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Theme Changer

 Topic: Hijab

 (Read 33695 times)
  • 12 3 ... 7 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Hijab
     OP - May 18, 2010, 09:00 PM

    Hey everyone

    What's the best way to explain to a practising muslim that hijab isn't mandatory for women (without sounding like a ex-muslim)?

    I know some moderate muslims have alternative views on hijab out there, but I'm looking for some evidence to back it up.

    Thanks
     
    Pariah


    'The greatest glory of living lies not in never falling but in rising everytime you fall'
  • Re: Hijab
     Reply #1 - May 18, 2010, 09:55 PM

    Tell them you are a sufi Muslim who concentrates on inner worship. Cheesy This is only partly serious though.

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: Hijab
     Reply #2 - May 18, 2010, 10:07 PM

    What's the best way to explain to a practising muslim that hijab isn't mandatory for women (without sounding like a ex-muslim)?


    That the only mandatory demands of Islam are the five pillars, and dressing modestly is in accordance with Islamic custom, which does not necessarily require a head covering like hijab, because it doesn't specify this explicitly, therefore it can't be deemed to be mandatory.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Hijab
     Reply #3 - May 18, 2010, 10:12 PM

    "It's meant for protecting women from preditors"

    "It's like back in the 19th Century when women in England had to dress up but times change"

    Or perhaps plainly because it's not fashionable. I don't know if this is why but my sisters sure like to appear presentable to work! Though I consider this more doublethink.
  • Re: Hijab
     Reply #4 - May 18, 2010, 10:29 PM

    Personally I would try to avoid getting into a conversation with Muslims if at all possible.  I can imagine it getting very uncomfortable for a closet apostate.

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: Hijab
     Reply #5 - May 19, 2010, 12:03 AM

    Verse 24:31 is mostly used to justify the hijab at least when we look at the quran as the source.

    Tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms, and not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands or fathers or husbands' fathers, o ... or their slaves, or male attendants who lack vigour.... And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. 24:31

    no where is it ever mentioned that women HAVE to cover their heads. all is mentioned is to use the existing head covering and cover their bosoms. it was told to cover the bosoms because the women were encouraging their men to fight by displaying their bare breasts. the existing head covering was common for women AND men to protect from the sun and the blowing sand. head coverings were thus a cultural thing not a religious duty. over time islam was interpreted and materialized by men. hijab is nothing but a man made thorn for the women.

    Nothing can be more contrary to religion and the clergy than reason and common sense. - Voltaire
  • Re: Hijab
     Reply #6 - May 19, 2010, 01:21 AM

    'Veil' doesn't even necessarily mean hijab. It simply means a piece of cloth that covers something.
  • Re: Hijab
     Reply #7 - May 19, 2010, 10:26 PM

    Thanks for the replies guys.  Smiley

    Unfortunately I have been avoiding discussions with family members but it is becoming increasingly difficult now.  I want to take the hijaab off but need to explain it without giving away my apostacy.

    Canex - thanks for the explanation, I'll see if that works although I somehow thing they'll find som tafsir to justify their view.

    HighOctane - hehe I'd love to use 'the unfashionable and unpresentable' arguement but they'll  think I'm so so shallow just because I want to look nice.  Bloody freaks.

    'The greatest glory of living lies not in never falling but in rising everytime you fall'
  • Re: Hijab
     Reply #8 - May 19, 2010, 10:28 PM

    Personally I would try to avoid getting into a conversation with Muslims if at all possible.  I can imagine it getting very uncomfortable for a closet apostate.


    I know I've done that up until now but the hijab issue is affecting other people in my family too, and I want to come out.  I think it'll help.  Just need to find the best argument to shut them up.

    'The greatest glory of living lies not in never falling but in rising everytime you fall'
  • Re: Hijab
     Reply #9 - May 19, 2010, 10:34 PM

    well the best thing to do would be to do your own research. show your family members how its not mentioned in the quran and how its derived from cultural practices.

    is there any indication that muhammad's wifes wore the hijab?

    Nothing can be more contrary to religion and the clergy than reason and common sense. - Voltaire
  • Re: Hijab
     Reply #10 - May 20, 2010, 12:18 AM

    Can you argue these English Muslim women aren't wearing one? Prob not ... but oh well ...







    Good luck Pariah, it's a lot of courage !
  • Re: Hijab
     Reply #11 - May 20, 2010, 12:21 AM

    Verse 24:31 is mostly used to justify the hijab at least when we look at the quran as the source.

    Tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms, and not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands or fathers or husbands' fathers, o ... or their slaves, or male attendants who lack vigour.... And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. 24:31

    no where is it ever mentioned that women HAVE to cover their heads. all is mentioned is to use the existing head covering and cover their bosoms. it was told to cover the bosoms because the women were encouraging their men to fight by displaying their bare breasts. the existing head covering was common for women AND men to protect from the sun and the blowing sand. head coverings were thus a cultural thing not a religious duty. over time islam was interpreted and materialized by men. hijab is nothing but a man made thorn for the women.


    Nice one. Nice avatar too!
  • Re: Hijab
     Reply #12 - May 20, 2010, 12:24 AM

    .

    "If intelligence is feminine... I would want that mine would, in a resolute movement, come to resemble an impious woman."
  • Re: Hijab
     Reply #13 - May 20, 2010, 12:41 AM

    HO, who's the lady in the second picture?
  • Re: Hijab
     Reply #14 - May 20, 2010, 12:48 AM

    Quote
    HO, who's the lady in the second picture?


    What IA is really saying

     Phwoar

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Hijab
     Reply #15 - May 20, 2010, 12:50 AM


    That's Konnie Huq, TV presenter


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Hijab
     Reply #16 - May 20, 2010, 01:06 AM

    She's yummy.
  • Re: Hijab
     Reply #17 - May 20, 2010, 01:20 AM

    Told you

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Hijab
     Reply #18 - May 20, 2010, 01:31 AM

    Here's a suggestion:

    Make a thread (or i'm assuming there is one) about females. Just in general. All kids of females. Then all of you can go and ogle/post 1 line posts about how hot a certain female is. I'll join you Smiley

     thnkyu

    "If intelligence is feminine... I would want that mine would, in a resolute movement, come to resemble an impious woman."
  • Re: Hijab
     Reply #19 - May 20, 2010, 01:43 AM

    OK but why not make a thread about men also?

    I find you comment kinda sexist. "Eww look at all those males.They can't control their penises....yada yada yada"

     Tongue Just kidding with you  Wink


    But seriously, if this kinda thing annoys you then I have to tell you that there has been more than one post made by one of our female members commenting about how hot some guy is and using the exact same smiley deusvult used in his post above.


  • Re: Hijab
     Reply #20 - May 20, 2010, 01:50 AM

    Quote
    OK but why not make a thread about men also?


    Why not? Go ahead. I like men. I was referring just to this example.


    Quote
    I find you comment kinda sexist. "Eww look at all those males.They can't control their penises....yada yada yada" 


    Nah. Not at all. I don't judge people based on their level of horniness. Not males or Females.  I present to you the horny meter:

    Less horny=good. very horny= bad.

    That is untrue. Tongue Also I find sexual prudes distasteful.

    Quote
    But seriously, if this kinda thing annoys you then I have to tell you that there has been more than one post made by one of our female members commenting about how hot some guy is and using the exact same smiley deusvult used in his post above.


    Right. Well Its not a female or male thing. if a female had done it my comment would have been the same. Thing is , I made a serious response and I actually was seeking some help/insight into the thing but i find once the topic is off-topic, it's just done for and i is unlikely anyone will respond.

    Thankyou for your examples of females having done. Of course, that makes it okay. I bow to you.

    Quote
    Tongue Just kidding with you  Wink



    right.

    "If intelligence is feminine... I would want that mine would, in a resolute movement, come to resemble an impious woman."
  • Re: Hijab
     Reply #21 - May 20, 2010, 01:56 AM

    'o.O

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Hijab
     Reply #22 - May 20, 2010, 02:01 AM

    Why not? Go ahead. I like men. I was referring just to this example.


    Nah. Not at all. I don't judge people based on their level of horniness. Not males or Females.  I present to you the horny meter:

    Less horny=good. very horny= bad.

    That is untrue. Tongue Also I find sexual prudes distasteful.

    Right. Well Its not a female or male thing. if a female had done it my comment would have been the same. Thing is , I made a serious response and I actually was seeking some help/insight into the thing but i find once the topic is off-topic, it's just done for and i is unlikely anyone will respond.

    Thankyou for your examples of females having done. Of course, that makes it okay. I bow to you.

    right.


    Daaaamnnn. She just schooled yer ass, IA. You gonna take that shit?  Insert evil laugh

    fuck you
  • Re: Hijab
     Reply #23 - May 20, 2010, 02:19 AM

    Why not? Go ahead. I like men. I was referring just to this example

    I'm not gonna because I don't like the idea. I don't want a women thread or a men one. If you want to do it, I promise to contribute.


    Nah. Not at all. I don't judge people based on their level of horniness. Not males or Females.  I present to you the horny meter:

    Less horny=good. very horny= bad.

    That is untrue. Tongue Tongue Also I find sexual prudes distasteful.

    Glad we agree on something.  dance


    Right. Well Its not a female or male thing. if a female had done it my comment would have been the same. Thing is , I made a serious response and I actually was seeking some help/insight into the thing but i find once the topic is off-topic, it's just done for and i is unlikely anyone will respond.

    I don't think it really derailed the topic. HO posted a photo of a lady that I found attractive. I asked him who she was, said she was yummy, and moved along.
    Now I usually ask mods to split topics but in this instance, only 5 posts were off-topic. Hardly enough to put people off.


    Thankyou for your examples of females having done. Of course, that makes it okay.

    I don't need an excuse to make it okay. It is okay. Threads are hijacked all the time. Sometimes the discussion derails to a new topic, sometimes a discussion arises and progresses in parallel with the original one until one of them dies out. It's no big deal. If you want to reply to an old post just quote it.



    I bow to you.

    Oh come on. Do we have to do this?


    right.

    I really was joking. I know you didn't say that in your mind. Although I have to say that I did not like the tone of your comment. A misunderstanding on my part perhaps but still that's how it came off.
  • Re: Hijab
     Reply #24 - May 20, 2010, 02:21 AM

    Get a room you two.

    fuck you
  • Re: Hijab
     Reply #25 - May 20, 2010, 02:39 AM

    Get a room you two.


    Why do I get this a lot?  wacko


    I'm not gonna because I don't like the idea. I don't want a women thread or a men one. If you want to do it, I promise to contribute.


    I don't think its a bad idea at all. Ill start one. Tomorrow. that is if, Blackdog doesnt beat me to it (he makes like 1 bajillion successful threads).

    Quote

    I don't think it really derailed the topic. HO posted a photo of a lady that I found attractive. I asked him who she was, said she was yummy, and moved along.
    Now I usually ask mods to split topics but in this instance, only 5 posts were off-topic. Hardly enough to put people off.


    No i agree completely. I suppose its been a mixture of seeing this around lately and the fact that I have a bit of  temper that made me take it out on you guys. I don't see a few posts as a big deal and to be honest, I was being half cheeky/half serious in my first post. In my second post, I might have come across as a long-toothed, long-nailed biting cat because I enjoy arguing...and you baited me all too well Tongue

    Quote

    I don't need an excuse to make it okay. It is okay. Threads are hijacked all the time. Sometimes the discussion derails to a new topic, sometimes a discussion arises and progresses in parallel with the original one until one of them dies out. It's no big deal. If you want to reply to an old post just quote it.


    I think you just didn't word your post properly. My sarcasm was to show-case that. Not for any other purpose other than that I enjoy sarcasm. And yes, high-jacking can bring life to threads. Unfortunately, I have just repeatedly done what I was berating you for. I.e, high-jacking this thread on a topic i find inordinately important. Esp for us females who are having issues fighting for that freedom. and a small part of is losing the hijab.

    Quote
    Oh come on. Do we have to do this?


    Okay fine. I can be a drama-queen.  Tongue
    Quote
    I really was joking. I know you didn't say that in your mind. Although I have to say that I did not like the tone of your comment. A misunderstanding on my part perhaps but still that's how it came off.


    Not sure what you mean but yeah the tone of my comment was a little biting. sorry...you just provided ample room to bite and I for one can never resist an oppertunity to do so...including ingesting a little venom while i'm at it into the wound. You were not mistaken. It was a mean comment and i feel bad about it but not enough to be sorry. I liked it...mainly because i was being sarchastic.

    I'm really not this mean usually!  cool2
    Now I shall take the dignity I have remaining and stop high-jacking this thread.

    "If intelligence is feminine... I would want that mine would, in a resolute movement, come to resemble an impious woman."
  • Re: Hijab
     Reply #26 - May 20, 2010, 02:52 AM

    you just provided ample room to bite and I for one can never resist an oppertunity to do so


    Is that with regards to IA specifically? So you often get the urge to pounce on him? Like a... tiger on a rabbit?  Tongue

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Hijab
     Reply #27 - May 20, 2010, 02:55 AM

    Why do I get this a lot?  wacko


    I don't think its a bad idea at all. Ill start one. Tomorrow. that is if, Blackdog doesnt beat me to it (he makes like 1 bajillion successful threads).

    No i agree completely. I suppose its been a mixture of seeing this around lately and the fact that I have a bit of  temper that made me take it out on you guys. I don't see a few posts as a big deal and to be honest, I was being half cheeky/half serious in my first post. In my second post, I might have come across as a long-toothed, long-nailed biting cat because I enjoy arguing...and you baited me all too well Tongue

    I think you just didn't word your post properly. My sarcasm was to show-case that. Not for any other purpose other than that I enjoy sarcasm. And yes, high-jacking can bring life to threads. Unfortunately, I have just repeatedly done what I was berating you for. I.e, high-jacking this thread on a topic i find inordinately important. Esp for us females who are having issues fighting for that freedom. and a small part of is losing the hijab.

    Okay fine. I can be a drama-queen.  Tongue
    Not sure what you mean but yeah the tone of my comment was a little biting. sorry...you just provided ample room to bite and I for one can never resist an oppertunity to do so...including ingesting a little venom while i'm at it into the wound. You were not mistaken. It was a mean comment and i feel bad about it but not enough to be sorry. I liked it...mainly because i was being sarchastic.

    I'm really not this mean usually!  cool2
    Now I shall take the dignity I have remaining and stop high-jacking this thread.


    Oh, I see, you were all bad-ass and sarcastic to start off with, then you let IA sweet-talk ya with his smooth, Iraqi cholo ass.

    fuck you
  • Re: Hijab
     Reply #28 - May 20, 2010, 03:04 AM

    OK Ephemeral. I apologize if I came off a bit antagonistic. I most certainly didn't mean it.   Smiley

    Now let's forget about it.  Afro  And from now on I vow to suppress my sexual urges   grin12



    Oh, I see, you were all bad-ass and sarcastic to start off with, then you let IA sweet-talk ya with his smooth, Iraqi cholo ass.

    If you don't know what this drunken interjector is referring to, here is a picture that would explain: (I'm handsome the fella on the right)


  • Re: Hijab
     Reply #29 - May 20, 2010, 03:51 AM

    So... is this a bad time to post a very revealing picture of Konnie Huq?

    Cause.. seriously.. it's revealing.

    Oh and thanks for the shout out Eph.

    To stay within topic, I'm not sure Pariah I think people have mentioned good points. But then, why do you have to pray with hijab as a woman?
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