan region of IRan is the same and they're the most underdeveloped and back warded province of Iran (although that's not the only reason). 

    Of course it doesn't add up. As an Iranian, Reza Aslan should be ashamed of what he's doing. He's a sophist and an apologist for Islam. He's exactly the type of Muslim that made me the leave Islam - an intellectually dishonest 'liberal' muslim whose trying to sugar coat Islam for a western audience and make guilt-ridden westernised Muslims feel good. At a time when Islamic fundamentalism is wreaking violence and intellectual rot throughout the world, he should be confronting Islam instead of trying to play pretend.


    yeah I hate aslan as well

    Brilliant analysis. And yes I agree, any reformation or enlightenment that comes to the Islam, will come from, *IS* coming from Iran. Great and brave people, and such beautiful language, arts, culture. I too love Persia.


    Reza Aslan seems to like to fall back on sugar-coated theology when it suits him and discard it when it becomes too tedious to carry/justify/prove. I find him to be a bit ambiguous and inconsistent.


    thanks

    hopefully one day we can ditch Islam and the entire region can go back to its former glory!
  • Re: Hi!!
     Reply #63 - December 25, 2009, 11:02 PM

     
    It's pure hypocrisy. Islam is shit, don't get me wrong, but Islam wasn't born out of a vacuum, all its elements are from the previous faiths. The horrid genius of Islam is that it took all the worst elements of Christianity, Judaism, Zoroastrianism and arab paganism and created the ultimately evil religion.

    But given the fact the Zoroastrianism, when in power in ancient persia, had been a very repressive religion I think there is lots of nasty shit about it that we simply don't know. Zoroastrianism had one of the first most organized and contolling clergies in human history - long before the Catholic church or the Ulema. It was particularly repressive because it had direct control of all religious affairs of the ancient Persian state, the Shahs would not interfere because there power rested with the Zoroastrian clergy. Reading the Cambridge History of Iran, which I have the full volumes of, Zoroastrian priests instigated lots of persecutions of buddhists, christians and manicheans throughout its history.

    I'm sure there are lots of good things about Zoroastrianism too, but looking at one religion with rose-tinted glasses and looking at another religion with shit-tinted glasses is simply hypocrisy and intellectual inconsistency.


    Absolutely agree
    I was telling this to my dad the other day!!!
    Who knows, maybe if zoroastrinism had survived it would have been the same as Islam!

    However we need to be pragmatic. Like it or not middle easterners are spiritual people!
    replacing one religion w/ another is much more doable IMO
  • Re: Hi!!
     Reply #64 - December 26, 2009, 01:57 AM

    It's pure hypocrisy. Islam is shit, don't get me wrong, but Islam wasn't born out of a vacuum, all its elements are from the previous faiths. The horrid genius of Islam is that it took all the worst elements of Christianity, Judaism, Zoroastrianism and arab paganism and created the ultimately evil religion.

    Just one point worth noting: have you considered some of the other religions apart from the obvious middle eastern ones? For example, Aztec temple dedication ceremonies do not exactly rank as paragons of enlightenment. When you are thinking of throwing around terms like "ultimate evil" it pays to be careful.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Hi!!
     Reply #65 - December 26, 2009, 02:00 AM

    But given the fact the Zoroastrianism, when in power in ancient persia, had been a very repressive religion I think there is lots of nasty shit about it that we simply don't know. Zoroastrianism had one of the first most organized and contolling clergies in human history - long before the Catholic church or the Ulema. It was particularly repressive because it had direct control of all religious affairs of the ancient Persian state, the Shahs would not interfere because there power rested with the Zoroastrian clergy. Reading the Cambridge History of Iran, which I have the full volumes of, Zoroastrian priests instigated lots of persecutions of buddhists, christians and manicheans throughout its history.

    I'm sure there are lots of good things about Zoroastrianism too, but looking at one religion with rose-tinted glasses and looking at another religion with shit-tinted glasses is simply hypocrisy and intellectual inconsistency.

     Cheesy

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hi!!
     Reply #66 - December 26, 2009, 02:10 AM

    Just one point worth noting: have you considered some of the other religions apart from the obvious middle eastern ones? For example, Aztec temple dedication ceremonies do not exactly rank as paragons of enlightenment. When you are thinking of throwing around terms like "ultimate evil" it pays to be careful.



    Rhetorical flourish, my bad.

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

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