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Theme Changer

 Topic: Who protected (ALKA'BA)?

 (Read 3814 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Who protected (ALKA'BA)?
     OP - May 20, 2010, 08:33 PM

    It was (AAM ALFEEL) or (Year of the Elephant), it was the same year when The Prophet Muhammad PBUH was born, Abraha of HABASHA (or the Ethiopian) went on an elephant with his army to destroy ALKA'BA to divert the Arab's pilgrimage to his new famous church.
    Abraha had a strong army of forty thousand men, thus, there were only few attempts to avoid him reaching ALKAABA.
    When he reached the  boundary of MAKKAH the elephant refused to enter an sat down, the stories stated that if it was turned to another direction it would walk without hesitation. Then, a specific species of thousands of birds appeared holding stones and the bombarded Abraha and his army and they ran away, and it is said that he died on his way.

    To read the story see this

    The Arabs celebrated that year and named it (Year of the Elephant), Nafil Ibn Habib descried the fact in his poetry saying:


    I thanked ALLAH when I saw birds***And I worried that the stones may fall on us
    All people was asking about Nafil***As if I had a dept to the Ethiopians

    This story was mentioned in the Quraan in SURAT AL FEEL- a Meccian Sura - the time at witch many witnesses of that event were alive (from believers and unbelievers), it can be considered as an evidence showing that the event is true, as if it was a fake or an (historian myth), the unbelievers witnesses could exploit that to show that the Quran is fake, also, the believers witnesses would doubted about the Quraan.

    The question is: Who sent the birds to protect MAKKAH and the KAABA?
    Or there is another explanation for that fact?

    To read SURAT ALFIL

    "I never argued with another person without hoping that Allah swt would let the truth be on his tongue and not my own." Emam ElShafi
  • Re: Who protected (ALKA'BA)?
     Reply #1 - May 20, 2010, 08:58 PM



     piggy



    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Who protected (ALKA'BA)?
     Reply #2 - May 20, 2010, 10:08 PM

    Who said it happened? The Quran?

    ...
  • Re: Who protected (ALKA'BA)?
     Reply #3 - May 20, 2010, 10:13 PM

     lipsrsealed

    And did the Elephant that refused to go towards the kabaa die?
  • Re: Who protected (ALKA'BA)?
     Reply #4 - May 20, 2010, 10:21 PM

    I think the combined impossibility and absurdity of an invasion of elephants in Mecca, and their subsequent repulsion by large birds hurling baked clay bricks, is enough to conclude this discussion.
  • Re: Who protected (ALKA'BA)?
     Reply #5 - May 20, 2010, 11:32 PM

    How did the birds carry the stones? One in each claw? Were they huge birds? Because stones are quite heavy and small birds cannot fly with too much weight.

    How did they throw them so hard so as to kill a human being below? Birds do not have the muscles to throw? And stones would not kill?

    The birds must have been very good marksmen because if not it would have taken thousands and thousands of birds - constantly reloading with more stones and taken a very, very long time.

    Some say the stones were not normal stones but had some magic poison that killed on contact. So if God used magic poison - then why not use magic and just say "Be" and the soldiers would drop down.

    Why this bizarre spectacle of birds throwing stones?

    Finally why protect a "pagan" house from a "Christian" army?

    And why kill all those poor soldiers - what did they do that Muhammad didn't do to the pagans and worse?

    Also why didn't Allah protect his house later when it was attacked, destroyed and rebuilt in Islamic history.

    Finally why doesn't Allah send birds with stones to save Muslims now?

    Even better why doesn't Allah save babies from Earthquakes or children drowning in Tsunamis?

    Are stupid houses in the desert more important?
  • Re: Who protected (ALKA'BA)?
     Reply #6 - May 20, 2010, 11:36 PM

  • Re: Who protected (ALKA'BA)?
     Reply #7 - May 21, 2010, 08:01 AM

    If Allah protected the Ka'ba when Abraha attacked it, why didn't he when Al-Hajjaj bin Yusuf did, or the Qarmatians, or the Grand Mosque Seizure?

    And I'm sure there are other incidents I am unaware of.

    Where was Allah to protect the Ka'ba these times as he did before?

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Who protected (ALKA'BA)?
     Reply #8 - May 21, 2010, 08:03 AM

    , it can be considered as an evidence showing that the event is true, as if it was a fake or an (historian myth), the unbelievers witnesses could exploit that to show that the Quran is fake


    No, it shows only that people BELIEVED it was true, it doesn't prove it was true at all.  Any Muslim who argues this can easily be confronted with the billions of Christians who believe that Jesus died on the cross and was resurrected vs over a billion Muslims who believe he did not die on the cross; they can't both be right.


    The question is: Who sent the birds to protect MAKKAH and the KAABA?
    Or there is another explanation for that fact?


    Answer: Nobody sent the birds, there were no birds, it didn't happen, it is explained easily - it was made up.

    Even the largest birds in the world cannot drop stones large enough to turn people into a substance that resembles chewed grass (as it says in the Quran) - let's be realistic Smiley

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Who protected (ALKA'BA)?
     Reply #9 - May 21, 2010, 08:04 AM

    It's an old arab fairy tale that Muhammad put in the Quran simple as.
  • Re: Who protected (ALKA'BA)?
     Reply #10 - May 21, 2010, 08:28 PM

    How did the birds carry the stones? One in each claw? Were they huge birds? Because stones are quite heavy and small birds cannot fly with too much weight.

    How did they throw them so hard so as to kill a human being below? Birds do not have the muscles to throw? And stones would not kill?

    The birds must have been very good marksmen because if not it would have taken thousands and thousands of birds - constantly reloading with more stones and taken a very, very long time.

    Even the largest birds in the world cannot drop stones large enough to turn people into a substance that resembles chewed grass (as it says in the Quran) - let's be realistic

    The kind of the bird wasn't mentioned, but it isn't impossible to do so.

    For example, eagle devour turtle by carrying it and  throwing it from large distances to crash it's shell (although turtles shell is very hard)....I think that something like this great impulsive force is enough to kill (or at least to harm) a man.

    Also why didn't Allah protect his house later when it was attacked, destroyed and rebuilt in Islamic history.

    If Allah protected the Ka'ba when Abraha attacked it, why didn't he when Al-Hajjaj bin Yusuf did, or the Qarmatians, or the Grand Mosque Seizure?

    And I'm sure there are other incidents I am unaware of.

    Where was Allah to protect the Ka'ba these times as he did before?

    All those attacks were happened ONLY by Muslims, or who belongs to Islam, not by others, and that was predicted:

     It was narrated that Abu Hurayrah that the Prophet peace be upon him said 'pay allegiance to a man between the corner and place, and will not be break the sanctity of this house except his family, if Asthloh do not ask for fatalism Arabs, and then come Abyssinia Vtakrabh havoc not survive after all, they who extracting treasure
    [Narrated to Imam Ahmad]


    It's an old arab fairy tale that Muhammad put in the Quran simple as.

    But it wasn't such old, it was about between 40 and 50 years, and it was described in Nafil Ibn Habib verse (he was one of the Arab leader who tried to defend The Ka'ba against Abraha), the Quran had mebtioned it in front of many witnesses who were alive.

    If I claimed that a specific great event happened in 1960's, how many witnesses of the old generations who live at that time will verify my claim?

    "I never argued with another person without hoping that Allah swt would let the truth be on his tongue and not my own." Emam ElShafi
  • Re: Who protected (ALKA'BA)?
     Reply #11 - May 21, 2010, 08:41 PM

    Every religion has it's fairy tales, and anyone who takes these stories seriously in the 21st century, is only making a fool of themselves.  When you leave Islam, you will look back and laugh at yourself for believing all this nonsense.

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: Who protected (ALKA'BA)?
     Reply #12 - May 21, 2010, 08:46 PM

    Quote
    It was narrated that Abu Hurayrah that the Prophet peace be upon him said 'pay allegiance to a man between the corner and place, and will not be break the sanctity of this house except his family, if Asthloh do not ask for fatalism Arabs, and then come Abyssinia Vtakrabh havoc not survive after all, they who extracting treasure
    [Narrated to Imam Ahmad]


    dude i didn't get this part please  give me a reference thanks
  • Re: Who protected (ALKA'BA)?
     Reply #13 - May 21, 2010, 08:59 PM

    Quote
    dude i didn't get this part please  give me a reference thanks

    The reference is (Mosnad Al Imam Ahmad Hadith number: 8418 )
    I can't find an English translation for this book but you can check that link (in Arabic):
    http://www.islamweb.net/hadith/display_hbook.php?bk_no=121&hid=8418&pid=672357

    "I never argued with another person without hoping that Allah swt would let the truth be on his tongue and not my own." Emam ElShafi
  • Re: Who protected (ALKA'BA)?
     Reply #14 - May 21, 2010, 09:21 PM

    Every religion has it's fairy tales, and anyone who takes these stories seriously in the 21st century, is only making a fool of themselves.  When you leave Islam, you will look back and laugh at yourself for believing all this nonsense.

    Not every unbelievable event is a myth, try checking the truth of the miracle if you are really seeking for the truth...that's why I'm trying to learn about your ideas about some of Islamic matters to know if I have some wrong ideas I can't recognize. 

    "I never argued with another person without hoping that Allah swt would let the truth be on his tongue and not my own." Emam ElShafi
  • Re: Who protected (ALKA'BA)?
     Reply #15 - May 21, 2010, 09:23 PM

    mabbr, so far the only sources for this story are Islamic sources (Quran and Sunnah). You must also remember that history is written by the victors. In this case, the victors are Mohammed and his followers.

    I know someday you'll have a beautiful life, I know you'll be a star
    In somebody else's sky, but why, why, why
    Can't it be, can't it be mine

    https://twitter.com/AlharbiMoe
  • Re: Who protected (ALKA'BA)?
     Reply #16 - May 21, 2010, 09:27 PM

    Not every unbelievable event is a myth, try checking the truth of the miracle if you are really seeking for the truth...that's why I'm trying to learn about your ideas about some of Islamic matters to know if I have some wrong ideas I can't recognize. 


    Why do you think that God no longer performs these astounding miracles any more?
  • Re: Who protected (ALKA'BA)?
     Reply #17 - May 21, 2010, 09:35 PM

    By the way, this is from the Wikipedia link you sent us:
    Quote
    However, historians today believe that this event occurred at least a decade prior to the birth of Muhammad.


    Mohammed just wanted it to happen on his day of birth to be more special, I guess.

    I know someday you'll have a beautiful life, I know you'll be a star
    In somebody else's sky, but why, why, why
    Can't it be, can't it be mine

    https://twitter.com/AlharbiMoe
  • Re: Who protected (ALKA'BA)?
     Reply #18 - May 21, 2010, 09:41 PM

    All those attacks were happened ONLY by Muslims, or who belongs to Islam, not by others, and that was predicted:


    Erm... so?

    That doesn't answer the question why didn't God protect the Ka'ba later?

    Why was it so important to protect it at the time of the Elephant?
  • Re: Who protected (ALKA'BA)?
     Reply #19 - May 21, 2010, 09:50 PM

    Every religion has it's fairy tales, and anyone who takes these stories seriously in the 21st century, is only making a fool of themselves.  When you leave Islam, you will look back and laugh at yourself for believing all this nonsense.

    Not every unbelievable event is a myth, try checking the truth of the miracle if you are really seeking for the truth...that's why I'm trying to learn about your ideas about some of Islamic matters to know if I have some wrong ideas I can't recognize. 

    mabbr,
    Why do you not believe in other religion's fairy tales?  There have been several thousand religions throughout human history, and each religion had it's own superstitions and fairy tales, so would you believe in them too? This elephant story of yours just doesn't provide enough evidence, I'm afraid.

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: Who protected (ALKA'BA)?
     Reply #20 - May 21, 2010, 09:51 PM


    Why didn't Allah protect Mecca in 1979?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Mosque_Seizure


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Who protected (ALKA'BA)?
     Reply #21 - May 21, 2010, 09:53 PM


    I know someday you'll have a beautiful life, I know you'll be a star
    In somebody else's sky, but why, why, why
    Can't it be, can't it be mine

    https://twitter.com/AlharbiMoe
  • Re: Who protected (ALKA'BA)?
     Reply #22 - May 21, 2010, 09:53 PM

    Here's a 10min video for you mabbr:
    Christian Caller: Evidence For Biblical Miracles - The Atheist Experience #609
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euYYA78t-Mo

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
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