Hello!

Previous page 1 2 3 4« Previous thread | Next thread »
- HighOctane
- Ex-Muslim
- On the flr of Tokyo, or dwn in Lndn twn to go go
- offline
Re: Hello!
Reply #90 - May 27, 2010, 09:26 PM

Quote from: Hassan1 on May 27, 2010, 08:39 PM
The claim made by Eliphaz was that the quran is in Arabic and, therefore, cannot be considered a message for mankind. The obvious problem with this stance is that the message of Islam can be conveyed without understanding the Arabic language. The core fundamentals of the faith - belief in one god, submission to his will etc can be expressed in French, Italian, English, urdu or any combination of the above. The fact that the majority of Muslims in the world today do not speak Arabic, yet still accept its message is at least partial proof of this.

Personally I've been pressured to read the book twice in Arabic as a child and I've not understood a single word, the exception being “Allah”. I, as well as many thousands of children are brought up to read Arabic and not understand it in the UK. So the theory that it can be translated in different languages really doesn't work in practice when many parents pay a fair amount of money (and it is not unknown in the UK for this funding to be obtained from a parent's child benefits allowance) in order to pronounce Arabic, because this is the holy right way. And when they grown up to be adults, I think that you can be assured they are still not understanding a word they pronounce in Arabic (except "Allah"). EDIT: This is of course on the assumption they do not bother reading the translated verion. I don't know any Muslim personally who has.

-->> DONATE TO CEMB

Relativism | Cognitive dissonance | Cognitive biases | Memeplex | Consequentialism
- ateapotist
- Supermassive Black Hole
- Ex-Muslim
- Spaghettifier Extraordinaire
- offline
Re: Hello!
Reply #91 - May 27, 2010, 09:32 PM

Quote from: Hassan1 on May 27, 2010, 08:39 PM
It certainly is very easy to assert that muhammad (saw) merely rebranded judaism and made it acceptable for Arab consumption. A closer inspection of the prophet's life, however, will reveal that numerous individuals accused him of much the same thing! I would argue that those adversaries of the prophet were probably best placed to find his elusive teacher and put to bed, once and for all, the claim that the prophet had learned his message from Jibreel. They were unable to do so.

Hassan1,
This is another fallacy. The Mormons too failed to see through their false prophet/founder Joseph Smith, Jr. Does that make Mormonism correct?

"Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

Baloney Detection Kit
- King Koopa
- Ex-Muslim
- Your Mom's Favorite Lover
- offline
Re: Hello!
Reply #92 - May 27, 2010, 09:35 PM

Awesome posts ateapotist
- Hassan1
- Member
- offline
Re: Hello!
Reply #93 - May 27, 2010, 09:45 PM

Quote from: ateapotist on May 27, 2010, 09:32 PM
Hassan1,
This is another fallacy. The Mormons too failed to see through their false prophet/founder Joseph Smith, Jr. Does that make Mormonism correct?

Ateatpost,

No. The fact that x billion Muslims believe in Islam does not make it correct. I did not claim this in either of my posts on the topic. What i was trying (although, evidently failing) to point was that one does not need to understand Arabic in order to grasp the message of Islam. This was in response to Eliphaz, who cited Islam's arabic basis as a reason for why it cannot be considered a message for humanity. I butressed my argument by stating that numerous non-arabic speaking Muslims believe in Islam, thereby rendering knowledge of Arabic relatively unimportant in understadning the core fundamentals of Islamic belief.

I hope that made sense this time?

...nor shall they encompass aught of His knowledge, except as He willeth...
- ateapotist
- Supermassive Black Hole
- Ex-Muslim
- Spaghettifier Extraordinaire
- offline
Re: Hello!
Reply #94 - May 27, 2010, 10:02 PM

Quote from: Hassan1 on May 22, 2010, 06:59 PM
Religion for all times and all places: Despite being in Arabic, Islam has spread to all corners of the world. It is not neccesary to speak Arabic in order to understand its message, as is evidenced by the growing number of western converts as well as the renewed interest in Islam from non-arabic speaking Muslims.

Hassan1,
I was attacking this part of your post (in bold). Numbers don't matter. And you were defending the general gist of your argument. I accept that language doesn't matter for the message to get through. But HighOctane made a good point that in practice most Muslims don't even understand the Quran as they recite it.

Anyway, what about this new fallacy which I pointed out? Are you going to answer it?

"Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

Baloney Detection Kit
- King Koopa
- Ex-Muslim
- Your Mom's Favorite Lover
- offline
Re: Hello!
Reply #95 - May 27, 2010, 10:05 PM

Hm Quran not understand, prayer not understand, azan not understand. Right.
- Saathiya
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Hello!
Reply #96 - May 27, 2010, 10:15 PM

Quote from: IsLame on May 22, 2010, 09:44 PM
If pondering got you this far, please dont ponder.

You never seize to make me crack up!

"A good man is so hard to find but a hard man is so good to find"
- Hassan1
- Member
- offline
Re: Hello!
Reply #97 - May 27, 2010, 10:17 PM

Ateapost,

The emboldened part of my post was an attempt to demonstrate that a growing number of western-born Muslims (namely converts) are able to understand the core message of Islam - despite the fact that Arabic is a completely alien language. If Islam wasn't amenable to translation across cultures, as per Eliphaz's claim, then this wouldnt really be possible. Not once did I mention that Islam is right because it has a growing number of followers; I stated that it's message is comprhendable by people of all ilk as is evidenced by those converts who hail from a secular background, and still accept the faith.

I'm really not sure how else to explain this? I suggest you re-read my posts for further clarification.

...nor shall they encompass aught of His knowledge, except as He willeth...
- Saif Rahman
- Ex-Muslim
- Je suis Haram
- offline
Re: Hello!
Reply #98 - May 27, 2010, 10:49 PM

Hassan1, take this as a back handed compliment if you may, but you are too bright to be suckered into Islam. That post you made justifying paedophilia is testamount to that, you're turning that good brain of yours into mush.

My Book
My Blog
- Elifaz
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Hello!
Reply #99 - May 30, 2010, 04:18 PM

Quote from: IsLame on May 27, 2010, 10:49 PM
Hassan1, take this as a back handed compliment if you may, but you are too bright to be suckered into Islam. That post you made justifying paedophilia is testamount to that, you're turning that good brain of yours into mush.

I'm finding there are many really intelligent people in Islam, but I believe they are so intelligent they have created intellectual prisons for themselves.

On the matter of secular converts to Islam, they are few and mostly convert due to finding Christianity to have failed them or because they want to get married to someone from that background. My father is one of them, but he did not know many things before he converted. When he discovered that Ayesha was nine and that music was haram, he went into a sort of crisis of faith. Sense then he has decided to reject all the hadiths and never reads the Qur'an. However, he keeps up his daily prayers almost out of routine. I am sad to say it is too late for him.

Getting a shahadah out of someone and parading them in front of a congregation yelling "Allah hu Akbar" does not make them a lifelong Muslim.
- asbie
- Actually just a dude
- Poster of the Month
- Past, present, future...
- offline
Hello!
Reply #100 - July 03, 2016, 11:15 PM

Welcome back Elifaz! Have a rabbit on me!

I saw that you were a big LOST fan. What's your pet theory about the show?

Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
how fuck works without shit??

Let's Play Chess!

harakaat, friend, RIP
Previous page 1 2 3 4« Previous thread | Next thread »