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 Topic: Kill women and children in Islam?

 (Read 5235 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Kill women and children in Islam?
     OP - January 01, 2010, 12:51 PM
    Salam fellow primates,

    I was on this dutch forum, where a girl watched the movie" the ten commandments" and she mentioned a scene where mozes came back from the mountain with his tablets and when he saw them worshipping the calf, they fought against eachother and many were killed, even women and children.
    Her question was wether that really happened and one guy on this forum said, that it is a lie because ALlah would never permit the killings of women and children.

    Now I'm wondering if in Islam such thing ever happened, where women and children were killed during a raid or battle??
    "Hanifs (Muslims) are stumbling, Christians all astray
    Jews wildered, Magians far on error's way.
    We mortals are composed of two great schools:
    Enlightened knaves or else religious fools....."

    Muslim freethinkers society:  http://www.facebook.com/editapps.php?ref=mb#/group.php?gid=2251053
  • Re: Kill women and children in Islam?
     Reply #1 - January 01, 2010, 02:57 PM
    We need not search battles where Muslims massacred women and children. The Quran gives very clear stories of whole communities that were indiscriminately wiped out. Allah wiped out the people of Nuh/Noah in a flood, Ad and Thamud where severe weather and earthquakes were brought upon them, and the case of the Thamud - for simply going to a She-camel that was forbidden by Allah.

    If women and children were massacred, Muslims claim it was warfare, or collateral damage. Where entire nations were wiped out, the blame lays firmly with Allah.
  • Re: Kill women and children in Islam?
     Reply #2 - January 01, 2010, 03:01 PM
    Man, the Old Testament God really was a cruel tyrant.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Kill women and children in Islam?
     Reply #3 - January 01, 2010, 03:03 PM
    Quote from: abuk on January 01, 2010, 02:57 PM
    If women and children were massacred, Muslims claim it was warfare, or collateral damage.


    Thats what I was always told whenever I tried to confront Muslims about the massacre of the Banu Qurayza.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Kill women and children in Islam?
     Reply #4 - January 01, 2010, 03:07 PM
    Quote from: billy on January 01, 2010, 03:03 PM
    Thats what I was always told whenever I tried to confront Muslims about the massacre of the Banu Qurayza.




    That's why I point to stories in the Quran. If man-made disasters can be explained away, how do they explain away disasters brought upon by the Almighty and All-Compassionate God?
  • Re: Kill women and children in Islam?
     Reply #5 - January 01, 2010, 04:56 PM
    Quote from: billy on January 01, 2010, 03:03 PM
    Thats what I was always told whenever I tried to confront Muslims about the massacre of the Banu Qurayza.




    Ye but only the men were executed in that - women and children were enslaved not killed.
    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: Kill women and children in Islam?
     Reply #6 - January 01, 2010, 05:04 PM
    Quote
    Ye but only the men were executed in that - women and children were enslaved not killed.


    Phew! That's alright then, very humane after all. I understand many of the women were 'invited' to submit to the conquering men who had just beheaded their husbands too - nice one Mo.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Kill women and children in Islam?
     Reply #7 - January 01, 2010, 05:09 PM
    That's why I asked it, whether women and children were also killed or atleast mentioned in the quran that it ever happened.
    I just forgot about nooh, Ad and Thamud, women and children were also massacred too.
    "Hanifs (Muslims) are stumbling, Christians all astray
    Jews wildered, Magians far on error's way.
    We mortals are composed of two great schools:
    Enlightened knaves or else religious fools....."

    Muslim freethinkers society:  http://www.facebook.com/editapps.php?ref=mb#/group.php?gid=2251053
  • Re: Kill women and children in Islam?
     Reply #8 - January 01, 2010, 05:15 PM
    Quote from: billy on January 01, 2010, 05:04 PM
    Phew! That's alright then, very humane after all. I understand many of the women were 'invited' to submit to the conquering men who had just beheaded their husbands too - nice one Mo.

    Didn't say that. Threads about killing women and children. That incident does not show that. There are verses though in the Qur'an as perviously mentioned about Allah wiping out the people of Lot and so on,
    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: Kill women and children in Islam?
     Reply #9 - January 01, 2010, 05:20 PM
    There are instances where Muhammad killed women poets according to certain hadiths (don't know which ones or how authentic they are) and I imagine some women were killed in raids but not sure if they were intentional. There are hadiths attesting that the prophet ordered his men never to kill women children old pepole and so on but then there also hadiths about him executing women poets not sure about raids. There is a hadith database wich u can find them though.
    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: Kill women and children in Islam?
     Reply #10 - January 01, 2010, 05:58 PM
    Quote from: Heyjustlooking on January 01, 2010, 05:15 PM
    Didn't say that. Threads about killing women and children. That incident does not show that. There are verses though in the Qur'an as perviously mentioned about Allah wiping out the people of Lot and so on,


    Yeah you're right. I was just being pedantic. At least they offered the women and children the choice of sex slave, Islam or death.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Kill women and children in Islam?
     Reply #11 - January 01, 2010, 07:52 PM
    There is this hadith

    Quote
    In fact, the ahadith literature contains statements which allow Muslims to murder older persons, women and children. Certain narrations claim that Muhammad permitted his soldiers to engage in night raids that would have exposed innocent women and children to physical harm:

    Narrated As-Sab bin Jaththama:
    The Prophet passed by me at a place called Al-Abwa or Waddan, and was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans)." I also heard the Prophet saying, "The institution of Hima is invalid except for Allah and His Apostle." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 256)


    http://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Menj/asma_afak2.htm
    Like a compass needle that points north, a man?s accusing finger always finds a woman. Always.

    Khaled Hosseini - A thousand splendid suns.
  • Re: Kill women and children in Islam?
     Reply #12 - January 01, 2010, 11:39 PM
    Quote from: billy on January 01, 2010, 05:58 PM
    Yeah you're right. I was just being pedantic. At least they offered the women and children the choice of sex slave, Islam or death.




    U know there are better ways of speaking then just through sarcasm and some hadiths to back up your assertions wouldn't go amiss either like this.

    Quote from: Paloma on January 01, 2010, 07:52 PM
    There is this hadith

    http://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Menj/asma_afak2.htm



    Obviously the Prophet did not see much wrong with killing the pagan women and children as long as it wasn't intentional. Not the worst I have seen but still made me feel uncomfortable as I thought being a prophet he would prioritise the lives of women and children over some night raid.
    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: Kill women and children in Islam?
     Reply #13 - January 02, 2010, 01:59 AM
    Quote
    U know there are better ways of speaking then just through sarcasm and some hadiths to back up your assertions wouldn't go amiss either like this.


    A thousand apologies, a thousand apologies. I had thought to make light hearted of insaan al-kamil not being guilty of murdering innocent women and children, only of beheading male captives and then sexually assaulting their wives afterwards. And there I was thinking he was a really bad guy. A thousand apologies again.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Kill women and children in Islam?
     Reply #14 - January 02, 2010, 05:04 AM
    Quote from: billy on January 02, 2010, 01:59 AM
    A thousand apologies, a thousand apologies. I had thought to make light hearted of insaan al-kamil not being guilty of murdering innocent women and children, only of beheading male captives and then sexually assaulting their wives afterwards. And there I was thinking he was a really bad guy. A thousand apologies again.




    it's ok just don't do it again little man.
    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: Kill women and children in Islam?
     Reply #15 - January 02, 2010, 07:36 AM
    Mohammed ordered a poetess over 100yrs old murdered. Another mother of Five "No Two goats will buck horns over her", and the 10 people he ordered murdered once he peacefully entered Kaaba, at least Two that i remember were women, they were dancers to a poet who made fun of Mo.
    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: Kill women and children in Islam?
     Reply #16 - January 02, 2010, 07:56 AM
    I don't recall any hadiths where Muslims killed children. Isn't that prohibited?
    "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
    ~Sir Richard Francis Burton

    "I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
    ~RIBS
  • Re: Kill women and children in Islam?
     Reply #17 - January 02, 2010, 01:54 PM
    Quote from: Heyjustlooking on January 02, 2010, 05:04 AM
    it's ok just don't do it again little man.


    Will I feel the wrath of Allah if I do?

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Kill women and children in Islam?
     Reply #18 - January 02, 2010, 01:57 PM
    Quote from: Baal on January 02, 2010, 07:36 AM
    Mohammed ordered a poetess over 100yrs old murdered. Another mother of Five "No Two goats will buck horns over her", and the 10 people he ordered murdered once he peacefully entered Kaaba, at least Two that i remember were women, they were dancers to a poet who made fun of Mo.


    This was just another thing that led me to feel disgust for Mo. Another aspect of his life that Muslims accept amongst themselves but don't want non Muslims to know about and if they do discuss, they scream blue murder.

    A poet in his lifetime, a cartoonist in 2010. At the end of the day, the fanatics have the perfect model for attacking those who criticise Mo - remember, his truth is eternal.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Kill women and children in Islam?
     Reply #19 - January 02, 2010, 01:59 PM
    Quote from: Cool Canadian on January 02, 2010, 07:56 AM
    I don't recall any hadiths where Muslims killed children. Isn't that prohibited?

    Paloma already answered this:

    Quote
    In fact, the ahadith literature contains statements which allow Muslims to murder older persons, women and children. Certain narrations claim that Muhammad permitted his soldiers to engage in night raids that would have exposed innocent women and children to physical harm:

    Narrated As-Sab bin Jaththama:
    The Prophet passed by me at a place called Al-Abwa or Waddan, and was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans)." I also heard the Prophet saying, "The institution of Hima is invalid except for Allah and His Apostle." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 256)


    Also, in the Banu Quraizai massacre any males who had hit puberty were killed, and hitting puberty does not make you an adult.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Kill women and children in Islam?
     Reply #20 - January 02, 2010, 02:09 PM

    Its like a horror story ^^^
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Kill women and children in Islam?
     Reply #21 - January 02, 2010, 02:15 PM
    I think this is quite possibly one of the worst and most horrific hadith stories I have seen:

    Quote
    Narrated Ibn Aun: I wrote a letter to Nafi and Nafi wrote in reply to my letter that the Prophet had suddenly attacked Bani Mustaliq without warning while they were heedless and their cattle were being watered at the places of water. Their fighting men were killed and their women and children were taken as captives; the Prophet got Juwairiya on that day. Nafi said that Ibn 'Umar had told him the above narration and that Ibn 'Umar was in that army. [Sahih Bukhari: Book 46, Hadith 717]
    Sahih Muslim
    Book 019, Number 4292:
    Ibn 'Aun reported: I wrote to Nafi' inquiring from him whether it was necessary to extend (to the disbelievers) an invitation to accept (Islam) before meeting them in fight. He wrote (in reply) to me that it was necessary in the early days of Islam. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) made a raid upon Banu Mustaliq while they were unaware and their cattle were having a drink at the water. He killed those who fought and imprisoned others. On that very day, he captured Juwairiya bint al-Harith. Nafi' said that this tradition was related to him by Abdullah b. Umar who (himself) was among the raiding troops.

    Book 019, Number 4293:
    This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Ibn 'Aun and the name of Juwairiya bint al-Harith was mentioned beyond any doubt.

    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Kill women and children in Islam?
     Reply #22 - January 02, 2010, 05:45 PM
    Quote from: billy on January 02, 2010, 01:54 PM
    Will I feel the wrath of Allah if I do?




    I'm don't believe in God. No one said the Banu Qurayzah massacre wasn't inhumane or immoral. I'll appease you Billy it was very tragic, inhumane, abbhorent, sick, vile...you can fill in the rest. I obviously know all this. It was one of the actions I detest the most about Muhammad and made me question Islam.
    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
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