@ zebedee
And why don't we own an atom in our bodies? Because we didn't create/make/earn it. And similarly, your god didn't create/make/earn his own power, so has no more rightful ownership of it, than we have of the atoms that comprise our bodies.
lol... ok, I won't even try to respond to the bolded part, how about this: no one gave anything to God, while we have been given everything by God? Until you identify the entity who gave God His existence, power, etc, you have no argument, and in case such an enitity exists, then that's my God.
Allah only has what has been given to him by a fluke of metaphysics, but we at least have what we have earned through our own effort. When this god of yours wants something all he'd have to do is wish it into being. Things aren't so easy for us.
Oh, so now you're saying God existed thanks to metaphysics? But in this case, at least as far as I'm concerned, you're making God a creation, and thus He cannot be God.
And things aren't easy for us? What I believe is that even the easiest things for us, like every breath we take, are granted by God.
And like I said, yes. Your god has earned nothing. And you may say that your god has a right to think that he's better than the creations in the sense that he has what they do not. Just as someone who has inherited vast wealth and power may believe themselves to be in a better position than a pauper. But the fact still he remains that he has earned and deserved nothing.
And your god's 'infinite majesty'? Your god's 'infinite majesty' is the product of a fluke of metaphysics. He has no more rightful claim to it than anyone else, and if he existed, he would surely know that. You'd think it would be enough to humble him, to make him be thankful for just how lucky he is. Yet, he seems to prefer to gloat in his profound arrogance about what he has not earned an iota of.
And my arrogance or lack thereof has nothing to do with it. I'm simply stating things as they are, and I don't expect anything from your god.
Nor did I specifically say that I am better than your god. You see, I too have been quite lucky. Not the luckiest person, but very, very far from unlucky. I simply have the tiny bit of humility that's necessary to see that. Unlike, it seems, your god.
And of course, denying humans the right to be proud is a complete double standard on your god's part. It's also rather amusing that he condemns those who seek to be praised for what they have not done, as if he somehow earned or wrought into existence what he has. It's a clear double standard, and your pointing the finger at me and calling me arrogant doesn't change a thing.
See above, again, clearly you have a different definition for God.. To me, a created God is an oxymoron. A God who is given anything is NOT God, but only a tyrant, no matter how great he is.
But to clarify, let's look at the example again.
If there's a person who simply inherits vast wealth and power as a birth right, is that person in any way then praise worthy for all that they have? Just because they have it?
No. I thought I already made that clear... in fact, even intelligent people have no right to feel proud, because even their intelligence is given to them by God.
Fair enough if someone worked their way up from the bottom and actually earned vast wealth and influence. Of course that would be a praise-worthy accomplishment.
yeah, you can praise them, but they still have no right to be proud.
But someone who simply is given everything because of what family they were born into, when it could have just as easily been anyone else?
Such a person should not be praised, but then again, like the other person, they have no right to be proud.
Do you think people would regard such a person as being praise-worthy? Someone who has simply been given everything through no effort of their own? And what if that person then demanded the praise of others for all of that? Do you think then that they'd see that person as being worthy of praise?
No.
Sure, he has a lot more than a pauper on the street. But how much more has he actually earned? Nothing. He never earned, nor does he deserve any thing that he has, as it has all simply been given to him. He only possesses what he has by accident, and for no other reason.
True, but even the other person, who *earned* what they got, they earned it ultimately because God willed it, in other words, God gave it to them.
My arrogance has nothing to do with it. That's just the way it is, whether one likes it or not.
All you did is making God a creation, like us, and thus even He has no right to view Himself as higher than anything else, which is true, except, like I said before, a created God is no God.
Topic: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"