Path to Clarity and Hello

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- DigDeep
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Re: Path to Clarity and Hello
Reply #30 - May 06, 2010, 09:15 PM

I am the only one that finds it odd to call yourself Messiah when your an atheist?... i think thats weird.

But welcome anyway.

To your point, Islam is not made of book pages, its made of people that follow these pages. And if these people behave badly, islam is behaving badly.

"We are never deceived, we deceive ourselves." - from Goethes Faust
"Only the wisest and the stupidest men never change." - Confuzios
"there is no religion of peace, only people who are peaceful while being religious."
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Re: Path to Clarity and Hello
Reply #31 - May 06, 2010, 09:21 PM

Quote from: Hassan on May 06, 2010, 08:59 PM
I knew his brother, Prince Assholia.
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Re: Path to Clarity and Hello
Reply #32 - May 06, 2010, 09:25 PM

Quote from: IsLame on May 06, 2010, 08:11 PM
Yep, its nice to meet another one from the book (I mean God Delusion not the Quran )

Tell us about your route to apostacy, how you found us, and if you know any other apostates/doubters in real life..

btw where are you from?

HI Sorry for the late response.

Well I was always cynical about the idea of an all knowing God. I have have never been a beliver of 'accept without questioning' idea. I don't know how I become a non believer. It was never a signle incident, a single belief that made me change my views. My life was like a
game of random chances that 'introduced' me to a myriad of great philosophers and writers. I guess it is the cumilative knowledge of everything I have ever read (including the Quran, The Bible, the book of deuteronomy) and my analysis of what I read and saw that made me a non-believer.

As from where I am from, I was born in Bangladesh, Moved to UK about 5 years ago. I do not know any apostates in real life, but i guess I am lucky in the sense that I study Theoretical Physics so most of us are cynical about god anyway> There are quite a few atheist in my depertment, many also come from other religious background.

My parents are in for a big shock next month at my graduation ceremony when I announce I am an atheist in my speech.
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Re: Path to Clarity and Hello
Reply #33 - May 06, 2010, 09:33 PM

Quote from: messiah on May 06, 2010, 09:25 PM
My parents are in for a big shock next month at my graduation ceremony when I announce I am an atheist in my speech.

I admire your innovative approach to announcing your apostacy from Islam to your parents

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Re: Path to Clarity and Hello
Reply #34 - May 06, 2010, 09:35 PM

Quote from: DigDeep on May 06, 2010, 09:15 PM
I am the only one that finds it odd to call yourself Messiah when your an atheist?... i think thats weird.

But welcome anyway.

To your point, Islam is not made of book pages, its made of people that follow these pages. And if these people behave badly, islam is behaving badly.

Haha...why cannot Atheist have a Messiah? I just like talking about Atheism. I was speaking to some Jehova's Witness's the other day. By the time they left they were more doubtful about the existence of god than I was convinced that there was one. I like to have theological debates with my friends (or with strangers) . They tease me by calling me 'Messiah' no other reasons for the name selection.

I also concur to your understanding for what I was trying to explain. The Quran as a book on its own has no physical significance.
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Re: Path to Clarity and Hello
Reply #35 - May 06, 2010, 09:37 PM

Quote from: IsLame on May 06, 2010, 09:33 PM
I admire your innovative approach to announcing your apostacy from Islam to your parents

Thanks. I think they already know. But there is just this unpleasent silence at times when they ask me if I have been praying. Just have to make things explicit.
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Re: Path to Clarity and Hello
Reply #36 - May 06, 2010, 09:46 PM

Quote from: Hassan on May 06, 2010, 09:14 PM
Don't be dissin, Ima Weener!

He happens to wank as high as the greatest scholars of Islam. (sorry I have a lisp)

your no better than the muslim clerics. i get it you have been wronged in the past by muslims, but two wrongs do not a right make. i guess i feel sorry for u in the sense that even though you have renounced religion, you have not renounced the ideals that had been taught to you.

I went to muslim cleric once and tried talking to him about theology, his reponse and attitude has more in common with yours. Notice I do not have a lisp.
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Re: Path to Clarity and Hello
Reply #37 - May 06, 2010, 10:10 PM

Quote from: messiah on May 06, 2010, 09:46 PM
your no better than the muslim clerics. i get it you have been wronged in the past by muslims, but two wrongs do not a right make. i guess i feel sorry for u in the sense that even though you have renounced religion, you have not renounced the ideals that had been taught to you.

I went to muslim cleric once and tried talking to him about theology, his reponse and attitude has more in common with yours. Notice I do not have a lisp.

lol... I'm not the guy who came on here with an intro post attacking the forum and making blanket genralisations about us.

I am of course just joking around - you however made your attacks in earnest.
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Re: Path to Clarity and Hello
Reply #38 - May 06, 2010, 11:07 PM

Quote from: messiah on May 06, 2010, 09:46 PM
your no better than the muslim clerics. i get it you have been wronged in the past by muslims

Hassan was once car-jacked by Muslims, and he's had it in for them ever since.
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Re: Path to Clarity and Hello
Reply #39 - May 06, 2010, 11:09 PM

Quote from: Zebedee on May 06, 2010, 11:07 PM
Hassan was once car-jacked by Muslims, and he's had it in for them ever since.
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Re: Path to Clarity and Hello
Reply #40 - May 06, 2010, 11:13 PM

Quote from: Zebedee on May 06, 2010, 11:07 PM
Hassan was once car-jacked by Muslims, and he's had it in for them ever since.

It's true! They did terrible things to me... with a... miswak... I don't like to talk about it.
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Re: Path to Clarity and Hello
Reply #41 - May 06, 2010, 11:19 PM

Quote from: Hassan on May 06, 2010, 11:13 PM
It's true! They did terrible things to me... with a... miswak... I don't like to talk about it.

There there, Hassan. You can tell us, we're all friends here. Suppressing the horrors will only make things worse.
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Re: Path to Clarity and Hello
Reply #42 - May 06, 2010, 11:42 PM

Quote from: messiah on May 06, 2010, 08:47 PM
Quran has a lot of violence in it, no doubt but however first of all Quran is not my way of life. Second of all I dont think you clearly understood what I was saying. If the preachers are to use the quran as a source of guidence it can only be done if the whole book is read as a whole, not like an instruction manual but as a story. A story that tells one about the bloodshed and sorrow 'war' in al its form causes.

Again the key idea is how we interpret the book and what we take from it. King Ashoka lead a bloody war. But he learnt from the bloodshed in the war and declared he will not start another war. The quran is just a story, how we use it to guide oursleves is entirely upto its interpretation. The Haddith that a Muslims must follow were not written by mohammed himself but by people who intrepretted his actions and wrote a guide based on Mohammed's way of life. Who is to say that they were impartial in their representation, and they were able to completly able to understand his action.

you will be hard pressed to find a muslim who agrees with this, but interpretation is the key word here.

It would be good if all Muslims today (or at least the majority) behaved as you wish and interpreted the Quran according to modern standards. But I'm afraid that is not the case. And we should not pretend otherwise, or we'll be sticking our heads in the sand while Islam threatens to replace modern civilisation with 7th century beliefs and laws.

Furthermore, you say the Quran is a book like any other piece of literature -- that's interesting to study. Not so I'm afraid. Prophet Muhammad started his cult and used the Quran as 'The Holy Book'. I don't know if he was deluded himself or if he cosciously tried to create a religion, or if he just made things up as he went along, trying to increase his power. Frankly I don't care. It's clearly just another man-made religion. If you study various cults even today, you'll see the same pattern emerging.

"Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

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Re: Path to Clarity and Hello
Reply #43 - May 07, 2010, 12:07 AM

Quote from: Hassan on May 06, 2010, 10:10 PM
lol... I'm not the guy who came on here with an intro post attacking the forum and making blanket genralisations about us.

I am of course just joking around - you however made your attacks in earnest.

If you were joking around i am sorry...i get pretty tensed about debates. Kind of an 'debate' junkie. Jokes are often not my strong point, I am kind of serious all the time. I just think if as a soceity we keep on bickering about each other's differences humanity will never be 'humane'.

I wasn't complaining about the soceity, I guess somehow I managed to stumble upon some of the thread that 'streotyped' people. I just wanted to make sure I was joining the right community. And so far it feels like home.
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Re: Path to Clarity and Hello
Reply #44 - May 07, 2010, 12:20 AM

Quote from: ateapotist on May 06, 2010, 11:42 PM
It would be good if all Muslims today (or at least the majority) behaved as you wish and interpreted the Quran according to modern standards. But I'm afraid that is not the case. And we should not pretend otherwise, or we'll be sticking our heads in the sand while Islam threatens to replace modern civilisation with 7th century beliefs and laws.

Furthermore, you say the Quran is a book like any other piece of literature -- that's interesting to study. Not so I'm afraid. Prophet Muhammad started his cult and used the Quran as 'The Holy Book'. I don't know if he was deluded himself or if he cosciously tried to create a religion, or if he just made things up as he went along, trying to increase his power. Frankly I don't care. It's clearly just another man-made religion. If you study various cults even today, you'll see the same pattern emerging.

You see for me Mohammed was a great politician and general. Mohammed did not write the Quran nor the Haddith. Much of what is recorded is testimonials by other people.

Where as muslims do no interpret the Quran the same way I interpret it, I hope someday they will it may be wishful thinking but this slow evolution of ideologies is noticible in all the major religions.

I think its not Islam itself thats a treat to the modern soceity. I think Islam is being used as a tool, as an agenda by 'mad men' to craete havoc.

People with new ideas have always been oppressed through out history. I feel and have noticed the amount of liberal muslims growing in numbers. Hopefully we will learn to co-exist someday.
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Re: Path to Clarity and Hello
Reply #45 - May 07, 2010, 01:07 AM

Quote from: Hassan on May 06, 2010, 11:13 PM
It's true! They did terrible things to me... with a... miswak... I don't like to talk about it.

I hated miswaks. They're stupid and taste like crap. Some of them even gave me bad breath.

I know someday you'll have a beautiful life, I know you'll be a star
In somebody else's sky, but why, why, why
Can't it be, can't it be mine

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Re: Path to Clarity and Hello
Reply #46 - May 07, 2010, 06:53 AM

Hello Tut.

Same bullshit about being some super intelligent guy, with awful spelling, punctuations, spacing, and the odd text speak thrown in........it's Tut alright.

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
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Re: Path to Clarity and Hello
Reply #47 - May 07, 2010, 10:47 AM

I think its Yoda...

Quote
i get it you have been wronged in the past by muslims, but two wrongs do not a right make.

"Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny." - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
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Re: Path to Clarity and Hello
Reply #48 - May 07, 2010, 04:53 PM

Quote from: Cheetah on May 07, 2010, 10:47 AM
I think its Yoda...
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Re: Path to Clarity and Hello
Reply #49 - May 07, 2010, 05:03 PM

Quote from: messiah on May 07, 2010, 12:20 AM
You see for me Mohammed was a great politician and general. Mohammed did not write the Quran nor the Haddith. Much of what is recorded is testimonials by other people.

Where as muslims do no interpret the Quran the same way I interpret it, I hope someday they will it may be wishful thinking but this slow evolution of ideologies is noticible in all the major religions.

I think its not Islam itself thats a treat to the modern soceity. I think Islam is being used as a tool, as an agenda by 'mad men' to craete havoc.

People with new ideas have always been oppressed through out history. I feel and have noticed the amount of liberal muslims growing in numbers. Hopefully we will learn to co-exist someday.

Oh come on!!
Are you seriously telling me Muhammad did not realise he was starting a religion???
Are you saying the Qur'an was just some philosophical words of advice for the people?

Muhammad saw himself as the last and final prophet of God and there's plenty of evidence in Qur'an and Hadith to suggest this.

"Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

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Re: Path to Clarity and Hello
Reply #50 - May 14, 2010, 05:22 AM

HI HI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV9vdUjuWxc
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